Obsidian General Discussion Thread

[Nihiliste]

What Pillars really needed was some kind of "What can change the nature of a man?" wham line moment so people would get it

I'm delirious from working 26 hours and didn't even realize I posted in this thread, but if you think the difference between PoE and PS:T or MotB calibre writing is that small then you're a dumbfuck plain and simple.

 

[Nihiliste]

This whole conversation has drifted into highly subjective territory, when PoE really has so many low hanging fruits you can rip on.

But to say losing Zeits and MCA wasn't a blow to Obsidians writing prowess is just plain Hubris. I would be kicking myself as a company.

This 10000x. Sometimes you've gotta call a spade a spade.

 

[Nihiliste]

I wonder if MCA will come back as a stretch goal for PoE 2

I think Fenstermaker did a good job overall with limited time and budget resulting in the second half being gimped. But a few standout characters like Durance and Grieving Mother makes a big difference in making the setting feel less 'plain'.

Case in point, we only have those two standouts because of a writer no longer with the company...

 

[Neanderthal]

My opinion they ought to hav had a first game that stuck to themes an oddities o Poe gameworld like a fuckin leech, make it distinct an personal rather than epic an world changin. The god business were too big a thing to use in an introduction, first you get players used to whats different, rather than changing up shit straight away.

Well in my PnP experience anyway.

Infinitron: Dint they first coin that "what does one life matter" thing back when Kickstarter were bein announced on Obs forums? I thought they'd go wi that but Numenera seems to av half inched it.

 

[Infinitron]

What Pillars really needed was some kind of "What can change the nature of a man?" wham line moment so people would get it

I'm delirious from working 26 hours and didn't even realize I posted in this thread, but if you think the difference between PoE and PS:T or MotB calibre writing is that small then you're a dumbfuck plain and simple.

No, that's not what I meant. And the difference probably isn't that small, but probably also not as large as you think.

I'm not saying PoE has GOD-TIER writing. I'm saying if you look at the game and go "Man, this is a company with a serious bad writing problem", you need a reality check. I would say it's like going from Shadowrun: Dragonfall and going "best writing ever" to Shadowrun: Hong Kong and going "oh god, this is terrible", when it's really the same basic stuff, give or take pacing and polish. They have talent and the capacity to attract more talent and they'll be fine.

 

[Nihiliste]

What Pillars really needed was some kind of "What can change the nature of a man?" wham line moment so people would get it

I'm delirious from working 26 hours and didn't even realize I posted in this thread, but if you think the difference between PoE and PS:T or MotB calibre writing is that small then you're a dumbfuck plain and simple.

No, that's not what I meant. And the difference probably isn't that small, but probably also not as large as you think.

I'm not saying PoE has GOD-TIER writing. I'm saying if you look at the game and go "Man, this is a company with a serious bad writing problem", you need a reality check. I would say it's like going from Shadowrun: Dragonfall and going "best writing ever" to Shadowrun: Hong Kong and going "oh god, this is terrible", when it's really the same basic stuff, give or take pacing. They have talent and the capacity to attract more talent and they'll be fine.

I get your point but your argument also suffers from a lack of perspective in its own way. For years, Obsidian's only saving grace was their top notch writing. For a company like that to lose their two best writers, in addition to others in the past like Gonzalez and Mitsoda, is a huge thing. Yeah sure, companies that were never known for their writing continue to be worse than Obsidian, fine. But when writing is your claim to fame in the industry, to bleed talent like Obsidian has in this department is not insignificant.

 

[Fairfax]

Fenstermaker did try to make a "What can change the nature of a man?" moment, but it was so bad that not even a fanboy like Infinitron seems to remember it.

 

[Theldaran]

Obsidian is probably an overrated developer, still not as hated as Bioware themselves. Now they just can't put the blame on circumstances, only a small budget in the case of PoE. They're on their own, and we'll see how they hold up. But they'll probably still be overrated in their next releases. It's only that people get tired quickly.

 

[Infinitron]

Fenstermaker did try to make a "What can change the nature of a man?" moment, but it was so bad that not even a fanboy like Infinitron seems to remember it.

Not what I meant. I'm not talking about that dialogue node with a bunch of choices (which was "cool" but basically silly in PS:T too IMO), I'm talking about the fact that the game doesn't have that kind of memetic mantra that sums up "why this is a profound game". There's a post about this on the Obsidian forums, I'll try to find it and post it later.

 

[Immortal]

What Pillars really needed was some kind of "What can change the nature of a man?" wham line moment so people would get it

I'm delirious from working 26 hours and didn't even realize I posted in this thread, but if you think the difference between PoE and PS:T or MotB calibre writing is that small then you're a dumbfuck plain and simple.

No, that's not what I meant. And the difference probably isn't that small, but probably also not as large as you think.

I'm not saying PoE has GOD-TIER writing. I'm saying if you look at the game and go "Man, this is a company with a serious bad writing problem", you need a reality check. I would say it's like going from Shadowrun: Dragonfall and going "best writing ever" to Shadowrun: Hong Kong and going "oh god, this is terrible", when it's really the same basic stuff, give or take pacing and polish. They have talent and the capacity to attract more talent and they'll be fine.

I agree with you but most people aren't judging Obsidian based on the merit of game writing as a whole.
Like we aren't trying to say Man PoE sucks.. this is Fallout 4 levels of shit...

The fact is - PoE was a huge disappointment because this was our first chance to see Obsidian Unchained. If you compare PoE to previous works, I would argue New Vegas, Alpha Protocol and many of the classics are all better put together... Are we talking Dragonfall > Hong Kong comparison here? Yea maybe that's pretty fair. Personally I have almost zero appreciation for the back story / lore of this game and the main plot barely holds it together to the end.

The game's strong suit is the companions and even there it was sorely lacking. IMO. To each their own though.

One thing I think is less subjective though.. PoE should have knocked it out of the park.
I dunno what was going on behind the scenes and why MCA got so shafted on this game. Was it too many cooks in the kitchen? Inflated Egos?

Who knows.. but the game suffered.

Fenstermaker did try to make a "What can change the nature of a man?" moment, but it was so bad that not even a fanboy like Infinitron seems to remember it.

Not what I meant. I'm not talking about that dialogue node with a bunch of choices (which was "cool" but basically silly in PS:T too IMO), I'm talking about the fact that the game doesn't have that kind of memetic mantra that sums up "why this is a profound game". There's a post about this on the Obsidian forums, I'll try to find it and post it later.

Wasn't the whole revelations about what the Gods are.. and what is the nature of a omnipotent being.. basically exactly that?

 

[Excidium II]

The fact is - PoE was a huge disappointment because this was our first chance to see Obsidian Unchained. If you compare PoE to previous works, I would argue New Vegas, Alpha Protocol and many of the classics are all better put together

This is the main point when it comes to "poe sucks".

 

[Fairfax]

Fenstermaker did try to make a "What can change the nature of a man?" moment, but it was so bad that not even a fanboy like Infinitron seems to remember it.

Not what I meant. I'm not talking about that dialogue node with a bunch of choices (which was silly in PS:T too IMO), I'm talking about the fact that the game doesn't have that kind of memetic mantra that sums up "why this is a profound game". There's a post about this on the Obsidian forums, I'll try to find it and post it later.

But they did try. I just can't remember the question either, but it's in the last Act.

 

[Infinitron]

I think the record of Kickstarter so far shows us that no, we actually cannot expect any company's first Kickstarter game to knock it out of the park.

 

[Immortal]

The fact is - PoE was a huge disappointment because this was our first chance to see Obsidian Unchained. If you compare PoE to previous works, I would argue New Vegas, Alpha Protocol and many of the classics are all better put together

This is the main point when it comes to "poe sucks".

Only so far as the story / writing goes.

PoE does a better job then most other games but that bar is so fucking low, I wouldn't stand on my soap box.
The unnecessarily verbose narration, flimsy main story and deus ex villain all play their parts, I am just trying to avoid drifting into subjective truths.

While I could argue "This thing sucks and is not my taste" that really doesn't really supply an empirical argument.

 

[Trashos]

"What if we can be assured of nothing?"

 

[Joni Odin von Hassenstein]

I think the record of Kickstarter so far shows us that no, we actually cannot expect any company's first Kickstarter game to knock it out of the park.

I don't even know what's that supposed to mean!
Do people really expect a "best game I ever played" every two months?
WL2 and PoE, while admittedly no PS:T's, were great! SRR pretty much delivered.
So the butthurt of people with childish expectations is really nothing to be taken serious.

 

[AN4RCHID]

I wonder if MCA will come back as a stretch goal for PoE 2

I think Fenstermaker did a good job overall with limited time and budget resulting in the second half being gimped. But a few standout characters like Durance and Grieving Mother makes a big difference in making the setting feel less 'plain'.

Case in point, we only have those two standouts because of a writer no longer with the company...

Well, I was singling them out because they were written by MCA. I liked Thaos a lot as a villain. I like most of the companions, they're just all played very straight (with the notable exception of Hravius, who was also one of my favorites). I think that was probably a design decision, that maybe didn't jive with MCA given Durance and GM's cut content. Hopefully Sawyer and Fenstermaker will see how much people liked Durance and let the designers get a little weirder on PoE2.

 

[Excidium II]

Edér is a fan favourite too so obviously needs more husbandos.

 

[Sizzle]

I wonder if MCA will come back as a stretch goal for PoE 2

I think Fenstermaker did a good job overall with limited time and budget resulting in the second half being gimped. But a few standout characters like Durance and Grieving Mother makes a big difference in making the setting feel less 'plain'.

Case in point, we only have those two standouts because of a writer no longer with the company...

Well, I was singling them out because they were written by MCA. I liked Thaos a lot as a villain. I like most of the companions, they're just all played very straight (with the notable exception of Hravius, who was also one of my favorites). I think that was probably a design decision, that maybe didn't jive with MCA given Durance and GM's cut content. Hopefully Sawyer and Fenstermaker will see how much people liked Durance and let the designers get a little weirder on PoE2.

I liked that they were all so down-to-earth, I just would have liked them even more if they had more of an impact on the storyline.

I know this was a conscious design decision - no NPC should be vital to the story, it's the PCs show, not theirs - but they could have interwoven them better in the plot.

If you compare PoE's NPCs with the ones from F:NV, it becomes even more apparent. I was especially disappointed that there was no difference (except the ending slides) to the resolution of their personal quests - no new abilities, no gear, nothing. They tried to rectify this a bit with the White March NPCs, those ones at least get something out of their quests apart from piece of mind, but all the other ones still not getting anything is a major letdown.

 

[Excidium II]

inter-NPC relations were also too light.

 

[Immortal]

I wonder if MCA will come back as a stretch goal for PoE 2

I think Fenstermaker did a good job overall with limited time and budget resulting in the second half being gimped. But a few standout characters like Durance and Grieving Mother makes a big difference in making the setting feel less 'plain'.

Case in point, we only have those two standouts because of a writer no longer with the company...

Well, I was singling them out because they were written by MCA. I liked Thaos a lot as a villain. I like most of the companions, they're just all played very straight (with the notable exception of Hravius, who was also one of my favorites). I think that was probably a design decision, that maybe didn't jive with MCA given Durance and GM's cut content. Hopefully Sawyer and Fenstermaker will see how much people liked Durance and let the designers get a little weirder on PoE2.

I liked that they were all so down-to-earth, I just would have liked them even more if they had more of an impact on the storyline.

I know this was a conscious design decision - no NPC should be vital to the story, it's the PCs show, not theirs - but they could have interwoven them better in the plot.

If you compare PoE's NPCs with the ones from F:NV, it becomes even more apparent. I was especially disappointed that there was no difference (except the ending slides) to the resolution of their personal quests - no new abilities, no gear, nothing. They tried to rectify this a bit with the White March NPCs, those ones at least get something out of their quests apart from piece of mind, but all the other ones still not getting anything is a major letdown.

The sawyer philosophy of "If the game isn't fun on it's own, then stop playing".
Combat and Quests shouldn't have incentive. Just like... Play the game bro....

 

[Fairfax]

"What if we can be assured of nothing?"

That was it. So deep.

I think the record of Kickstarter so far shows us that no, we actually cannot expect any company's first Kickstarter game to knock it out of the park.

FTL.

 

[Infinitron]

I'm obviously talking about retro story-driven RPGs, not Kickstarters in general.

"What if we can be assured of nothing?"

That was it. So deep.

Again, nah, not what I'm talking about. I think if Obsidian had wanted to make that into a memetic mantra, they would have hammered it into your head with a cutscene just like PS:T did.

That said, I'm not sure what you're giggling at. It's not really any more pretentious-sounding than PS:T's line is

 

[AN4RCHID]

 

[Trashos]

"What if we can be assured of nothing?"

That was it. So deep.
FTL.

To be fair, it is as deep as religion in general is, because it is the question that religions combat. It also ties in very well with the situation with the Gods, and also Eder's and Kana's quests.

Other than that, it could have been executed better.