Obsidian General Discussion Thread

[Excidium II]

"What if we can be assured of nothing?"

That was it. So deep.

From roxor's review for those who forgot:

Spoiler

 

[Fairfax]

I'm obviously talking about retro story-driven RPGs, not Kickstarters in general.

"What if we can be assured of nothing?"

That was it. So deep.

Again, nah, not what I'm talking about. I think if Obsidian had wanted to make that into a memetic mantra, they would have hammered it into your head with a cutscene just like PS:T did.

That said, I'm not sure what you're giggling at. It's not really any more pretentious-sounding than PS:T's line is

You say that like it was just a fancy scene and not a major theme in the game.

 

[Fairfax]

MCA and Tim Cain will join two panels in the upcoming GaymerX Australia. David Gaider will also be there, obviously.

Saturday 02/27:

Getting Into the Games Industry
Antony Reed (Game Developers' Association of Australia)
David Gaider (Beamdog)
Manveer Heir (EA BioWare)
Chris Avellone (Independent)
Lisy Kane (League of Geeks)
Tim Cain (Obsidian Entertainment)

Presented by CG Spectrum, join our panel of industry experts and learn how to join the videogame industry.

Big Head Mode Presents: The Art of the RPG
Ben O'Brien (Big Head Mode, Insert Coin)
Rae Johnson (Gizmodo Australia, Bonus Stage)
Carlo Ritchie (Big Head Mode)
Tim Cain (Obsidian Entertainment)
Manveer Heir (Bioware)
David Gaider (Beamdog)
Chris Avellone

From distant, medieval lands to the far reaches of outer space, RPG's give players the choice and freedom to shape the characters, stories and worlds they find themselves in. We've all been captivated by these games, poured countless hours into their immersive worlds, completed every sidequest or read every lore book. But where does that process begin? How does a world as vast and complex as Thedas go from being notes on a whiteboard to being in the hands of a gamer? Big Head Mode will sit down with three titans of the RPG world and over the course of an hour, learn the secrets, the triumphs and the challenges of creating a world from nothing. But it wouldn't be a Big Head Mode panel without a few little surprises along the way...

I have a feeling the first one will be pretty boring, but the second might have interesting bits. Assuming they'll put this on YouTube, that is.

 

[Infinitron]

Holy lol: http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/inde...dfunding-platform.102204/page-21#post-4396153

 

[Sannom]

They could have easily added something subtle to indicate the PC was going bonkers. When the game first starts out, you see the souls of dying and tortured people all the time. And then it just stops.

It stops and comes back at the very end. There are a lot of visions in Twin Elms.

My opinion they ought to hav had a first game that stuck to themes an oddities o Poe gameworld like a fuckin leech, make it distinct an personal rather than epic an world changin. The god business were too big a thing to use in an introduction, first you get players used to whats different, rather than changing up shit straight away.

Let's be frank here, the gods and their creation are the biggest oddities of the PoE setting so far. Physical gods, "IRL" gods, gods which serve a vital role but whose existence can be temporary, gods which are made "real" by the faith of their followers, all those I've seen plenty of in fantasy stories. But completely artificial gods, immensely powerful AI which act like archetypal gods and aren't interested in the destruction of humanity (hi Shodan!), created as a result of an entire civilization's crisis of faith, that's rare. I've seen it a few times in science fiction games, like Deus Ex, but even that was a possible ending rather than a part of the setting.

I get your point but your argument also suffers from a lack of perspective in its own way. For years, Obsidian's only saving grace was their top notch writing.

For you maybe. Personally I liked the gameplay in Alpha Protocol and a few other of their games.

 

[Sizzle]

They could have easily added something subtle to indicate the PC was going bonkers. When the game first starts out, you see the souls of dying and tortured people all the time. And then it just stops.

It stops and comes back at the very end. There are a lot of visions in Twin Elms.

Which is a pretty bad way to handle them, seeing as they were conspicuously absent from most of the game (I'm talking about random visions here, not critical path ones).

It's like the designers suddenly remembered they had those in the beginning of the game, and just put in a few in Twin Elms to remind the PC that, yes, he can still see them.

 

[Neanderthal]

Let's be frank here, the gods and their creation are the biggest oddities of the PoE setting so far. Physical gods, "IRL" gods, gods which serve a vital role but whose existence can be temporary, gods which are made "real" by the faith of their followers, all those I've seen plenty of in fantasy stories. But completely artificial gods, immensely powerful AI which act like archetypal gods and aren't interested in the destruction of humanity (hi Shodan!), created as a result of an entire civilization's crisis of faith, that's rare. I've seen it a few times in science fiction games, like Deus Ex, but even that was a possible ending rather than a part of the setting.

Aye I agree its a bloody good turn up for books, but its too bloody big an revelatory for a first game in my reckonin. I'm not knockin Poe because i've got no grudge against it unlike others, an White March is shapin up nicely, I simply think that they could ave done better in choosin themes an narrative they went wi. Need some time to get introduced an use to gods first, an religions, classes, the faith, culture an societies built up around em before you pull wool out from under players feet. Could have had a shit ton o clues an make em all pay off in a sequel, but you wanna see world complete an how it is before you change such a major element I reckon, at least in an introductory release.

First game i'd just have kept wi Watcher theme an nailed it down tight, had MCA design narrative because hes shown he knows how to do this, an let the weird nature o souls an animancy be the focus for that first game. Cause thats for me what sets it apart, an causes Engwithans to do what they do. Make a deep personal story in that narrative, have shit tons o reactions an occurences due to Watcher stuff, really focus on it, an I can imagine a Torment like classic bein spawned. Thaos can be left for another day, shunt really hav been able to do shit against a virtual demigod like him anyway, an you could hav enemies like in New Vegas, reactive to what you choose an support.

 

[Makabb]

Did Obsidian produce anything memorable on their own? Seems like they only produce expansions for well known ip's.

 

[Sizzle]

Did Obsidian produce anything memorable on their own? Seems like they only produce expansions for well known ip's.

Even if we disregard PoE, Alpha Protocol was certainly memorable, no matter what you may think of it.

 

[Makabb]

PoE that no xp for combat abortion and AP is an action game..... yea.....

 

[Rev]

I still don't get why people whine about PoE's lack of XP rewards for combat. Every fucking rpg should reward you only for achieving your goals, allowing players to roleplay their characters the way they want instead of encouraging the slaughter of every NPCs to get more XPs.
It would work even better in a game with less unavoidable fights, but it should be the base for every rpg of their name, not something to criticize.

 

[AwesomeButton]

Every Bethestard is an opportunity for abortion which has sadly been overlooked by the responsible entities.

 

[Immortal]

I still don't get why people whine about PoE's lack of XP rewards for combat. Every fucking rpg should reward you only for achieving your goals, allowing players to roleplay their characters the way they want instead of encouraging the slaughter of every NPCs to get more XPs.
It would work even better in a game with less unavoidable fights, but it should be the base for every rpg of their name, not something to criticize.

I think it has something to do with pointless trash mob packs in random Forest 3B not really delivering on the "Objective Based XP System" we were promised. Many people assumed from the start that this Objective based system was gonna be a flop and when we were proven right during beta - the sawyer solution was Lock pick / trap XP..

Something that should have never existed.

 

[Rev]

I still don't get why people whine about PoE's lack of XP rewards for combat. Every fucking rpg should reward you only for achieving your goals, allowing players to roleplay their characters the way they want instead of encouraging the slaughter of every NPCs to get more XPs.
It would work even better in a game with less unavoidable fights, but it should be the base for every rpg of their name, not something to criticize.

I think it has something to do with pointless trash mob packs in random Forest 3B not really delivering on the "Objective Based XP System" we were promised. Many people assumed from the start that this Objective based system was gonna be a flop and when we were proven right during beta - the sawyer solution was Lock pick / trap XP..

Something that should have never existed.

I agree that it would've been better if there were some less trash mobs in the game, and I've even said as much in my previous post, but it doesn't mean that the system itself is flawed.
With objective based XP system, people can avoid some battles and it's fine because they won't end up being weaker, while the ones who likes the combat system can still enjoy all the needless killings they want (and get some loot/money in the process).

 

[AN4RCHID]

You can't really avoid many battles though. During the Kickstarter the XP system was sold as a way to make stealth and diplomatic solutions as rewarding as combat solutions, but in the final game there are virtually no stealth or diplomatic options. So it just makes the only available path a little less rewarding. I agree that the system itself isn't flawed, but it seems to be designed for a completely different game.

 

[Outlander]

https://twitter.com/BrianFargo/status/704768060733829120

 

[AN4RCHID]

Wasteland: New Vegas?

that would be a pretty smart move by InXile if they could afford it. Get Obsidian to keep building the Wasteland brand while they finish Tides and Bard's Tale.

 

[Excidium II]

obsidian finally makes a TB CRPG and it's wasteland 2+1. Lol that'd be sad.

 

[Infinitron]

You can't really avoid many battles though.

Sure you can. You're just playing in standard hardcore RPGer map painting mode and not considering it. I can sympathize, I did that too.

 

[AN4RCHID]

Well, sure, you can avoid combat solutions by just skipping content and not exploring wilderness areas.

 

[undecaf]

https://twitter.com/BrianFargo/status/704768060733829120

Doesn't sound like a bad idea... Even with possibly Sawyerized(tm) systems design it'd still be better than most of the other shit in the market.

 

[Infinitron]

AN4RCHID I'm actually thinking primarily about enemy-bypassing shortcut routes in dungeons. My impression is that PoE is more deliberate about including these compared to the old games.

 

[Zed]

I'm actually thinking primarily about enemy-bypassing shortcut routes in dungeons. My impression is that PoE is more deliberate about including these compared to the old games

probably because combat in PoE is meaningless

 

[Trashos]

When InXile got the PoE engine for Torment, what did Obsidian get? Do we know the deal?

 

[AN4RCHID]

AN4RCHID I'm actually thinking primarily about enemy-bypassing shortcut routes in dungeons. My impression is that PoE is more deliberate about including these compared to the old games.

Eh. That's still just skipping content. PoE doesn't have a problem with letting players skip content and miss out on XP, so I don't see that as a valid defense. I'm talking about ways to complete content without fighting. There are only a few parts that have actual diplomatic/stealth alternative routes. Temple of Woedica is the most significant I can remember.