Game News Oblivion mage quests (highly intricate stuff)

[kris]

Agreed! But raise your hand if you'd pay $60 for ASCII graphics with those options, or Ultima IV at best...not saying that's an excuse.

Personally, I didn't think the quests were *THAT* bad.

But why go over board? Graphics for me is functional. Using ASCII graphics as a counterexample is just silly (like all these complaints about "erosion"). I find complaints about to much focus on graphics to be perfectly valid though since it takes a lot of resources/finance to implement. But that is just my opinion on that...

 

[Vault Dweller]

VD, you can't see someone who is invisible. It's impossible.

I'm talking about sensing, like Darth Vader sensed Obi-Wan when he was close in Ep 4. My point is, a mage should be able to feel those things, to feel a presence, to feel an active spell, etc. It doesn't make sense otherwise. If invisibility was undetectable, that would make it the most powerful spell, and change the security concept of that fantasy world, creating either dispel spells or even simple measures like sand floors that would show footprints, etc.

I'm not saying that everyone should be a able to detect an invisible guy, but a head mage should.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Ah, I think I see. For each quest then there should be multiple ways of solving it for each class using that class' strengths.

Not only that, but moral choices too.

Would this just be for the major classes, thief, mage and warrior or should it be for many of the custom classes too?

You should be able to play the game in a manner fitting your character. If a game has 3 classes, then at least 3 ways (plus moral choices). If a game has 5, then 5. If a game has a custom class option, then that should be considered too.

I imagine that could get quite complicated if you go beyond the major classes.

Not at all.

I guess you consider it unacceptable that it appears Bethesda handles this by having multiple class specific quest lines (Mage's Guild, Thief's Guild, ect) instead of having that diversity for each and every quest.

I consider it boring. Btw, there are no class-specific ways as, I hope, you can clearly see. Do you think that a non-mage can do the Mage quests? Or can a mage do that "kill the lions and talk to the neighbour" Fighter quest? That's the answer to your question.

I can see it would be more fun to have that diversity for each and every quest, but that it would take an awful lot of time to do so on the scale of a game like Morrowind.

Have you played Arcanum? A game as huge as MW made in less time by a smaller team.

 

[bryce777]

"You should be able to play the game in a manner fitting your character. If a game has 3 classes, then at least 3 ways (plus moral choices). If a game has 5, then 5. If a game has a custom class option, then that should be considered too. " Then you are not only coming up with a formula, but you will be trying to hammer solutions that don't make a lot of sense into the problems at hand.

It doesn't always make sense to sneak, or make sense to fight, or make sense to have some magical solution.

It would be nice if even as a fighter if you always went with the frontal assualt you would get brutally slaughtered, though.

 

[Vault Dweller]

It doesn't always make sense to sneak, or make sense to fight, or make sense to have some magical solution.

Directly? No.

Using that old gate example, let's say you have a well guarded gate and sneaking past guards doesn't make a lot of sense. You can find out who has a pass and steal it. The point is you don't have apply your skills directly to the exact problem, but if you look at the bigger picture - correction: if a game allows you to look at a bigger picture - then you can always find something that YOU can do.

 

[Solik]

Well, I'm happy to hear about those quests. I think they sound great, once I look past the rather suspect presentation from whoever wrote the information about the quests (an individual like that would probably do a pretty good job making your favorite game sound like kiddie trash). I'm not too worried about them not making complete sense; all I care about is that they're more fun and interactive than collect flowers and deliver items quests. And it sounds like they are, by far. It's also unknown whether or not there were multiple ways to solve any of those quests. All we know is how that guy did it.

Also, don't listen to these guys. Darklands is trash.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Also, don't listen to these guys. Darklands is trash.

Care to elaborate?

 

[Solik]

I did before in another thread where it was more on-topic, but since you asked...

Lack of journals of any kind made keeping up with the objectives of your current quest unwieldy at best (you basically had to write things down every time, which isn't generally a good thing when playing a video game). Excusable long ago due to technology restraints (yes, I remember the Gold Box journal entries), but if you're advising a person today to go back and play it...

Combat was extremely unresponsive and tactically simplistic. As with most of the "classic"-era games, your fate was either sealed before you got into battle, or was entirely at the mercy of the RNG. Characters ignoring your input and difficult-to-control scrolling certainly didn't help matters.

Navigation in towns was a lot more annoying than it needed to be. Dialogue trees for movement is a somewhat interesting idea, but Darklands implemented it badly.

I liked the game's concept, the way you could do things like hole up in an abandoned building or sleep in a park but suffer a fame hit for it, but the presentation and interface were seriously lacking, even by yesteryear's standards. Even saving was a chore. And let's not even get into the myriad of bugs and problems that plagued the game even beyond its final patch.

 

[Vault Dweller]

I see. Without disputing your points, the game is trash, because it doesn't have a journal, has simplistic combat, and interface & navigation you didn't approve of.

Very interesting game evaluation system you've got there. Let me try it: MW is trash. Why? Well, it has a crappy journal, simplistic clickety-click combat, and console interface. Yes, definitely trash. More reviews coming.

 

[Solik]

What did you expect? I gave my opinion and a few reasons for it. Frustrating interfaces, for me, can ruin the best of games. I'm not writing a professional review here.

 

[TotS]

Well, this invisibility thingy struck me as odd.

Let's say you are forming a Mages Guild and possess some arcane treasures (books, whatever) or at least some cash box and you know that anybody else can learn invisibility spells... why don't you take fucking countermeasures to prevent them from looting your god damn guild house?

 

[Vault Dweller]

@ Solik:
I expected something about role-playing qualities of the game, what's with this being the Codex and all, and considering the reasons for recommending this game to that new fella.

Also, I hope that my MW example made it clear why you've failed to explain why the game is trash.

 

[Rendelius]

I see. Without disputing your points, the game is trash, because it doesn't have a journal, has simplistic combat, and interface & navigation you didn't approve of.

Very interesting game evaluation system you've got there. Let me try it: MW is trash. Why? Well, it has a crappy journal, simplistic clickety-click combat, and console interface. Yes, definitely trash. More reviews coming.

Well, it's about the same evaluation system you use for TES games *g*

 

[Rendelius]

Well, this invisibility thingy struck me as odd.

Let's say you are forming a Mages Guild and possess some arcane treasures (books, whatever) or at least some cash box and you know that anybody else can learn invisibility spells... why don't you take fucking countermeasures to prevent them from looting your god damn guild house?

Have you ever thought about the oddity of "boots of perception" or a "girdle of berserk strength"?

 

[Solik]

It didn't. If those things are game-breakers for you, then it's a perfectly valid set of reasons.

The role-playing qualities appeared fair enough. That's just not enough by itself to make a game good.

 

[Vault Dweller]

@ Rendelius

Not really. I liked Arena, was really impressed with Daggerfall, disappointed with Morrowind (without ever calling it trash or anything overly dramatic), and not excited about Oblivion, but I'll give it a try.

 

[Vault Dweller]

The role-playing qualities appeared fair enough. That's just not enough by itself to make a game good.

Depends on what you are looking for in a game, doesn't it?

 

[TotS]

Well, this invisibility thingy struck me as odd.

Let's say you are forming a Mages Guild and possess some arcane treasures (books, whatever) or at least some cash box and you know that anybody else can learn invisibility spells... why don't you take fucking countermeasures to prevent them from looting your god damn guild house?

Have you ever thought about the oddity of "boots of perception" or a "girdle of berserk strength"?

Yup, although those, if you're seeing them merely as a vessel of their magic powers, do make some kind of sense.
Nevertheless I prefer boots of escaping and girdles of femininity/masculinity :wink:

 

[Elwro]

But really, if there exists an invisibility spell, then designing a method of detecting invisibilty should be the top priority of the Mage's Guild, sponsored by the Emperor with all resources he has. It'd be very strange if there was no detection method possible.

 

[Proweler]

But really, if there exists an invisibility spell, then designing a method of detecting invisibilty should be the top priority of the Mage's Guild, sponsored by the Emperor with all resources he has. It'd be very strange if there was no detection method possible.

It's probably as difficult and expensive as trying to shoot down cruise missiles with a laser beam from space. To make things worse, when a pupil goes missing you don't expect a prank, like this so you don't bother to check for invisable persons.

 

[Vault Dweller]

But really, if there exists an invisibility spell, then designing a method of detecting invisibilty should be the top priority of the Mage's Guild, sponsored by the Emperor with all resources he has. It'd be very strange if there was no detection method possible.

It's probably as difficult and expensive as trying to shoot down cruise missiles with a laser beam from space.

Sand floors / powder dispensers. Simple as that.

 

[Proweler]

But really, if there exists an invisibility spell, then designing a method of detecting invisibilty should be the top priority of the Mage's Guild, sponsored by the Emperor with all resources he has. It'd be very strange if there was no detection method possible.

It's probably as difficult and expensive as trying to shoot down cruise missiles with a laser beam from space.

Sand floors / powder dispensers. Simple as that.

Powder and sand don't work for high traffic locations like a guild hall. A vault perhaps.

Even then Levitate or feather (so you are weightless) and more Illusion could void that. Even better, paralise a gaurd and turn him invisable then take his place.

The thing is, when a pupil goes missing you don't expect a prank, like this so you don't bother to check for invisable persons.

edit:

What would work would be a constant blast of dispell magic.Even when resisted, absorb or reflected it leaves a visable effect.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Powder and sand don't work for high traffic locations like a guild hall. A vault perhaps.

Fine powder randomly dispensed in the air will outline any invisible creature.

The thing is, when a pupil goes missing you don't expect a prank, like this so you don't bother to check for invisable persons.

If a student goes missing, won't school authorities comb the school first?

 

[Proweler]

Powder and sand don't work for high traffic locations like a guild hall. A vault perhaps.

Fine powder randomly dispensed in the air will outline any invisible creature.

Thats were illusion comes in to play again. Hide the outline, make it apear as if the dust goes through.

The thing is, when a pupil goes missing you don't expect a prank, like this so you don't bother to check for invisable persons.

If a student goes missing, won't school authorities comb the school first?

[/quote]

Naturally but they won't check for invisable persons because they don't know or suspect. Perhaps now they will but there has to be a first time for every prank.

What you really should bother to comment on is that this invisability thing has been done time and time again. It's the boring idea in another jacket.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Powder and sand don't work for high traffic locations like a guild hall. A vault perhaps.

Fine powder randomly dispensed in the air will outline any invisible creature.

Thats were illusion comes in to play again. Hide the outline, make it apear as if the dust goes through.

I assume that such spell casting would be visible and attract even more attention.

Naturally but they won't check for invisable persons because they don't know or suspect. Perhaps now they will but there has to be a first time for every prank.

Considering that it's an old spell, I doubt it's the first time they've heard of someone fooling around with it.

What you really should bother to comment on is that this invisability thing has been done time and time again. It's the boring idea in another jacket.

There is so much to comment on when each new Bethesda design element is revealed, it's hard to mention everything.