Interview Oblivion interview at Games.net

[Tintin]

wow....don't you guys have anything better to do than hold grudges against video game companies...? You didn't like the first game.....so now they're trying to fix the main problems for the second ones....and to me it seems like they're suceeding (combat, npc behaviour, dialogue, landscapes)

Anyways....looking forward to Oblivion.

 

[Vault Dweller]

wow....don't you guys have anything better to do than hold grudges against video game companies...?

Nope.

You didn't like the first game.....so now they're trying to fix the main problems for the second ones....

They are? By dumbing the gameplay down AGAIN?

and to me it seems like they're suceeding (combat, npc behaviour, dialogue, landscapes)

I'm pretty sure that the landscapes will be totally awesome. Not sure about the rest though

 

[Tintin]

They are? By dumbing the gameplay down AGAIN?

Well they are a company, and money is a priority. So they need to be able attract gamers, and having endless hours of exploration just to find a cave isn't helping. But on one side of this forum, I see people going "Morrowind went like this walk walk walk walk" and then on the other side there's people saying Morrowind is dumbing it down. Choose one stance!

But yes, they are improving it. Here are the complaints I see on this board:

boring, static NPCs = Radiant AI and NPC movement
boring landscapes = realistic landscape generation
click combat = more complex combat
too much walking = travel options for places you've already visited
crappy dialogue = fully voiced, unscripted dialogue

Not sure about the rest though

Do explain. Which part, fully voiced unscripted dialogues, self powered NPC behaviour, NPC with NPC interaction, no more clickfest combat?

 

[Diogo Ribeiro]

Call me Amnesia-Boy-On-A-Stick, but I don't recall many complaints about Morrowind's boring landscape that could be solved with Oblivion's 'realistic' landscape generation. I say this because most complaints I remember veered towards the landscapes being boring in regards to exploration (same tombs and caves, rarely ever something to rave about aside the occasional Daedric ruins) and their overal feeling of empty, which I don't see how advanced erosion models will solve - especially considering MrSmileyFaceDude's exposition on the matter when he said that realistic as it may be, Oblivion's landscape will always be, if I recall correctly, the same for every player.

 

[Naked_Lunch]

crappy dialogue = fully voiced, unscripted dialogue

Wow, the dialouge's randomly generated? Man, I knew they were talking about topping Daggerfall, but oh man!

 

[Sol Invictus]

Well the dialogue in Oblivion won't be unscripted, at least not with the main characters and such, but I assume that there will be some degree of unscriptedness (based on the RadiantAI really) with some of the other NPCs. Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Claw]

You didn't like the first game.....so now they're trying to fix the main problems for the second ones....

By "first" you mean the third, right?

But on one side of this forum, I see people going "Morrowind went like this walk walk walk walk" and then on the other side there's people saying Morrowind is dumbing it down.

Which two sides? What IS the "walk walk walk walk" side anyway? Sounds pretty dumb to me, so how is the "dumbing down" side different?

boring, static NPCs = Radiant AI and NPC movement
boring landscapes = realistic landscape generation
click combat = more complex combat
too much walking = travel options for places you've already visited
crappy dialogue = fully voiced, unscripted dialogue

boring NPCs: Maybe Rad AI makes NPCs more interesting, but it really wasn't necessary. I know at least five games with more interesting NPCs that still used "boring" scripts.
boring landscapes: The towns were worse, as far as aesthetics go. And also, I know two games with more interesting landscape, without fancy lanscape generation. It's a matter of design, not realism.
click combat: Hell, this needs to be improved just to be bad! At least any change is bound to make it better.
too much walking: since that was based on the ridiculous scaling of the gameworld, there should be fast travel within towns. Or even better, they should fix the scale.
crappy dialogue: A pity the problem was neither the lack of voice (although I do consider that a quality) nor the fact that it was scripted. What kind of dialogue are you talking about anyway?

In case you wonder what my point is: I am questioning whether they are fixing the things that actually need it.
Except in the case of combat, but even in that case one might question whether they are fixing the problem or just changing it. I don't complain, though.

 

[Tintin]

By "first" you mean the third, right?

No I mean the first in our comparison - Morrowind & Oblivion.

Which two sides? What IS the "walk walk walk walk" side anyway? Sounds pretty dumb to me, so how is the "dumbing down" side different?

Right I misworded that. I meant there are people complaining Morrowind had too much repetitive walking and searching hence "walk walk walk walk". So Oblivion will have fast travel to visited areas and a compass to help those people. So then, people start saying Oblivion is "dumbing down" as mentioned above.

The towns were worse, as far as aesthetics go.

Please explain. The first time I played Morrowind, back when, I thought the towns were very well done in their style.

I know at least five games with more interesting NPCs that still used "boring" scripts.

Gasp! You know five games with more interesting NPCs than Oblivion..without...even....playing Oblivion!?

the ridiculous scaling of the gameworld

So you just didn't like the fact that Morrowind was huge and wasn't one pathway leading into a town which led straight into another pathway, etc? It may surprise you, but most of the appeal of TES is that it has a huge, open ended gameworld.

I am questioning whether they are fixing the things that actually need it.

Right, so why don't you just tell us what, in you're opinion, needs to be fixed, but apparently is not being done in Oblivion?[/b]

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

boring, static NPCs = Radiant AI and NPC movement

Having the NPCs go do laundry and then go to bed won't make them any more interesting. It just means you get to walk walk walk walk around and find them because they don't sit still.

boring landscapes = realistic landscape generation

The landscapes in Morrowind weren't boring because the trees didn't have realistic fractal leaf generation or super duper erosion modelling. They were boring because there was only so much to do while you're out there.

click combat = more complex combat

This kind of depends on how it's done. Gothic's combat was more complex, but I wouldn't call it "better".

too much walking = travel options for places you've already visited

I like this feature. World maps are wonderful things.

crappy dialogue = fully voiced, unscripted dialogue

Uh.. They're scripted. You can't have "fully voiced" dialogue without a script.

 

[bryce777]

Tintin, Daggerfall had a travel map, so they are just reversing some of their stupidity. They also have some weird compass pointer thing that seems kind of lame, though.

As someone pointed out the boring thing about the landscapes is that there is nothing to do. I do not buy a game to look at the scenery! Maybe a nature photoshoot game appeals to someone, but not me...I would just go outside if I wanted realistic scenery!

Morrowind's towns were not that great looking from an artistic standpoint, though really I dont care. For good artistic styling you have games like fallout that looked great with very very lowtech engines, but a high tech engine still looks like shit if the artwork is shit.

Morrowinf moreover had totally crazy problems like you sell some stupid item and then have no idea where the fuck it is when you find out you actually need it.

As for combat...so what? So sometimes I will right click instead. The combat will still be overall boring. There is no way to make first person hth combat all that interesting without turning it into a full fledged video game that I can think of....

The basic idea though is that they have made progressively crappier, dumbed down games with every iteration. Maybe they will turn it around this time, but I am not hopeful, and all the features in the world aren't going to save it if they find just one way to make it fail.

 

[kris]

Well, at least the environments in Fallout 3 are going to... ummm... erode properly or something. God knows how long I've waited for soil erosion to be properly implemented in an RPG.

I think the best would be if the enviroments where radiated properly.

 

[crpgnut]

Ha! Good one, kris

Oblivion has Radiant AI

Fallout 3 has Radiated AI

:D

 

[Vault Dweller]

They are? By dumbing the gameplay down AGAIN?

Well they are a company, and money is a priority. So they need to be able attract gamers...

By dumbing the gameplay down again.

But on one side of this forum, I see people going "Morrowind went like this walk walk walk walk" and then on the other side there's people saying Morrowind is dumbing it down. Choose one stance!

I see that you, sir, represent the perfect target audience.

boring, static NPCs = Radiant AI and NPC movement

boring landscapes = realistic landscape generation

I believe it's already been addressed, so I'll just quote what Saint said "Having the NPCs go do laundry and then go to bed won't make them any more interesting." and "The landscapes in Morrowind weren't boring because the trees didn't have realistic fractal leaf generation or super duper erosion modelling. They were boring because there was only so much to do while you're out there."

click combat = more complex combat

More complex? Don't you mean more twitchy?

too much walking = travel options for places you've already visited

Wow, innovashun straight from Daggerfall plus the magick arrow that always points to the direction of a quest. Besides, this feature alone, no matter how handy, isn't enough to improve the game

crappy dialogue = fully voiced, unscripted dialogue

Do you pay attention to what you type?

Do explain. Which part, fully voiced unscripted dialogues, self powered NPC behaviour, NPC with NPC interaction, no more clickfest combat?

All of them. Dialogues still suck judging by the single screen released so far. Nobody gives a fuck about smart NPCs tending to their business, and the combat isn't very impressive for an RPG.

 

[Tintin]

I believe it's already been addressed, so I'll just quote what Saint said "Having the NPCs go do laundry and then go to bed won't make them any more interesting."

If you want to say, it's not as interesting as "insert game here", go ahead. But I know for a fact, that walking down a town and seeing two villagers talking with each other, and another hurrying off to the tavern, will be more interesting to play in than NPCs standing still for 500 hours. It's an outright lie to say it won't make them more interesting, and you know it.

More complex? Don't you mean more twitchy?

Right, so what do you want? Stopping time, so you can click "Attack -> Magicka -> Super Fireball X2 Attack" and watch a little cutscene?

Nobody gives a fuck about smart NPCs tending to their business

No, you don't(and maybe some of your codex army). Lots of others do.

 

[Naked_Lunch]

No, you don't(and maybe some of your codex army). Lots of others do.

Lots of people helped Hitler kill all the jews, that doesn't make it a good thing.

People ranted on and on about how Ultima VII had the schedules, and shit, but you know what really made the game? The fact that it had an immense, and (this is the part morrowind fans have trouble with) INTERESTING world, and MEMORABLE NPCs with GOOD DIALOUGE. If your game doesn't have that, than let's face it, NPC schedules don't mean shit do they?

 

[Vault Dweller]

If you want to say, it's not as interesting as "insert game here", go ahead. But I know for a fact, that walking down a town and seeing two villagers talking with each other, and another hurrying off to the tavern, will be more interesting to play in than NPCs standing still for 500 hours. It's an outright lie to say it won't make them more interesting, and you know it.

No, I don't. It makes the game a bit better overall, but hardly more interesting. Yes, I'm sure that when you walk into a busy town and see all those people doing something for the FIRST TIME, it's gonna look great. When you discover that the gameplay lacks substance and all you can do is to explore and watch townfolks running around, it's gonna be as boring as looking at standing still cardboard NPCs.

Right, so what do you want? Stopping time, so you can click "Attack -> Magicka -> Super Fireball X2 Attack" and watch a little cutscene?

That's the best you can come up with?

Nobody gives a fuck about smart NPCs tending to their business

No, you don't(and maybe some of your codex army). Lots of others do.

I know. Bethesda's figured out that morons represent the largest market and I'm sure that Oblivion will be very successful.

 

[Tintin]

No, I don't. It makes the game a bit better overall, but hardly more interesting. Yes, I'm sure that when you walk into a busy town and see all those people doing something for the FIRST TIME, it's gonna look great. When you discover that the gameplay lacks substance and all you can do is to explore and watch townfolks running around, it's gonna be as boring as looking at standing still cardboard NPCs.

You know what's funny. Right in the other morrowind-related thread, just as you were typing this, someone else typed:

We trash it because its combat sucked, the world was empty, and every NPC was an encyclopedia nailed to the ground

Apparently some people didn't like it because NPC's were standing still, eh?

The thing is, how do you know the gameplay will lack substance? Have they said in an interview "Oh, we plan to make gameplay identical to Morrowind?". Why do you have all this bashing of a game that's not even out yet? You can't even give it a chance?

That's the best you can come up with?

Yes, by your views. Why don't you tell everyone what your ideal combat system is?

Bethesda's figured out that morons represent the largest market and I'm sure that Oblivion will be very successful.

Right, everyone else except you and your friends are morons, and Bethesda should just stop and make a game which will sell 45 copies to RPGCodex.

 

[Spazmo]

The thing is, how do you know the gameplay will lack substance? Have they said in an interview "Oh, we plan to make gameplay identical to Morrowind?". Why do you have all this bashing of a game that's not even out yet? You can't even give it a chance?

This is what I find interesting. Bethesda puts out three games--Arena, Daggerfall and Morrowind--that all were crap and were all huge successes (this is not the contradiction it sounds like; one seems to require the other for an RPG to be successful) and now I'm supposed to expect Oblivion to not be complete shit? Yeah, they'll make minor improvements to a handful of things in the game, but at the core, it'll still be the same shitty game, because why would they completely change a forumla that's worked so well in the past?

 

[Tintin]

This is what I find interesting. Bethesda puts out three games--Arena, Daggerfall and Morrowind--that all were crap and were all huge successes (this is not the contradiction it sounds like; one seems to require the other for an RPG to be successful) and now I'm supposed to expect Oblivion to not be complete shit?

No, you don't have to, because shit doesn't sell. Shit doesn't become successful. It's a proven formula. You should realize just because they don't cater to your ultra-specific hardcore fanatic needs, it doesn't mean they suck.

The basic argument I see repeated here is this: You guys are the only ones who know what a good game is, the entire rest of the gaming world are morons.

 

[Spazmo]

No, you don't have to, because shit doesn't sell. Shit doesn't become successful. It's a proven formula.

Oh? Then explain NWN. Explain Dungeon Siege. Explain KOTOR2. Explain Fable. All games ranging from mediocre to bad and yet hugely successful in sales. Such is the nature of today's bizarro world RPG industry.

 

[Vault Dweller]

We trash it because its combat sucked, the world was empty, and every NPC was an encyclopedia nailed to the ground

Apparently some people didn't like it because NPC's were standing still, eh?

No, the key word is "encyclopedia"

The thing is, how do you know the gameplay will lack substance?

I know how to read?

Have they said in an interview "Oh, we plan to make gameplay identical to Morrowind?".

No, they said we are going to make it even simplier, because, apparently, some morons weren't stupid enough and still had difficulties playing the game.

Why do you have all this bashing of a game that's not even out yet? You can't even give it a chance?

My favourite argument. We heard it so many times before: giev FOBOS teh chance! U can't say it's shit because u didn't play teh gaem yet!!!!
Riiight.

Yes, by your views. Why don't you tell everyone what your ideal combat system is?

It's not about MY ideal combat, it's about the fact that MW's combat sucked and Oblivion's combat doesn't look much better. Different, but not better. Time will tell.

Right, everyone else except you and your friends are morons, and Bethesda should just stop and make a game which will sell 45 copies to RPGCodex.

Well, when you compare the features of Daggerfall to those of Morrowind, and MW's to Oblivion's you see a clear trend. So, while everyone else is masturbating looking at teh shiny graphics, we look at the gameplay features. While you know that the gameplay will be totally awesome because, like, what else could it be, we read the interview and previews. See my point?

 

[whitemithrandir]

Well, we never claimed that terrain generation and automated region population were new ideas -- just that we're using them so that we can produce a more natural looking world (that's larger than Morrowind's land mass) without having to place everything by hand. Yeah, it definitely would have been nice to have it for Morrowind.

And yes, the region editor & terrain generator tools come with the PC version of Oblivion. They're all part of the Elder Scrolls Construction Set.

Is it hard to use? Would I be required to know all sorts of scripting jargon to make, say, a lush forest? Or is it fairly user friendly?

 

[Claw]

Gasp! You know five games with more interesting NPCs than Oblivion..without...even....playing Oblivion!?

At least try.

It may surprise you, but most of the appeal of TES is that it has a huge, open ended gameworld.

Ot may surprise you, but scale isn't the same as size.

Right, so why don't you just tell us what, in you're opinion, needs to be fixed, but apparently is not being done in Oblivion?[/b]

I am not sayng it's not being fixed, I am saying there is no evidence of it.
AI isn't the solution to boring NPCs, realistic landscape generators aren't the solution to boring landscapes, fully voiced dialogue isn't the solution to crappy dialogue. Is that so difficult to understand?

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

Oh? Then explain NWN. Explain Dungeon Siege. Explain KOTOR2. Explain Fable. All games ranging from mediocre to bad and yet hugely successful in sales. Such is the nature of today's bizarro world RPG industry.

Explain Enter the Matrix. Explain Black & White. Explain Driv3r. It's not just the RPG industry.

 

[DarkUnderlord]

Right, everyone else except you and your friends are morons, and Bethesda should just stop and make a game which will sell 45 copies to RPGCodex.

The basic argument I see repeated here is this: You guys are the only ones who know what a good game is, the entire rest of the gaming world are morons.

I think he gets it! I think he gets it!