Obsidian's Pillars of Eternity [BETA RELEASED, GO TO THE NEW THREAD]

[Roguey]

Noticed the title update, good luck with that when Obsidian is going to be closed for the rest of this week (well technically they're back for the last two days).

New stretch goals are pretty much a lock. I hope they do get additional funds to buy more wilderness areas, cause Josh said at the moment they have a little less than what BG2 had, which was seven. That's not going to live up to ~player expectations~.

I can take or leave additional companions.

 

[Delterius]

I wonder if a 'chaotic' learning spell system could be made fun and non-exploitable.
Lets say every wizard (== low number of slots, or cooldown) spell has a very very minute chance of 'mutating' into another spell, and in addition, those mutations have a small chance of being learned. The spell would be truly 'chaotic' that is modifying or adding a effect, so you could end up with more powerful fireball by accident or a 'iceball' or something.

Essentially, a turbo version of BG2's Wild Mage. Where randomness is designed to be fun, not merely part of the puzzle.

I'd love a spell system like that.

 

[Ninjerk]

Noticed the title update, good luck with that when Obsidian is going to be closed for the rest of this week (well technically they're back for the last two days).

New stretch goals are pretty much a lock. I hope they do get additional funds to buy more wilderness areas, cause Josh said at the moment they have a little less than what BG2 had, which was seven. That's not going to live up to ~player expectations~.

I can take or leave additional companions.

I'm sure it's only a matter of time until some player expectation or another is shattered and everyone wants their money back.

 

[Excidium]

IWD 2.5 when people expected BG3.

 

[Grunker]

IWD 2.5 when people expected BG3.

IWD 2.5 is what you've gathered from Avellone's and Zeit's talks/tweets/etc. about writing, plot and NPCs?

You know, just because this thread is about going all aspie on the system, the game still has other elements.

My picture of the game is very far from IWD considering the amount of text and the type of quest design they're talking about.

 

[Dreaad]

That's why he said IWD 2.5 the .5 is the story being added on to the lengthy non stop combat dungeon.

 

[Grunker]

New stretch goals are pretty much a lock. I hope they do get additional funds to buy more wilderness areas, cause Josh said at the moment they have a little less than what BG2 had, which was seven. That's not going to live up to ~player expectations~.

I still hold that i was dumb as shit to promise an additional large city. I hope for more wilderness as well, but honestly I'll be pleasantly surprised if we get two wholesome cities with enough shit to do.

That's why he said IWD 2.5 the .5 is the story being added on to the lengthy non stop combat dungeon.

Both BGs had tons and tons (and tons) of combat. Basically the sole difference between IWDs and BGs were:

1) IWDs took place mainly in dungeons.

2) BGs had A LOT more content and writing, due to having bigger budgets and bigger scopes.

 

[Ninjerk]

I'll be happy if we're not creeping around in sewers fighting rats, slime, and zombies.

 

[Dreaad]

Both BGs had tons and tons (and tons) of combat. Basically the sole difference between IWDs and BGs were:

1) IWDs took place mainly in dungeons.

2) BGs had A LOT more content and writing, due to having bigger budgets and bigger scopes.

I was essentially saying that IWD 2.5 is BG2 sometimes people misread my grim dark Russian humor. Honestly I don't see how anyone can worry about the story in an Obsidian game, story is essentially the only thing I have seen Obsidian do well. We shall see how they manage to bring their own game mechanics into it, though honestly I am skeptical due to how often Obsidian creates messy gameplay (I guess since they usually use someone else's engine it's possible they may do better by themselves).

 

[Sensuki]

I do expect Excidium to be partially right, as they are somewhat railroading your progression through the game now, as opposed to before.

 

[Grunker]

I do expect Excidium to be partially right, as they are somewhat railroading your progression through the game now, as opposed to before.

Haven't read any of that, sounds really fuckin' shitty tbh.

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[Arkeus]

I do expect Excidium to be partially right, as they are somewhat railroading your progression through the game now, as opposed to before.

Haven't read any of that, sounds really fuckin' shitty tbh.

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In the 'you got to leave akathla before doing the underdark' way, yes. E.G, there are story check-points for certain maps, iirc, though the quote is much more vague than that even.

 

[Sensuki]

I think it will be a little bit more restrictive than that.

 

[Grunker]

what to believe, what to believe

I have no problems with BG2-ish restrictions, even if that game was a bit less open than BG1 which had like 2 story-locks, one of which can be almost removed with mods without hurting the story (i.e. there's no reason to bar the player from the first four Cloakwood maps + forest areas until after Nashkel Mines and Bandit Camp).

If Excidium is right and it's more like IWD where you're funneled from a series of connected maps to a series of connected maps, I will be severely disappointed, yes.

 

[Sensuki]

I think it will be somewhere in between. It won't be as restrictive as the linear progression of the IWDs but there will be content blocks (as in area transition blocks) before you pass through certain story gates. There will definitely be limitation in Chapter 1. After that, who can say.

 

[Grunker]

I think it will be somewhere in between. It won't be as restrictive as the linear progression of the IWDs but there will be content blocks (as in area transition blocks) before you pass through certain story gates. There will definitely be limitation in Chapter 1. After that, who can say.

BG2 was already pretty restrictive, is my point. If it's more restrictive than that... doesn't it become IWD? I guess something akin to Planescape: Torment lies between, if we picture City #2 to be a hub like the Hive as well. The story could funnel you from hub + a few wilderness areas to a new hub + a few wilderness areas.

Still, that sounds pretty shitty, honestly.

 

[Tigranes]

How was BG2 restrictive? You have a railroaded couple of hours, and then you can basically do 60-70% of the game after that. Then there's a 3-4 hour segment you choose to go through with at any point, and finally, the ending. Sure, one thing it could have done is divorce the Underdark from the main story, but I thought it was a fair tradeoff in terms of plot and progression. It certainly doesn't compare at all to IWD1/2 where there was hardly any point having a world map.

 

[tuluse]

BG2 was already pretty restrictive, is my point. If it's more restrictive than that... doesn't it become IWD? I guess something akin to Planescape: Torment lies between, if we picture City #2 to be a hub like the Hive as well. The story could funnel you from hub + a few wilderness areas to a new hub + a few wilderness areas.

Still, that sounds pretty shitty, honestly.

That sounds pretty reasonable for 4 million dollars.

I was hoping for more one-off locations like BG1 and Arcanum had.

 

[Sensuki]

BG2 was already pretty restrictive, is my point.

And between BG2 and IWD is mine. Basically I think it will be continuing along a relatively linear main plot, but with optional side areas to explore. Maybe you will get to choose whether to go to Defiance Bay or Twin Elms first, I am not sure.

It would be cool if you could just go anywhere, but I'm just not sure they're gonna let you do that.

I'm pretty sure that ALL of the locations we know of - Dyrford, Defiance Bay, Twin Elms, Valley of Hector (Animat Factory), the wilderness areas in the Prologue, Stronghold, Caed Nua and Gilded Vale will all be plot related.

The BG1 style Wilderness areas will probably be the only ones that aren't.

 

[Infinitron]

...unless Obsidian gets people to pay up for them stretch goals!

Wonder what's gonna happen with that.

 

[ZagorTeNej]

How was BG2 restrictive? You have a railroaded couple of hours, and then you can basically do 60-70% of the game after that. Then there's a 3-4 hour segment you choose to go through with at any point, and finally, the ending. Sure, one thing it could have done is divorce the Underdark from the main story, but I thought it was a fair tradeoff in terms of plot and progression. It certainly doesn't compare at all to IWD1/2 where there was hardly any point having a world map.

I wouldn't say Underdark is a 3-4 hour segment, it can last quite a bit longer than that depending on your playing style, how thorough you are etc. Sahuagin City (which is optional), Brynnlaw and Suldanesselar are relatively short though and new wilderness areas that become available are nothing special either (though there's a nice adventure party fight in one of them).

Overall I'd say you're right, the majority of BG2's content is available basically right away (in Chapter 2) which is something I'm pretty sure we wouldn't be seeing in PoE (and that is very different to IWD1 and 2 as you said where it's basically a linear ride from the beginning to the end) even if they had a much bigger budget, less constraints etc. considering Josh's attitude toward Athkatla being so dense in quests/content and his robotic game design approach, we can't have one player going through the main quest significantly overleveled compared to the other now can we? Of course that can be partially solved through level scaling main quest path encounters though (thankfully) he's mostly against that as well.

 

[Infinitron]

Hmmm, I don't think Josh's opposition to BG2's structure is due concerns about "overlevelling" or some other game-mechanic related concern. My impression is that he considers it bad in terms of narrative and pacing.

 

[ZagorTeNej]

The guy's obsessed about balance in every way, it's very hard to balance combat encounters on the main path when the potential level/XP gap between player who'll just rush to advance the main story and the one who'll explore everything is so significant as it can be in BG2 (yes, I realize PoE might have a much low power curve compared to BG2 overall so it would be a different scenario either way but still), I also think it's one of the reason they decided against kill XP.

Not that I'm against that view, I don't like it when I stomp over supposed big threats on the main game path just because I like to explore everything, do every side quest etc. and end up being overleveled as a consequence.

 

[Stompa]

it's very hard to balance combat encounters on the main path when the potential level/XP gap between player who'll just rush to advance the main story and the one who'll explore everything is so significant as it can be in BG2 .

Level scaling

 

[Sensuki]

I am not putting any more money in.

it's very hard to balance combat encounters on the main path when the potential level/XP gap between player who'll just rush to advance the main story and the one who'll explore everything is so significant as it can be in BG2 .

Level scaling

You know, as much as that is a troll, I think you're spot on. I think that some content gating will happen because of 'balance' purposes. Some of it will be story based.