Decline Obsidian's Creative-Bankruptcy compared to Other Non-Obsidian Upcoming large CRPGs... Is there any hope for Obsidian to ever make it big?

[Ladonna]

But primarily, their thing was being the company that makes BioWare/Bethesda-style games for an audience with an average IQ score about 10 points higher.

When they first came on the stage, the big promise was actually "Here is Black Isle 2" emerged from the ashes. And the premise behind the spinoffs was "they are just doing it to build up for their own game, they need the money".

Of course, since Black Isle itself mainly did spinoffs or games off existing franchises....hmm..

 

[Gangrelrumbler]

"Exposition" is anathema in movies, but not necessarily in games.

Just plain wrong

It is a thing in literature, cinema, theatre and everywhere where there is text

Exposition is bad in movies because it doesn't take advantage of the visual medium to tell the story via context in a way that engages the viewer's brain. But when you're sitting in your Herman Miller with a coffee and a fag, at leisure, what's the problem with reading a bunch of text?

The problem with infodumps in fantasy games is that the audience is just hearing about the world instead of experiencing it. It's more interesting see something in action rather than be informed about it. Fallout could just have an NPC in Den that tells you about the Enclave and how they are an oppressive force that goes around killing and kidnapping people but putting in a random encounter where they execute a farmer's family is much more engaging. And if a writer really thinks that he really need to provide all the unnecessary background information about his fantasy world or whatever he can just remove it from the main narrative and put it into an in-game book.

 

[AW8]

The problem with infodumps in fantasy games is that the audience is just hearing about the world instead of experiencing it. It's more interesting see something in action rather than be informed about it. Fallout could just have an NPC in Den that tells you about the Enclave and how they are an oppressive force that goes around killing and kidnapping people but putting in a random encounter where they execute a farmer's family is much more engaging. And if a writer really thinks that he really need to provide all the unnecessary background information about his fantasy world or whatever he cen just remove it from the main narratove and put it into an in-game book.

Makes me think of something that someone on this site said a couple of years ago, regarding Pillars 1: That the backstory about the god Eothas taking a physical form, leading a rebellion and having to be destroyed using something called "the Godhammer Bomb" sounds like a much more interesting main plot for the game than the actual main plot.

As for in-game books, unless they are in-universe fiction I think they should follow the same rule as lore exposition in dialogue: Only keep the relevant stuff. When I find a note on a desk in a game I read it, because I know it's going to be useful information, like a password or directions to a secret.
But when I find a book in a game, I read the first sentence and if my brain recognizes it as "lore", I immediately stop reading since I know it's going to be useless writings about the organizational structure of something on the other side of the planet.

 

[Gangrelrumbler]

The problem with infodumps in fantasy games is that the audience is just hearing about the world instead of experiencing it. It's more interesting see something in action rather than be informed about it. Fallout could just have an NPC in Den that tells you about the Enclave and how they are an oppressive force that goes around killing and kidnapping people but putting in a random encounter where they execute a farmer's family is much more engaging. And if a writer really thinks that he really need to provide all the unnecessary background information about his fantasy world or whatever he cen just remove it from the main narratove and put it into an in-game book.

Makes me think of something that someone on this site said a couple of years ago, regarding Pillars 1: That the backstory about the god Eothas taking a physical form, leading a rebellion and having to be destroyed using something called "the Godhammer Bomb" sounds like a much more interesting main plot for the game than the actual main plot.

As for in-game books, unless they are in-universe fiction I think they should follow the same rule as lore exposition in dialogue: Only keep the relevant stuff. When I find a note on a desk in a game I read it, because I know it's going to be useful information, like a password or directions to a secret.
But when I find a book in a game, I read the first sentence and if my brain recognizes it as "lore", I immediately stop reading since I know it's going to be useless writings about the organizational structure of something on the other side of the planet.

I disagree. There's no reason not to include additional content for people who are actually interested in taxation systems of fictional countries. As you've pointed out it's easy for players to spot them and not interact with them.

 

[AW8]

I disagree. There's no reason not to include additional content for people who are actually interested in taxation systems of fictional countries. As you've pointed out it's easy for players to spot them and not interact with them.

The problem is that it clutters up the world with useless things. I'd prefer if the items in the world have a purpose, so instead of a text about something meaningless it could be something that teaches the player about game mechanics or where a certain alchemy ingredient grows.

And they're almost always going at it completely backwards! Fire & Blood is an interesting book because it takes a deep dive into the Targaryen dynasty, a family we've already met in the main ASOIAF books. Now imagine of GRRM had started the series with Fire & Blood. No one would have read it since it would have been a boring tome about families and places we've never seen or care about. This is your general RPG lore book. It rambles on about some place and people we've never seen, and is likely to never see, and thus it's hard to care.

 

[Daedalos]

Outer Worlds 2 is gonna be LIT. Tim Cain said so himself.

Realistically tho, they fumbled the ball with TOW 1, it was mediocre, but had a few good points here and there, but they need to MASSIVELY step up the sequel to make a hit, heres to hoping they do.
TOW easily has the trappings and premise of a good fallout vs firefly vibe type game, they just didnt pull it off successfully. It just wasnt enough. time, budget, management, whatever. it was just not up to par.

Honestly, I like Tim and Leonard, they're great guys. I hope TOW 2 is good, and has a big scope with good shit in it with all that microsoft money rite

They could totally make TOW 2 their next "NEW VEGAS 2" game... if they dont fuck it up, which of course, they probably will :D

Pillars of Eternity 1 was genuinely a good game for me, and a game that actually brought me back into RTwP, because I am a MASSIVE tb-fag.
I liked the pillars 1 story a fucking lot, too.

Pillars 2 was a fluke

 

[Gangrelrumbler]

The problem is that it clutters up the world with useless things. I'd prefer if the items in the world have a purpose, so instead of a text about something meaningless it could be something that teaches the player about game mechanics or where a certain alchemy ingredient grows.

It depends on the game. In a game like Morrowind where simulation is important part of an experience having a lot of useless items makes the world feel more alive. After all it's hard to expect people to only own weapons, armor, magical items and magical books.

And they're almost always going at it completely backwards! Fire & Blood is an interesting book because it takes a deep dive into the Targaryen dynasty, a family we've already met in the main ASOIAF books. Now imagine of GRRM had started the series with Fire & Blood. No one would have read it since it would have been a boring tome about families and places we've never seen or care about. This is your general RPG lore book. It rambles on about some place and people we've never seen, and is likely to never see, and thus it's hard to care.

The game is The Game of Thrones, books are Fire & Blood. I doubt that most people read them on their first playthrough. Also places the player never see don't have to be irrelevant. When you play Morrowind it's nice to see what the mainland of the Empire is like but it's not really necessary to experiencing the plot. And it's much more convenient to have it stashed away in some book you can buy if you're interested or completely ignore rather than have it said by a random NPC between actually important lines.

 

[Doctor Gong]

The humor is that Obsidian is better off now than it likely has been in its entire existence due to the fact that they have a genuine hit in Grounded, AKA the "Honey I shrunk the Kids" game. In the Current market most Studios goals will be to make it to 2025, as both small indi studios and studios attached to big companies will see walking papers.

 

[Jedi Master Radek]

For fans of the first two games it was a refreshing course-correction after Fo3, and for people who'd only played 3, it was a great flip-side to what they'd already seen, offering a more coherent and """deep""" version of the setting. If Obsidian had come out with the exact same game but in an original new setting - if the Mojave was some desert planet, the NCR were Earth authorities, the Legion were native tribal aliens, and House was some ambitious colonial governor - people would have totally slept on the game like they did with TOW.

I think that nowadays a big chunk, if not majority of NV fans haven't played either OG Fallouts or F3. The game lives its own life now.

 

[Yoomazir]

Avowed will redeem Obsidian, mark my words!

 

[scytheavatar]

The humor is that Obsidian is better off now than it likely has been in its entire existence due to the fact that they have a genuine hit in Grounded, AKA the "Honey I shrunk the Kids" game. In the Current market most Studios goals will be to make it to 2025, as both small indi studios and studios attached to big companies will see walking papers.

Pretty much this. Obsidian will be fine, it is the devs at Inxile who should be shitting their pants. Cause if Clockwork Revolution bombs I would close down the studio if I am Phil Spencer.

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

If Clockwork Revolution bombs, InXile will be condemned to work on a lower-budget game that leverages its Wasteland 3 engine and a similar IP that is also now owned by Bethesda:

 

[NaturallyCarnivorousSheep]

I'll give Avowed a chance, but yeah not on the top of my list. I'm probably more interested in Death Trash than that.

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

Clockwork Orange looks more interesting than Avowed and TOW2 combined.

 

[NaturallyCarnivorousSheep]

Clockwork orange is more interesting. Clockwork revolution on the other hand looks like slop and I'm saying this despite being positively surprised by wl3

 

[JarlFrank]

Arcanum made me fall in love with the concept of "steampunk" until I discovered other steampunk books and games and realized most of it is extremely cringe.
Cockwork Revolution looks like it's gonna be cringe.

 

[Morality Games]

Of all the large CRPGs that are about to come out, Obsidian's RPGs (Avowed, The Outer World 2) are the least interesting imo. Most of other upcoming large crpgs have some unique twists up their sleeve or really unusual settings or at least an excellent art style to make them stand out. Let's check out a few of Non-Obsidian large CRPGs:

1. Clockwork Revolution (steampunk setting, time travel)
2. EXODUS (time dilation)
3. Wyrdsong (historical fantasy Portgual setting)
4. No Rest For The Wicked (art style, verticality)
5. Dragon's Dogma 2 (pawns, combat with climb mechanic, etc...)
6. The Thaumaturge (historical Warsaw setting, Persona-like combat in a western CRPG)

... and probably many more.

Meanwhile, what is Obsidian doing? As far as I know, Obsidian is just trying to copy Bethesda's The Elder Scrolls and Fallout (with a less impressive open world and more focus on story/companion/choices & consequences). Judging from their recent output (The Outer World - one of the most bland game I have ever played), it's hard to be excited for the sequel. Say what you will about Inxile, at least they managed to restore my faith in them somewhat with Wasteland 3, so I'm actually looking forward to Clockwork Revolution and the inevitable Wasteland 4 as well.

Even as an avid crpg player, my free time is still limited, and when combine that with the fact that there are so many CRPGs to play nowadays, I have to prioritize playing which crpg stands out the most to me, and it saddens me to report that Obsidian's upcoming RPGs are currently below the bottom of the barrel of my to-play list (it means that Avowed and The Outer World 2 are not even on my radar/wishlist anymore).

Unless I'm alone in feeling this way or Obsidian somehow manage to step up their game creative-wise (and maybe writing-wise too), I seriously doubt Obsidian will ever leave an impact like Fallout New Vegas in the gaming scene again.

What about you? What do you think??

Outer Worlds sold well (really well considering it was Game Pass fodder -- more than the average Mass Effect game). It doesn't seem to have inspired anyone, but it also got fairly positive critical reception.

There is little reason to believe that aiming for average isn't going to work out for Obsidian, it's the other studios you mentioned that are risking failure by being weird.

The big risk with Avowed isn't that is is somewhat average fantasy setting, it's that the visuals in the last gameplay trailer looked kind of lame. Still, Bethesda looks worse and that's never stopped them.

 

[Abu Antar]

Avowed will redeem Obsidian, mark my words!

*Abu Antar will remember that*

 

[goregasm]

I have zero interest in avowed, as I am fairly sure it's going to be ToW in all ways possible.

I actually thoroughly enjoy Pillars, sure it's nothing but a larp/fan fic of Baldurs gate, the Sawyer balance of balance is retarded, but I actually find the first one fun and interesting in it's setting and story, the second one (especially it's setting) less so, but both are still decent and enough to keep me going, and more importantly had me looking forward to more from the series.

That said, I have a fairly strong prejudice that Avowed will kill any interest I have in the world they borrow...err..built. Now it's Baldurs gate fan fic shoved into a ES style corridor world and it will be middling at best, it also sort of looks like ass.

The clockwork game just looks like inexile are trying to spill some bioshock into arcanum, I also think steampunk is cancer (arcanum is legit though) so hard pass from me on that one as well.

 

[Riddler]

Arcanum isn't steampunk though, it's a world with magic going through the industrial revolution (and it happens to have steam engines among other things). Steampunk is just quirky retardation with the depth of a puddle.

Is there any steampunk product that is actually good? Maybe Dishonored? But that isn't "steam" I suppose.

 

[Beans00]

FNV was a good game
Kotor 2 was ok, I'm not really a fan of the engine or star wars but I would be lying if I said I didn't more or less enjoy the game.



Everything else they have made has been trash to completely mediocre.

 

[REhorror]

Obsidian blew their load with New Vegas, that's it.

 

[Herumor]

Obsidian is nothing without Avellone.

 

[Sòren]

Amateurish writing by Californian hipsters and nobodies. Evident by lore dumps and high exposition everywhere.

It's truly a credit to Deadfire's writing that it managed to bore me even though it's set in my favorite setting.

Exotic tropical area, pirates, barefoot women , gunpowder weapons, island hopping... it has everything I like.

But whenever a character opens his mouth I get bored to death. LOREDUMP LOREDUMP quirky one-liner that reeks of 21st century lingo LOREDUMP.
Fucking terrible.

i think a better example how incompetently obsidian handles their worldbuilding in PoE 1 and 2 is that someone decided it is a smart move to reveal THE BIGGEST MYSTERY IN TEH WORLD (origin of the gods) in their first installment and then manage to make it even more ridiculous by making the gods some quarreling children, who need to rely on a lvl 1 PC to solve their problems.

what did they assume what else should be interesting about their lore? that anyone says "oh wow, i cannot wait to see what that venetian trading empire looks like. it must be incredible creative, never seen before."?

 

[luj1]

i think a better example how incompetently obsidian handles their worldbuilding in PoE 1 and 2 is that someone decided it is a smart move to reveal THE BIGGEST MYSTERY IN TEH WORLD (origin of the gods) in their first installment and then manage to make it even more ridiculous by making the gods some quarreling children, who need to rely on a lvl 1 PC to solve their problems.

Yeah

Numanuma did this too