Obsidian's Pillars of Eternity [BETA RELEASED, GO TO THE NEW THREAD]

[Jagged Appliance]

I don't think Athkathla was specifically mentioned, just that there would be 2 "big" cities.

2 Athkathlas isn't feasible. If they attempt that they will fail.

 

[Excidium]

Maybe they meant just scale and not content density.

 

[Rake]

Athkathla was specifically mentioned along Baldur's Gate as examples of "big cities". They mentioned that PE would have already such a "big"city, and the would add a second one.
I don't believe that both cities would be as content dense as Athkatla, but they can't go way less because then they will fail expectations. They knew what they promished.

 

[Ramireza]

After the TERRIBLE W2 Beta release my expectations tends to zero for this one :/

 

[Excidium]

Why?

 

[Bonerbill]

I don't think Athkathla was specifically mentioned, just that there would be 2 "big" cities.

2 Athkathlas isn't feasible. If they attempt that they will fail.

Oh really? I didn't know you could see the future.

 

[Grunker]

After the TERRIBLE W2 Beta release my expectations tends to zero for this one :/

Why? Judging by design statements, the people behind this game seem to be s lot more competent.

 

[Chaotic_Heretic]

After the TERRIBLE W2 Beta release my expectations tends to zero for this one :/

Why? Judging by design statements, the people behind this game seem to be s lot more competent.

WL2 was built for the neu X-COm OMG TB IS SO OLDSKOOL HARDCORE crowd.

PoE was pretty honest from the get go, a RTwP dungeon crawler more welcoming to those who cannot into nuanced rules. Although it was leaning more towards BG2 style with perhaps open Fallout style quest and now its mostly revised to linear content gated IWD 2.5.

Difference here is Sawyer was reasonably honest about the scope from the get go and modified expectations by clearly stating hsi design goals (low power curve, vaibilkity of character builds, no dump stats, uniform way stats work mechanically, gamsit approach yadda yadda) while Fargo was bullshitting us with "unparalleled CnC" and stuff.

Although, Now I think ill enjoy PoE more, despite it being RTwP, over Wasteland 2... at least I wot go with the expectation of playing a party based fallout in PoE. Ill be looking at an IE sucessor somewhere between IWD2 and BG2.

 

[Roguey]

As far as i'm concerned, he made thr right decision cutting filler widerness areas (the worst part of BG1) to have more content in cities and cool dungeons.

That and wilderness areas are the most expensive/time-consuming areas to make (which is why they're outsourcing all of them).

Also the two cities will probably be around as big as Athkatla when it comes to map size (at least Defiance Bay will) but not quest content. Reminder that Josh hate hate hated the content density of Athkatla so even if it were feasible to deliver that much content in a city that size he still wouldn't want to do it.

Twin Elms is probably going to end up as Trademeetx2.

 

[tuluse]

That and wilderness areas are the most expensive/time-consuming areas to make (which is why they're outsourcing all of them).

Also the two cities will probably be around as big as Athkatla when it comes to map size (at least Defiance Bay will) but not quest content. Reminder that Josh hate hate hated the content density of Athkatla so even if it were feasible to deliver that much content in a city that size he still wouldn't want to do it.

Twin Elms is probably going to end up as Trademeetx2.

I was hoping we'd get two approximately equal sized cites (by all measures of size). I'm tired of the one big city trope in RPGs.

 

[Delterius]

What an oddly random and specific thing to be tired of.

 

[Semper]

That and wilderness areas are the most expensive/time-consuming areas to make (which is why they're outsourcing all of them).

i doubt that a wilderness area is more expensive in production than a detailed city area. i guess they're outsourcing those maps because they are the more generic ones where diversity can be achieved through relatively few assets. obsidian shares those props and a small description with whoever is making the outdoor areas, and they just puzzle around. it's cheap because obsidian doesn't really have to monitor the process - placing trees and stones ain't that prone to failure. in exchange obsidian has more time to come up with detailed dungeons.

 

[cherry blossom]

I'm tired of small backyard towns masquerading as big cities.

I was never content with those but I'm particularly spoiled after the Assassin's Creed series.

 

[Rake]

I'm tired of small backyard towns masquerading as big cities.

I was never content with those but I'm particularly spoiled after the Assassin's Creed series.

Athkatla was a small backyard town masquerading as big city?

 

[Linden]

Also the two cities will probably be around as big as Athkatla when it comes to map size (at least Defiance Bay will) but not quest content. Reminder that Josh hate hate hated the content density of Athkatla so even if it were feasible to deliver that much content in a city that size he still wouldn't want to do it.

Then what are they going to fill the Athkatla-sized cities with? Fluff? Pretty scenery? For me, big size = lots of quests. If Obsidian is going to cut the quest content, then there's really no point in making big cities...

 

[SCO]

I'm tired of small backyard towns masquerading as big cities.

I was never content with those but I'm particularly spoiled after the Assassin's Creed series.

Athkatla was a small backyard town masquerading as big city?

yes. Game towns are this by definition.

 

[Suicidal]

You know what would be cool? An RPG that takes place inside one really big (as in, real life big) city and maybe its outskirts. Maybe there already is a game like that that I'm not aware of...

 

[Athelas]

You mean like Dragon Age II?

 

[Suicidal]

You mean like Dragon Age II?

Haven't played it. I actually don't even know much about it besides those I want to be a dragon screenshots and the fact that it's shit.

Any proper, well-made RPG examples?

 

[slowdive]

You mean like Dragon Age II?

Haven't played it. I actually don't even know much about it besides those I want to be a dragon screenshots and the fact that it's shit.

Any proper, well-made RPG examples?

Bard's Tale 1

 

[Grunker]

Haven't played it. I actually don't even know much about it besides those I want to be a dragon screenshots and the fact that it's shit.

Any proper, well-made RPG examples?

It's a shit game, but it is pretty much the definition of what you're looking for. DA2 actually tries s lot of cool shit like following a personal story spanning multiple years in the same location (watching the location change). Unfortunately, it fails pretty bad.

 

[Suicidal]

You mean like Dragon Age II?

Haven't played it. I actually don't even know much about it besides those I want to be a dragon screenshots and the fact that it's shit.

Any proper, well-made RPG examples?

Bard's Tale 1

Haven't played that. Actually now that I think about it Planescape:Torment is almost like that since you spend most of the game in Sigil - the hobo and nobility districts (forgot how they were called) and the catacombs are all parts of the city. And they are quite large areas with lots of quests and stuff to do. If I remember correctly (I've played it long ago), you spend most of your time in those areas and the last third or maybe less running around through Ravel's maze and Hell before coming back and finding the fortress portal.

Would be cool to have something like that only larger in scope.

 

[cherry blossom]

I'm tired of small backyard towns masquerading as big cities.

I was never content with those but I'm particularly spoiled after the Assassin's Creed series.

Athkatla was a small backyard town masquerading as big city?

No, Athkatla was fine. We shouldn't expect anything less.

 

[Delterius]

Then what are they going to fill the Athkatla-sized cities with? Fluff? Pretty scenery? For me, big size = lots of quests. If Obsidian is going to cut the quest content, then there's really no point in making big cities...

I think Sawyer would agree that the content in the Athkatlan proper is fine. His issues with the cities' pacing likely have more to do with the numerous plot hooks that bring the player out of the city, into multiple locations at the same time. I'd disagree with him even then, though.

 

[Roguey]

I was hoping we'd get two approximately equal sized cites (by all measures of size). I'm tired of the one big city trope in RPGs.

Twice the content as Trademeet would still be a lot of content. And of course I'm speculating.

i doubt that a wilderness area is more expensive in production than a detailed city area. i guess they're outsourcing those maps because they are the more generic ones where diversity can be achieved through relatively few assets. obsidian shares those props and a small description with whoever is making the outdoor areas, and they just puzzle around. it's cheap because obsidian doesn't really have to monitor the process - placing trees and stones ain't that prone to failure. in exchange obsidian has more time to come up with detailed dungeons.

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/64506-to-all-of-our-backers-and-fans/?view=findpost&p=1382837

We will have more indoors than outdoors because outdoor maps take significantly longer to create than dungeons or interiors.

Of course outdoors probably counts cities as well but those cities also have plenty of building interiors.

Then what are they going to fill the Athkatla-sized cities with? Fluff? Pretty scenery? For me, big size = lots of quests. If Obsidian is going to cut the quest content, then there's really no point in making big cities...

There'll be lots of quests, just not as many as Athkatla had. Look at the content density of Freeside/The Strip/North Vegas Square/Westside to see a city that's acceptable to Sawyer.

You know what would be cool? An RPG that takes place inside one really big (as in, real life big) city and maybe its outskirts. Maybe there already is a game like that that I'm not aware of...

Bloodlines (Santa Monica and Los Angeles), The Witcher (after the prologue, largely takes place in Vizima and the surrounding areas), and Divinity 2's Flames of Vengeance expansion (entirely in Aleroth).

Though none of them meet your criteria for size since they're all abstracted. Fallout 3 takes place in DC but fuck that game.