Preview Oblivion preview at Gaming Target

[LlamaGod]

If an RPG has the most boring, and atrocious combat a developer can muster, it will be heralded as the best RPG ever made. See: Arcanum.

Yeah, because the very deep roleplaying options, multiple quest paths, character dialogs and journals, setting, storyline with multiple twists and paths to do them and the combination of all that certainly isnt the reason why people call it a great RPG.

Obviously they are confused by calling a game that offers all things roleplaying (and offers them greatly) an RPG because it has alame combat. I mean, the combat is like point and click and you just fight the same type of monsters just colored differently over and over, Diablo is obviously above this.



God, you're such an idiot, you didnt even play past Tarant anyways so you have no idea about any of the content in the game. You probably ran through the first town, off to Tarant and then went back to playing some shitty Blizzard game.

 

[Vault Dweller]

This is one thing that sounds neat in (oh god admin incest) Age of Decadence. VD has each type of weapon doing some special thing. For example, spears are good for reach and daggers... do... something (sorry, VD, can't remember). But basically, daggers can do something that swords can't, which makes them more than just small swords with shitty damage values that nobody will ever use. This is a good idea, IMO.

Thanks.

 

[LlamaGod]

hopefully it has a 2D graphics option because the old 2D graphics were NICE AND GOOD AND PRETTY instead of the shitty looking 3D stuff.

It's like Descent all over again or something.

 

[triCritical]

Bethesda prepares to unleash the most intense and detailed RPG ever with The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion.

So detailed they didnt put in crossbows, axes, etc.

graphics != detail

Axes are there, the only thing missing is the Axe skill. Proficiency with axes is determined by, you've guessed it, your Blunt skill.

That really pisses me off. I don't by this magic number 3 * 7 = 21 shit. If they would have used there brain they would have redefined fighting skills to be more meaningful to encompassing a variety of different weapons. In other words, include fencing, defensive tactical fighting, such as men at arms in infantry, polearms and crowd control and shit like that. But instead they just included the same system and dumbed it down even more.

I still think Daggerfall, had a much better system then ES3, and it looks like they are continually moving away from that.

 

[Chefe]

hopefully it has a 2D graphics option because the old 2D graphics were NICE AND GOOD AND PRETTY instead of the shitty looking 3D stuff.

It's like Descent all over again or something.

The 3D doesn't look bad, IMO. I like it.

 

[Chefe]

I still think Daggerfall, had a much better system then ES3, and it looks like they are continually moving away from that.

It's funny, thinking back to when I first heard about this game some of the thoughts that were going through my head.

"Will they bring back the advantages/disadvantages and get rid of those stupid birthsigns?"
"Will they bring back custom-generated backgrounds?"
"Will they bring back Daggerfall's distinct, many, and different skills?"
"Will they bring back the languages and improve on them?"
"Will they allow you to be a diplomat or trader?"
"Will they split up the Nine Divines factions and make each one seperate again?"
"Will they finally ditch the Wiki and implement some real dialogue?"

Ha, it's amazing how exicted I used to be about this game.

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

I don't think anyone denies that Arcanum's combat was found wanting. It just came with a big world, lots of ways to create custom characters, nonlinear gameplay, and one of the more unique worlds in gaming.

Arcanum was very linear.

 

[aboyd]

Arcanum was very linear.

I'll buy that, but only in the same way that BG2 was very linear. In other words, both games funnel you toward an end-game without much variance. However, both offer -- at least during the first half -- a host of side quests and subplots that cannot all be had or seen in a single game.

So yeah, one big main thread. But there were branches you could wander down. My 4th time through Arcanum, I played a female, and was surprised to get a quest involving whoring myself out to some sleazebag. Never got that before. In BG2, there were strongholds and such that could only be attained if you were of a certain class, and each came with a number of quests around it. I've never seen all the quests in either game, and I've never felt unduly locked into a linear path.

I could stand to have more "linear" games like that.

 

[triCritical]

I still think Daggerfall, had a much better system then ES3, and it looks like they are continually moving away from that.

It's funny, thinking back to when I first heard about this game some of the thoughts that were going through my head.

"Will they bring back the advantages/disadvantages and get rid of those stupid birthsigns?"
"Will they bring back custom-generated backgrounds?"
"Will they bring back Daggerfall's distinct, many, and different skills?"
"Will they bring back the languages and improve on them?"
"Will they allow you to be a diplomat or trader?"
"Will they split up the Nine Divines factions and make each one seperate again?"
"Will they finally ditch the Wiki and implement some real dialogue?"

Ha, it's amazing how exicted I used to be about this game.

I don't get it, anyone sane person looking at the facts has to ask themselves what makes for a better CRPG. I understand that DF had bugs, but despite those bugs it was one of the best CRPG's of all time. Now all developers want to take what is good from the previous game, and MW brought an incredible immersive experience, well despite the dialogue, but I am forgiving and have learned to use my imagination. Take that immersive level, MW's sim's in fantasy world attitude and add it more of a daggerfall type mechanics and you got yourself something better then DF and MW. This looks to be a more solid, compacted adventure game with some stat based dialogue, quest and combat.

Still I am looking forward to this game, because I a stupid sheep that knows no better, and am just looking for a solid 3D rpg, that is very immersive. BTW, they are going to have 3rd person view right? Because combat in ES3 was absymal without it.

 

[triCritical]

Arcanum was very linear.

I don't think so. Dungeon Siege is very linear. PST is hub based and then very linear. BG is sort of linear that turns into VERY linear.

Arcanum OTOH, has a linear story line riddled with choices leading to very non-linear ways of handling things. And there is a lot of side quest, which make you follow a linear path, but choices are abundant there too. I think Arcanum's issue with linearity are the big hack and slash dungeons. Forcing combat upon characters that neither have good personality to aqcuire henchmen, or good combat skills.

 

[triCritical]

Arcanum was very linear.

I'll buy that, but only in the same way that BG2 was very linear. In other words, both games funnel you toward an end-game without much variance. However, both offer -- at least during the first half -- a host of side quests and subplots that cannot all be had or seen in a single game.

Arcanum is very different then BG2. BG2 locks you one city with the only certain quest turned on. Small quest, class quest and main quest all pertaining to your level. Arcanum, lets you at half of the world, with complete freedom to go where ever you want. Of course like FO you will have to find information before you have the knowledge of getting there.

Not only that there is only one way to solve quest in BG2, sometime with the ability to do things in an evil way or in a good way. This however, has nothing to do with roleplaying and could easily be integrated into a motorcycle racing game. Good Job Bioware... Arcanum on the other hand has a lot of quest, which can be solved in the fashion of your characters strengths. ie. combat, diplomacy, or the black arts. Mainly however, its just dialogue and combat. However Arcanum still made you go through those horrid dungeons.

 

[Chefe]

I don't get it, anyone sane person looking at the facts has to ask themselves what makes for a better CRPG. I understand that DF had bugs, but despite those bugs it was one of the best CRPG's of all time. Now all developers want to take what is good from the previous game, and MW brought an incredible immersive experience, well despite the dialogue, but I am forgiving and have learned to use my imagination. Take that immersive level, MW's sim's in fantasy world attitude and add it more of a daggerfall type mechanics and you got yourself something better then DF and MW. This looks to be a more solid, compacted adventure game with some stat based dialogue, quest and combat.

Please, tell me, what mechanics exactly are they bringing back from Daggerfall?

Still I am looking forward to this game, because I a stupid sheep that knows no better, and am just looking for a solid 3D rpg, that is very immersive. BTW, they are going to have 3rd person view right? Because combat in ES3 was absymal without it.

Yes, they are going to have 3rd person perspective.

 

[Elwro]

As for Axes governed by Blunt skill: we know that you gain a special move for every 25 points of the skill. I suspect that the Powah Attacque No 3 will look differently depending from the weapon you're wielding. I think it'll at least give you the illusion that fighting using an axe utilises different skills than fighting while wielding a hammer.

 

[Balor]

Well, actually, while there are sertain differences between handling an axe and a mace, they are indeed quite close in handling... and when it comes to subtleties, it will be rinda hard to develop those anyway.
On the other hand, daggers and shortswords are, indeed, VERY different in handling, cause former are mostly thrusting weapons, and latter - swinging (and, something, not even thrusting at all, like some broadswords didnt' have it's tiips sharpened!).
I wonder if we'll be able to fix that in CS...
In Morrowind, you could not 'legally' make new skills and spell effects. I wonder if that would be fixed in Oblivion... for some reason (based on inadequate, or, I'd say awful modding community support Bethsoft has, while claiming otherwise) I'm being skeptical about that.

 

[Chefe]

Maybe all the axes in the game are, in fact, "blunted"... or, you might be swinging with the backend of the axe instead of with the sharpened blade.

I can't wait to find out!

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

Arcanum OTOH, has a linear story line riddled with choices leading to very non-linear ways of handling things. And there is a lot of side quest, which make you follow a linear path, but choices are abundant there too. I think Arcanum's issue with linearity are the big hack and slash dungeons. Forcing combat upon characters that neither have good personality to aqcuire henchmen, or good combat skills.

Arcanum just didn't have the cutscenes for chapters like BG2, PS:T, etc. did. You do have the freedom to roam around, however you do have a set plotline with Hoop A, Hoop B, Hoop C, and so on that you do have to jump through in a set order to complete the game. You have to go do the Iron Wheel Clan mine, get to the Isle of Despair, do the Black Mountain Clan dealie with the goggles you got from the IoD, you have to go through the icy pass where the blue bunny is, and so on.. You have to do all those in order. None of those things is optional and can be done out of order.

Side quests don't make a game any less linear. They just give the player things to do to break up the monotiny of hoop jumping through the main story.

 

[Jora]

you have to go through the icy pass where the blue bunny is.

It's possible to get to the other side of the Stonewall mountains without going through that pass. Although it doesn't make the game any less linear. Has anyone tried to go to the Vendigroth Ruins before the story requires you to?

 

[Elwro]

Has anyone tried to go to the Vendigroth Ruins before the story requires you to?

Yeah. I tried, but I couldn't.

And I found a halfling in the cellars beneath the arena in one of the southern cities. Iirc it seemed like he would give me the Vendigroth location if I were evil, but I was unable to force him to do it.

 

[Naked_Lunch]

Yes, he's in Dernholme. If you align yourself with the Dark Elves, they send you to him (as opposed to finding Nasrudin) to gather information related to the Vendigroth ruins and such.

 

[triCritical]

I don't get it, anyone sane person looking at the facts has to ask themselves what makes for a better CRPG. I understand that DF had bugs, but despite those bugs it was one of the best CRPG's of all time. Now all developers want to take what is good from the previous game, and MW brought an incredible immersive experience, well despite the dialogue, but I am forgiving and have learned to use my imagination. Take that immersive level, MW's sim's in fantasy world attitude and add it more of a daggerfall type mechanics and you got yourself something better then DF and MW. This looks to be a more solid, compacted adventure game with some stat based dialogue, quest and combat.

Please, tell me, what mechanics exactly are they bringing back from Daggerfall?

I am not sure I understand the question. I do not really know what Oblivion will have except for the few excerpts I read here. From what I gather Oblivion will be very similar to MW, except have less skills, better graphics and better AI. However, I am not sure if the world will be as diverse and appear to have the same quality as MW's. That was one of the big selling points and sure added to the diversity. Not to mention a step from Daggerfall. I would like to see Daggerfall's randomness added to Oblivion, since the ES games strenths are essentially replayability.

 

[triCritical]

Arcanum just didn't have the cutscenes for chapters like BG2, PS:T, etc. did. You do have the freedom to roam around, however you do have a set plotline with Hoop A, Hoop B, Hoop C, and so on that you do have to jump through in a set order to complete the game. You have to go do the Iron Wheel Clan mine, get to the Isle of Despair, do the Black Mountain Clan dealie with the goggles you got from the IoD, you have to go through the icy pass where the blue bunny is, and so on.. You have to do all those in order. None of those things is optional and can be done out of order.

Side quests don't make a game any less linear. They just give the player things to do to break up the monotiny of hoop jumping through the main story.

I understand this. However, depending on your character the way you handle a lot of the quest was not a straight forward linear fashion. Some examples examples are,

1) Bates, you can use disguise to enter his lair. You can team up with his enemy to gain access to factory. Or you can use personality to talk your way through. And last you can hack your way through everything.

2) I think there were four ways to get the goggles if I am not mistaken. You could make them, you could use dialogue, you could steal them and you can use combat.

I do not remember correctly but I think the wheel clan mine had something where you could totally by pass a huge dungeon by using talk. So I mean there were definately choices on how you got through, what would be a mainly linear story line.

Bottomline, I am not saying that the main plot is nonlinear, however that the game itself was not very linear for the fact that there were so many different ways to solve the main plot quest.

 

[triCritical]

Well, actually, while there are sertain differences between handling an axe and a mace, they are indeed quite close in handling... and when it comes to subtleties, it will be rinda hard to develop those anyway.

Well blunt weapons include more then just maces. But for the most part axes and maces were used very differently historically. As far as I know there were know axes in agencourt, and scandinavian woodsmen probably did not have blunt weapons. And in battle I am sure they were used quite differently.

 

[Chefe]

*stuff on Arcanum*

Hell yea. Arcanum was teh shiznit. It's the only game I know of where you can actually talk the main bad guy out of his evil plan. You always have to kill the main bad guy in other games... not Arcanum!

Who cares if it wasn't very open-ended. It was probably the most non-linear game I've ever played. So many choices... oi.

Well blunt weapons include more then just maces. But for the most part axes and maces were used very differently historically. As far as I know there were know axes in agencourt, and scandinavian woodsmen probably did not have blunt weapons. And in battle I am sure they were used quite differently.

It's just the name that sucks. I can logically see combining axes, maces, and clubs into one weapon skill... but calling them "blunt" collectively is just stupid. It's like Bethesda doesn't know what the word blunt means.

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

Bottomline, I am not saying that the main plot is nonlinear, however that the game itself was not very linear for the fact that there were so many different ways to solve the main plot quest.

Allowing multiple means of doing things doesn't make it non-linear, it just makes it balanced. If you have a character system with gobs of options, you have to have multiple means of doing things so players can explore those options.

 

[Chefe]

Then what exactly does "non-linear" mean, in your own words?