Preview Oblivion preview at Gaming Target

[Saint_Proverbius]

So, Tintin.. Sacred.. Linear or non-linear?

 

[Tintin]

So, Tintin.. Sacred.. Linear or non-linear?

Didn't play it.

I know it has a main storyline which is linear but also has side quests.

Doesn't sound anything like the scale of Morrowind though (correct me if I'm wrong)

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

Well, you're free to wander around the game just doing side quests. 70% of the game is open to you from the start. Like I said, if you claim Morrowind is non-linear because you can ignore the main plot and just roam free, then Sacred has to be as well.

 

[Tintin]

Well, you're free to wander around the game just doing side quests. 70% of the game is open to you from the start. Like I said, if you claim Morrowind is non-linear because you can ignore the main plot and just roam free, then Sacred has to be as well.

That's much too simple, pretty much like the comparisons earlier of "mArIo 64 iz lyke Morrowind"

The question is, first of all, is the game really as open as Morrowind? Are there lots of towns, cities, guilds, factions, as many quests to do, etc. Is it comparable to Morrowind? Don't say "you can wander around, it's like Morrowind". Give an honest answer to whether it is comparable to Morrowind.

 

[fnordcircle]

Simply put a linear game is one where you progress along a straight line from the start of the game to the end. See how line and linear sort of are spelled the same? That's not a coincidence, those guys who made up English knew what they were doing. An example of a linear game is an FPS where you progress from one level or mission to the next. Any game that doesn't have a no-stops path to the end is non-linear.

Not that I'll ever stop you people from coming up with half-cocked codex-only definitions that only a few games, coincidentally the sacred cows around here, meet.

 

[Rat Keeng]

Any game that doesn't have a no-stops path to the end is non-linear.

What's this "no-stops path" you talk about? What games haven't got no-stops paths? You're the definition-wiz, you tell me.

The question is, first of all, is the game really as open as Morrowind? ...

As far as i'm concerned this is a technical issue, and size doesn't matter. Whether it's 16 square miles of forests and eroding soil, or just a handful of maps strung together by a worldmap travel system (a la Fallout and Baldur's Gate), none of that has anything to do with the game being linear or not. As long as i can remember, linearity in computer games has been defined, by how many steps you have to take before you finish the game. Whether that's people you have to visit/kill, locations you have to go to, item(s) you have to gather, really doesn't matter, as long as the game is completeable, without "halting" every two seconds.

Fallout is only almost non-linear, but like it's already been said, there is the pesky issue of the water chip, which must be aquired and delivered, in order to officially get the endgame quest. If the game had accounted for the player destroying the mutant threat, without returning the water chip, then by my "half-cocked" definition, Fallout would be 100% non-linear. Fallout 2 had more steps than 1, and was a lot more linear. Arcanum had even more steps, and was by no means a non-linear RPG, much like Baldur's Gate which also played very linearly. As far as classic RPGs go, Planescape:Torment takes the cake for being completely linear, outweighing Morrowind in terms of linearity.

In closing, quoting interviews and such seem to be the flavor of the month, so i'll hop on and bring some to the table that have relevance, and hopefully helps in seperating two computer game aspects, that some people seem to have gotten mixed up:

Will Oblivion retain Morrowind's linear quest concept for the main quest, or will it be possible to approach this from many different angles, changing the final outcome in the process?

Overall, the main quest is more linear than it is wide-open, but it does have sections where the actual goals for you become more open. As much as possible, we try to allow you to finish each quest in as many ways as possible. The actual very end is the same no matter what you did to get there. There are little things we can do well with our kind of game, like “get this item from this character” – especially now with our new AI system – where even something that simple opens itself up for tons of different gameplay options.

The TES series has always offered the player other options besides the main quest and side quests. Will Oblivion expand on that concept and offer other activities/professions?

I'd like to think we're expanding that idea. There is tons to do other than the main quest, and we hope that we've got a better handle on what kinds of things the player may want to do and how to deliver that. I don't know if I would say “expand” as much as “improve” the concept of freeform gameplay.

 

[Tintin]

You're missing the point that Todd says "the main quest is more linear", that does not equal "Oblivion is linear".

 

[Twinfalls]

Will Oblivion retain Morrowind's linear quest concept for the main quest, or will it be possible to approach this from many different angles, changing the final outcome in the process?

Overall, the main quest is more linear than it is wide-open, but it does have sections where the actual goals for you become more open. As much as possible, we try to allow you to finish each quest in as many ways as possible. The actual very end is the same no matter what you did to get there. There are little things we can do well with our kind of game, like “get this item from this character” – especially now with our new AI system – where even something that simple opens itself up for tons of different gameplay options.

In other words it's as linear as fuck.

Dickheads.

 

[Tintin]

Will Oblivion retain Morrowind's linear quest concept for the main quest, or will it be possible to approach this from many different angles, changing the final outcome in the process?

Overall, the main quest is more linear than it is wide-open, but it does have sections where the actual goals for you become more open. As much as possible, we try to allow you to finish each quest in as many ways as possible. The actual very end is the same no matter what you did to get there. There are little things we can do well with our kind of game, like “get this item from this character” – especially now with our new AI system – where even something that simple opens itself up for tons of different gameplay options.

In other words it's as linear as fuck.

Dickheads.

Hey, where'd you get your copy of Oblivion?

 

[triCritical]

Well, you're free to wander around the game just doing side quests. 70% of the game is open to you from the start. Like I said, if you claim Morrowind is non-linear because you can ignore the main plot and just roam free, then Sacred has to be as well.

Haven't played sacred, but how much of the game is main plot vs sidequest. But my point is really, with Morrowind, you can play for over a hundred hours and never do one main plot quest. However, you can still refine and develop your character, albeit in an immature way and progress through the faction and reputation counters. Morrowind has its strengths, and the simplistic main plot, which IMO is actually less then 5% of the game is not one of them. Its strengths come mainly out of exploration, ambience with some similarities to the Sims, in the sense where you develop a certain kind of character and goof around for awhile.

 

[DarkUnderlord]

You're missing the point that Todd says "the main quest is more linear", that does not equal "Oblivion is linear".

This qualifies Tintin for a dumbfuck now, doesn't it?

... or should we start coming up with percentages? Oblivion: It's 95% more linear! (See my post on page 4)

 

[Tintin]

Being called a dumbfuck on this site is a compliment. It would make me the highest-ranking member in intelligence.

Todd says the MAIN QUEST is more linear than non linear. The main quest isn't all Oblivion.

 

[Chefe]

Being called a dumbfuck on this site is a compliment. It would make me the highest-ranking member in intelligence.

Todd says the MAIN QUEST is more linear than non linear. The main quest isn't all Oblivion.

You're right. There's also mindlessly running around and faction quests, which we haven't heard anything about yet, but seeing as they're not taking any chances by adding in the revolutionary "choices" concept in the MQ, how high can we hold our hopes for factions?

If you think being called a dumbfuck is a compliment, well, I really don't know what to say about that...

 

[Tintin]

You're right. There's also mindlessly running around and faction quests, which we haven't heard anything about yet, but seeing as they're not taking any chances by adding in the revolutionary "choices" concept in the MQ, how high can we hold our hopes for factions?

Yep, you're right. Since we haven't heard about it, we must immediately assume that Oblivion does and always will suck.

 

[Psilon]

Nah, but it is reasonable to assume they haven't changed much from the previous game.

Faction quests are also less likely to have multiple choices because presumably not everyone is equipped for them. (Assuming, of course, that bunnyhopping everywhere doesn't still get you promotion in the Thieves' Guild.) If you're doing a Mage's Guild quest, expect to need magic spells rather than lockpicks while picking flowers in the SpeedTree-generated wilderness.

 

[triCritical]

Nah, but it is reasonable to assume they haven't changed much from the previous game.

Faction quests are also less likely to have multiple choices because presumably not everyone is equipped for them. (Assuming, of course, that bunnyhopping everywhere doesn't still get you promotion in the Thieves' Guild.) If you're doing a Mage's Guild quest, expect to need magic spells rather than lockpicks while picking flowers in the SpeedTree-generated wilderness.

Your 100% correct. I think that is part of the non-linearity of the ES games. I believe it is assumed that a character will advance in a faction. Although this is not necessarily the case, therefore, the choice of advancing through a faction, is what makes choice on how to complete a grand quest in ES games? OK I confused myself...

 

[Chefe]

You're right. There's also mindlessly running around and faction quests, which we haven't heard anything about yet, but seeing as they're not taking any chances by adding in the revolutionary "choices" concept in the MQ, how high can we hold our hopes for factions?

Yep, you're right. Since we haven't heard about it, we must immediately assume that Oblivion does and always will suck.

You idiot, that's not what I said. What I said was they're not inserting any real choices in the main quest, arguably the most important part of a game (and the one that normally presents the biggest choices). If any game has huge choices to make, it's in the main quest where they make them. Now, don't get me wrong here and think that I'm saying the ONLY place for choices to occur is in the main quest. What I'm saying is that if the main quest offers no real roleplaying choices other than slay with sword, spell, or stealth, then that creates a certain perception of the quests in the rest of the game.

And also, one must look back on Bethesda's past products. Specifically, the past RPG products under Ken and Todd. That is Morrowind, where quest linearity was presented in spades.

Note that at the end of my post that you quoted, I presented a question: "how high can we hold our hopes for factions?" Did I say "FUCK THAT COCK SUCKING SHIT OBLIVION!"? No. Did I say "THIS GAME IS GOING TO FUCKING SUCK ASS!"? No. Did I say "WE HAVEN'T HEARD ABOUT IT BUT I HATE THAT SHITHOLE OBLIVION SO IT'LL SUCK! SIEG HEIL!!!"? No, I didn't.

Now, please, read my post for what it is and not what you want it to be.

 

[Section8]

I don't know if I would say “expand” as much as “improve” the concept of freeform gameplay.

In other words, there's "less" to do, but it should be more "enjoyable". If it's actually "true" then Oblivion will go up a notch, but when a statement has that much spin on it, I'm not going to touch it. I'm likely to end up like Michael Ironside in The Machinist.

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

That's much too simple, pretty much like the comparisons earlier of "mArIo 64 iz lyke Morrowind"

The question is, first of all, is the game really as open as Morrowind? Are there lots of towns, cities, guilds, factions, as many quests to do, etc. Is it comparable to Morrowind? Don't say "you can wander around, it's like Morrowind". Give an honest answer to whether it is comparable to Morrowind.

Now I know you're just saying that Morrowind is non-linear because you like it rather than actually have an actual point. However, if you want an answer to your question, Sacred has more cities than Morrowind. Sacred has a bunch of scripted quests as well as a random quest generation system(therefore infinitely more quests). Sacred doesn't have factions, but given that factions in Morrowind didn't really do shit other than give out a linear quest string, I'm not even sure why you brought them up.

But, if you're saying either game is non-linear, you're wrong. You're also stupid. Linear is all about the plot of the game and how it's advanced. If you're not playing the plot, you're not advancing the plot. And no, levelling up your character killing bandits and rats for the fighter guild doesn't advance anything other than your character's level.

 

[Fodel]

What I said was they're not inserting any real choices in the main quest

You mistake the concept "linear" with "choices", the main plot of MW is linear and no choices, the main plot of Geneforge3 is linear and few choices, the main plot of Torment is linear and a lot of choices.

Todd says that main plot of Oblivion will be linear, nothing more, although is reasonale think in no choices. :evil:

But, if you're saying either game is non-linear, you're wrong. You're also stupid. Linear is all about the plot of the game and how it's advanced

You play the vampire-plot and is not linear.

You play the Great House-plot and is no linear.

You play the exploration-plot ( not exposed plot ) and is not linear.

You play the slavery-plot (better with a good mod) and is not linear

You play the thief-plot ( not exposed plot) and is not linear.

You play the good-no linear-roleplying mods (the Seekers, for example) and is not linear.

If you only play the main plot, yes, is linear and very boring, but only a stupid play MW limited at the Nevarine stuff.

 

[Claw]

Eating and drinking - yes.
Exremating - not
(...)
Also, that went to my One Power mod that have a few major features based on those, like getting hungry when Healed, and getting tired when channeling a lot.

I read "basic needs" and "One Power" and " channeling" and wonder where to read more?

I just tend to put enjoyement over classification. I give good game overall more priority than good rpg.

Funny, that's why I prefer Gothic over Morrowind.

What a world...

Yeah, someone called you a troll. The outrage!

I HAVE A DREAM that one day even RPGCodex, sweltering with the heat of injustice and oppression, will be transformed into an oasis of freedom and justice.
I have a dream today.

Being called a dumbfuck on this site is a compliment. It would make me the highest-ranking member in intelligence.

Thanks for confirming that Balor gave you too much credit.

 

[MrSmileyFaceDude]

That's much too simple, pretty much like the comparisons earlier of "mArIo 64 iz lyke Morrowind"

The question is, first of all, is the game really as open as Morrowind? Are there lots of towns, cities, guilds, factions, as many quests to do, etc. Is it comparable to Morrowind? Don't say "you can wander around, it's like Morrowind". Give an honest answer to whether it is comparable to Morrowind.

Now I know you're just saying that Morrowind is non-linear because you like it rather than actually have an actual point. However, if you want an answer to your question, Sacred has more cities than Morrowind. Sacred has a bunch of scripted quests as well as a random quest generation system(therefore infinitely more quests). Sacred doesn't have factions, but given that factions in Morrowind didn't really do shit other than give out a linear quest string, I'm not even sure why you brought them up.

But, if you're saying either game is non-linear, you're wrong. You're also stupid. Linear is all about the plot of the game and how it's advanced. If you're not playing the plot, you're not advancing the plot. And no, levelling up your character killing bandits and rats for the fighter guild doesn't advance anything other than your character's level.

Two questions for you. First, what were the randomly generated quests like? Did they advance the main plot? Did they include multiple steps to complete, and offer a large number of ways to complete them? Were they significantly more sophisticated than fetch & find or kill this goblin quests? Did they go beyond just allowing you to play the game longer?

As far as linear goes, what if the game has multiple plots? The various faction quest lines in Morrowind for example had little to no relationship to the main quest, and at least some of them had their own plot lines beyond just the character advancing through the ranks. I'm sure other games do similar things. So if you have a game with multiple, independent storylines, even if the MAIN plot is linear does that make the entire game linear?

 

[Balor]

Eating and drinking - yes.
Exremating - not
(...)
Also, that went to my One Power mod that have a few major features based on those, like getting hungry when Healed, and getting tired when channeling a lot.

I read "basic needs" and "One Power" and " channeling" and wonder where to read more?.

You mean you want to learn more about it?
Then try http://balor.rumor.ru/plugsen.html
If not, please clarify .

Being called a dumbfuck on this site is a compliment. It would make me the highest-ranking member in intelligence.

Thanks for confirming that Balor gave you too much credit.

Hmm, indeed, trolling in it's prime.

 

[Claw]

That link should be in your profile, or signature respectively.
Also, it should work. :p

 

[Balor]

That's... strange.
It worked a few hours before... now it doesn't.
I'll ask the people responsible.
While it's offline, see this:
http://tes.ag.ru/cs/balor.shtml
(I love how mods structured there: Item mods, graphics mods, gameplay mods, quest mods... and Balor's mods . Reminds me of a Russian anecdote... about 'good kinds' -> 'bad kids' -> 'very bad kids' -> 'Vovochka' :D Not related to Putin, heh.)
Ignore the Russian descs click download "скачать" links, in case you are interested.
Plugings are in English.
I'll what I can do about my 'official', heh, site.
P.S.
It has slightly older version, though.
If you want, I can send you updated one, with better 'documentation' and stuff. Just PM me you email. That's in case if the site will not be brought online soon.