Obsidian and inXile acquired by Microsoft

[nikolokolus]

And 4E would have been better still, right?

Paizo fucking loved it . . .

 

[Fairfax]

It was a bad decision. Even if you don't think 3E is decline, the switch had a high opportunity cost and didn't help the game's reception or sales. Sawyer thought it was necessary to compete with NWN, and the idea that it could turned out to be a joke.

https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/49192-iwd2s-use-of-3e-was-a-mistake/

If you think it would have been better to stick with 2nd Ed. than to change the engine as we did, I cannot disagree with you more strongly. There's stuff that BioWare never got working even according to 2nd Ed. rules (and, in fact, would have been very difficult to change given the code base) that we got working properly according to 3E rules for IWD2. For example: multiclassing. On a personal level, I feel the incomplete 3E in IWD2 was still better than the incomplete 2nd Ed. in the other IE games. Based on the reviews that sites and individuals gave to IWD2, I think that the general consensus was that the use of 3E was one of the things that made IWD2 very appealing to many people.

Our content in IWD2 was very uneven, but I feel that the gameplay was great, and our implementation of 3E was a huge part of that. ToEE got 3.x gameplay as good as it can get (though again, some bad content). NWN and IWD2 both really had good 3E gameplay (though I am biased toward IWD2)
...
Fundamentally, the things from 3E that we did put into IWD2 made it a lot better (in my opinion) than if we had just rolled on with the IE's 2nd Ed. implementation, which was still lacking in a lot of areas -- both from a general system perspective and an implementation perspective. That is, 2nd Ed. was terrible and stupid compared to 3E AND ALSO, the way that some of those 2nd Ed. elements were integrated in the IE was terrible

Bring on the autism ratings.

Yeah, I've seen that post. It shows a lot of what's wrong with his attitude and design philosophy, with the defensiveness and adjective-as-arguments as bonus. It also shows he is (or at least was) in denial about the game's legacy. He even comforts himself later in that thread:

Icewind Dale 2 did review 3.8% lower than IWD (according to Game Rankings), but that never really surprised me. It was the eighth title to use the Infinity Engine (BG, BG:TotSC, BG2, BG2:ToB, IWD, IWD:HoW, PS:T), and it came out right after Neverwinter Nights.

Whatever one thinks of the partial 3E ruleset, it didn't do much for IWD2's reception or legacy. It remains the least played and least liked IE game by a decent margin. Even the Codex, which is dominated by 3E fans, put it at #40 on its top 70 CRPGs of all time, well below IWD (#22), BG1 (#17), BG2 (#4), and PS:T (#1). It's even below DA:O (#33).

 

[Cael]

Hands off my boy Phil, heathens. He is a good dude and a rare breed of exec who actually seems to understand games not just numbers on a spreadsheet. And If I'm not mistaken he got a bump up the ladder recently and reports directly to the CEO instead of having 3 layers of corporate paper pushers above him, so that should bode well for the future.

If he was the dude who kicked Mechwarrior to PGI he has my undying enmity.

Fuck Phil Spencer with a glass shard encrusted splintered wooden dildo. Fuck him to death! For what he has done to Battletech, there is nothing in this mortal existence that is suitable as punishment, but that will have to suffice.

 

[Cael]

Improved. By a lot. Yeah, right:

You also won't find anything like that in Fallout, so I would argue about art.

Improved in other genres, not necessarily RPGs which have always lagged behind other 3D games until recently.

Additionally, Arcanum looks like this

And this is certainly easier on the eyes.

Arcanum's art style reminds me of Pagan...

 

[Wunderbar]

This is how little Microsoft gives a fuck about stompy shooty robots.

I thought harebrained's battletech was good, no? Haven't played it myself.

 

[Cael]

This is how little Microsoft gives a fuck about stompy shooty robots.

I thought harebrained's battletech was good, no? Haven't played it myself.

 

[Delterius]

Aesthetics are subjective thing,both art/level design catch the atmosphere of the games they represent. It is stupid to compare them and say which one is better.

I agree, Arcanum's art quality is terrible on a theological level.

 

[Flou]

Even if this perfect world scenario starts: I don't see Obs developing 4 different games simultaneously. Current Cainarsky game + maybe 2 games at most, tho only 1 more likely. Everybody on the list seems to wanna do different things(tho not sure about about what badler wants), even if they attempt they'd fail hard with favoritism and shit down the line if MCA has been truthful with us

Where is he btw? MS paid him off/threatened him into silence? :D

4 simultaneous games is possible if 1 or 2 of the games are in pre-production and they keep the smaller games small. Naturally if their big games suddenly take up over 100 staff members there's no room for more than 2-3 games at the company.

Everyone definately wants to do different things. Who knows if Cain&Boyarsky even wanna stick around after finishing The Outer Worlds (I hope they do).
Badler seemed enthusiastic about leading the DLC team. If there's a Pillars 3 that would put him in great position to lead that project.

MCA is stalking The Upper Management in their parking lot, yelling "Uppeeeer Managemeeent come out to pla-ay"

 

[hexer]

Fundamentally, the things from 3E that we did put into IWD2 made it a lot better (in my opinion) than if we had just rolled on with the IE's 2nd Ed. implementation, which was still lacking in a lot of areas -- both from a general system perspective and an implementation perspective. That is, 2nd Ed. was terrible and stupid compared to 3E AND ALSO, the way that some of those 2nd Ed. elements were integrated in the IE was terrible

Sawyer's a math buff.
Of course he'll think 3E made the game better because 3E was a minmaxers' heaven where math buffs got all the attention while storytelling was pushed into the background.
It was like someone injected Diablo into ADnD which I think was no coincidence.
I remember Monte Cook stating how nobody played ADnD in the late 90s so they had to save it by mimicking popular CRPGS of the time.
Remember how they said Feats were inspired by Traits / Perks from Fallout?

ADnD is more about improvisation and less about rules set in stone.
And I get the feeling Sawyer's not a spontaneous person.
Too bad, he's missing on the fun!

 

[hexer]

Is this the new excuse for why Sawyer does not suck?

I didn't excuse him, I said that as a math buff he should definitively stay clear from any sort of world building / storytelling.
And his RP systems aren't that good - I always felt they lack the fun / rewarding game mechanics.

 

[hexer]

He is not a math buff. If anything he understands very little of why D&D pure numbers are better than fractions/percentages. What bothers me is that he started PoE mechanics with the idea to make it less obfuscating than standard D&D and managed to make it even more complicated.

OK, he's a bad math buff then.
I remember him from the old days of BIS boards when he argued with Fallout 1/2 fans about how SPECIAL was flawed and how he was the only one who can make it infinitely better.
This was coming from a guy with absolutely no background, he ran a tattoo parlor before being hired by BIS as a web page designer.
Sounds like a godsend, right?
But his ego tripping didn't stop there, because 10 years later he claimed he can improve D&D, a system older than himself.
He counted his chickens before they hatched!

Being humble is a no. 1 rule for any creators, no matter what they do.
Otherwise, the life's gonna teach them a valuable lesson.

 

[Atlantico]

Bring on the autism ratings.

Sawyer has a point, Bioware's 2nd ed implementation was not as good as it should have been and making a more faithful adaptation of 3rd ed is a really commendable goal - there was only one teeny tiny problem.

3rd ed sucks so much. That's not Sawyer's fault and it probably wasn't even clear at the time, but damn what a hollowborn edition.

 

[jaydee2k]

Fuck thats it. Fallout forever in the hands of Bethesda now.
Obsidian and Inxile will be closed within 2-5 years estimated.

 

[AwesomeButton]

Fallout never had any chance reaching obsidian or inxile before the buyout. If anything, the IP reaching them becomes more conceivable after the buyout, and after the inevitable Fallout 76 disaster.

 

[Atlantico]

Fallout never had any chance reaching obsidian or inxile before the buyout. If anything, the IP reaching them becomes more conceivable after the buyout, and after the inevitable Fallout 76 disaster.

I don't dare to hope for the Fallout 76 disaster, there's so many Bethestards in the world who will buy anything from them. Fallout 4 was a success for goodness sake! I don't even

 

[AwesomeButton]

Fallout never had any chance reaching obsidian or inxile before the buyout. If anything, the IP reaching them becomes more conceivable after the buyout, and after the inevitable Fallout 76 disaster.

I don't dare to hope for the Fallout 76 disaster, there's so many Bethestards in the world who will buy anything from them. Fallout 4 was a success for goodness sake! I don't even

The bethesdards will show up, I'm pretty sure, although I can already see some of them being disappointed with getting an MMO.

The issues Fallout 76 will have will be with the customer retention and technical issues. I doubt it will meet the revenue expectations at this point. The hype areound PUBG/DayZ/Rust is already dying out.

 

[Infinitron]

The "IWD2 shoud have been 2E" thing is dumb IMO. It's adopting the interests of game developers rather than gamers.

IWD2 was always going to be a slam dunk sequel that nobody asked for. It was never going to be a best-seller or a high reviewer. From our perspective as hardcore RPG players, it was better that it at least tried to do something interesting by becoming the only 3E Infinity Engine game. I don't care how much of a pain it was for Avellone to develop.

 

[hexer]

The "IWD2 shoud have been 2E" thing is dumb IMO. It's adopting the interests of game developers rather than gamers.

Nope, it was done in the interest of game developers.
Sawyer & co. wanted IWD2 to be full fledged 3E.
Back then who asked gamers what they wanted?
User Experience wasn't even a buzzword.

Here's a snippet from Dave Maldonado's interview.
P.S. Can't help but laugh on the "more balanced" quote. That's Sawyer 100%

https://web.archive.org/web/20021012145714/http://www.rpgdot.com/index.php?hsaction=10053&ID=337

RPGDot: First there were the enhancements of BGII planned to go into Icewind Dale II like kits and a few 3rd edition enhancement. Then you made a complete(r) move to 3rd edition. Why did you consider it? Is IWDII in your opinion a better game now?

Dave: I don't want to put words in the mouth of Josh Sawyer, the game's Lead Designer at that point in development and champion of the 2nd edition to 3rd edition switch, but there were a multitude of reasons. We wanted to do something more with the sequel, not just add some more dungeons, kits, and monsters and call it a day. We believed the 3E rules set would provide a better game-play experience, and they seem to be doing that admirably - more balanced, a wider variety of player options, easier for new gamers to understand, and so on. I could go on, but suffice to say that we simply felt the conversion would make Icewind Dale 2 a better game despite the effort it would entail.

And in my opinion, worthless as that may be, yes: I feel the game is much better for it. The poor programmers might protest, bleary-eyed from lack of sleep and well-scarred by the producers' whips as they are, but I'm certainly glad that Josh pushed for the change and that management allowed for it to happen.


RPGDot: As the Infinity Engine never was designed to support 3rd edition rules, there must have been some doubts about the possibility of this all. When or what was the turning point for going full steam ahead with it?

Dave: It was the culmination of a few things, I think. Bits n' pieces of the 3E rules set had been filtering into the game for months. I believe Josh and some others had been asking for a full conversion for some time - there was quite a bit of debate on the matter as no one was so foolish as to take the decision lightly. And then at some point we were blessed with a significant time extension on the project -- big enough to go from "there's no blasted way that we can do this" to "whoah, hey, we can make a really good game here!" -- and BAM!, there it went.

 

[Ismaul]

Fuck thats it. Fallout forever in the hands of Bethesda now.
Obsidian and Inxile will be closed within 2-5 years estimated.

So optimistic.

It's more likely that Obsidian is maintained "alive" like Bioware for a looong time. We might still see them produce their very own Mass Effect: Andromeda.

 

[Bohr]

There's a reason why Sawyer clawed his way up to where he is now, from the tattoo parlour and web designer background. He's ambitious and, like many of us would do in his situation, he does what's best for Sawyer.

Why use the same ruleset for your "slamdunk sequel", when you can be the guy who implements 3e? Certainly looks way better on your cv and when angling for roles on future projects with new systems.

Why use OGL for your "IE successor" when you can push to design your own ruleset? If it works out, your career as a designer goes to another level entirely.

Whether these moves actually worked out better for gamers is a matter of opinion, of course, as 1000s of pages of Dex discussion have proved.

 

[hexer]

As someone living in Europe I know all to well about German ambition.
You can't do anything in the EU without their word being the last.
A bit of that rubbed on him, for sure. He's very proud of his German heritage.

Anyway, let's see if MS forces him to brush up on his "entertainment" skills or step aside.
His boss is not his BIS bro anymore, but some faceless corporate entity that is only interested in sales numbers.

 

[Lhynn]

Who is letting Infinitron post his opinions on rpg development?
Every time it feels exactly like this.

 

[Kyl Von Kull]

And when he discovered the child wasn't his, you cared about it why exactly? Personal preference aside, the whole questline sounds so unepic and unfun, that i can't imagine many people geting excited about it.
This kind of writting is not a bad thing by itself, but i would argue is a bad fit for an adventure in fantasyland in the vein of BG

Started typing this earlier yesterday then went to dinner. Hope it’s still relevant.

The Disco Elysium guys like to talk about the tyranny of cool: if they come up with a cool idea, they try to include it even if they need to bend over backwards to make the setting and the systems accommodate it. On the other hand, Sawyer seems to believe in the tyranny of uncool: he actively pushes to make the story/setting more mundane and subdued. This attitude served him very well in an absurdist sci-fi setting like New Vegas, but it's the wrong approach to a fantasy setting that's already quite bland by design. IMO, Sawyer has Asperger’s syndrome (for real, not the way we call each other autists) and when you view his decisions through this lens, it’s a lot easier to understand why he does what he does.

That said, while everyone’s pissing on POE/Deadfire, it’s worth noting that some people at Obsidian still know what they're doing. Many of Deadfire's flaws were mandated from the top and even the bad writing comes down to a lack of adult supervision. But there was some fucking amazing stuff in Deadfire, just not enough to offset the boring stuff.

The quest to avenge yourself on the pirate who attacked your ship, and the whole Fort Deadlight area that goes with it (designed by Jorge Salgado, with writing by the much maligned Megan Starks, who should maybe stick to this stuff and avoid writing companions), are top notch. Put that in any other CRPG and it would still stand out as one of the game’s best quests.

Neketaka is also a fantastic hub when viewed in isolation. In a game with a different story (and with interesting factions you actually gave a fuck about), much of the Neketaka content would be very strong. All it's missing is the right framing that gives you a reason to get involved. As is, they built a lot of cool stuff in that city and your only motivation for doing it is to curry favor with the four uninspired factions (for no particular purpose--at least, no purpose that's obvious until much later). Turns out even isometric games can fall into the open-world trap where your character is a tourist with no meaningful motivation.

It wouldn’t even need to be that complicated. Athkatla is elevated by the main quest—the need to raise money (and put together a team) to rescue Imoen binds all of the disparate content together. That’s pretty shallow, but unlike the early stages of Deadfire’s main quest, it gets the job done.

 

[mondblut]

Why the background laughter? Is that supposed to be satire?

 

[AwesomeButton]

https://web.archive.org/web/20021012145714/http://www.rpgdot.com/index.php?hsaction=10053&ID=337

RPGDot: First there were the enhancements of BGII planned to go into Icewind Dale II like kits and a few 3rd edition enhancement. Then you made a complete(r) move to 3rd edition. Why did you consider it? Is IWDII in your opinion a better game now?

Dave: I don't want to put words in the mouth of Josh Sawyer, the game's Lead Designer at that point in development and champion of the 2nd edition to 3rd edition switch, but there were a multitude of reasons. We wanted to do something more with the sequel, not just add some more dungeons, kits, and monsters and call it a day. We believed the 3E rules set would provide a better game-play experience, and they seem to be doing that admirably - more balanced, a wider variety of player options, easier for new gamers to understand, and so on. I could go on, but suffice to say that we simply felt the conversion would make Icewind Dale 2 a better game despite the effort it would entail.

And in my opinion, worthless as that may be, yes: I feel the game is much better for it. The poor programmers might protest, bleary-eyed from lack of sleep and well-scarred by the producers' whips as they are, but I'm certainly glad that Josh pushed for the change and that management allowed for it to happen.


RPGDot: As the Infinity Engine never was designed to support 3rd edition rules, there must have been some doubts about the possibility of this all. When or what was the turning point for going full steam ahead with it?

Dave: It was the culmination of a few things, I think. Bits n' pieces of the 3E rules set had been filtering into the game for months. I believe Josh and some others had been asking for a full conversion for some time - there was quite a bit of debate on the matter as no one was so foolish as to take the decision lightly. And then at some point we were blessed with a significant time extension on the project -- big enough to go from "there's no blasted way that we can do this" to "whoah, hey, we can make a really good game here!" -- and BAM!, there it went.

Reading this interview, I'm thinking of the possibility of such kind of informed questions occurring in the minds of present day journos.