Obsidian's Pillars of Eternity [BETA RELEASED, GO TO THE NEW THREAD]

[Roguey]

Josh-report: He went to work yesterday. Of course Mr. "I don't like parties" wouldn't stay up all night unlike many of his other coworkers.

You think KotOR's hub-design (the archetypical BioWare formula) is better than bloated BG2?

The linear beginning was too long, but otherwise, yes. Better for combat/dialogue pacing and not having your journal fill up with a million entries.

 

[Grunker]

Josh-report: He went to work yesterday. Of course Mr. "I don't like parties" wouldn't stay up all night unlike many of his other coworkers.

You think KotOR's hub-design (the archetypical BioWare formula) is better than bloated BG2?

The linear beginning was too long, but otherwise, yes. Better for combat/dialogue pacing and not having your journal fill up with a million entries.

u suck lol

 

[Ramireza]

The only real issue that I ever had with the BG2 quest bloat of chapter 2 dealt with your travelling companions. Though I like the idea of some quests needing to be accomplished within a certain time frame, I think it was the wrong decision to tie these quests to the first NPCs that you recruit in the Copper Coronet. It is very possible to be balls deep in a side quest when Korgan decides it's time to bail to find his book or whatever, with no chance to make it back to the Graveyard District in time. My wife's first (and only) attempt at the game ended prematurely, having fallen into a similar trap with Anomen - apparently he turns hostile and tries to kill Aerie to boot (not so certain if it can actually happen, though this anecdote is told and retold whenever the game comes up among friends) .

I must admit that this one of the things i liked very much in BG2. It felt realistic and gave the the NPC´s soul (i mean that they have REALY their own Agendas). The "Anomen thing" happened to me too (i was in the middle of the Firekraag Dungeon) but i had enough time to turn back and do his quest (wich was great tbh).

 

[skyst]

I like the idea of it. I think it was a mistake for the first NPCs to operate that way, however.

Also, the fact that a quest timer can run out at any time just doesn't make much sense to me - like in your example, Anomen is all, "Sorry boss, I know we've spent the past week clearing through this dragon's dungeon and slaying evil around every corner, but I'm just gonna leave and go take my test now, bye!" I've also had NPCs bail on me while I'm actually on my way to do their quest, while I'm in the correct zone travelling to the spot where there quest triggers. I know that anything else is probably beyond the limitations of the game, but it's still frustrating. The game can't read the player's mind, but you'd think the characters would be discussing their intent to do that quest next. Which is probably why no other games really have a system like that.

 

[Gondolin]

The quest density of chapter 2 was a major part of what made Athkatla feel like a big city. Sawyer can go squat on a halberd.

 

[Scruffy]

i can't believe that someone is complaining about TOO MUCH CONTENT OH NO
fuck this shit, athkatla was great PRECISELY because there was so much stuff to do

 

[Sensuki]

IMBALANCE

 

[Gondolin]

Then more content should've been added to the other chapters.

 

[Mortmal]

i can't believe that someone is complaining about TOO MUCH CONTENT OH NO
fuck this shit, athkatla was great PRECISELY because there was so much stuff to do

That's exactly my feeling, there's nothing better in a rpg than being lost , having an overwhelming number of choices of quests and location to explore. I dont remember a game failing because there was too much content .

 

[Monad]

Who decided it was imbalanced? Is there some law that says you have to have a certain amount of content throughout?

 

[Chaotic_Heretic]

Josh is displaying a lazy and casual coddling defeatist attitude.

Content can make the city feel big and confusing for casual players?
Instead of fine tuning the pacing... REDUCE CONTENT.

 

[Rake]

Who decided it was imbalanced?

 

[Gondolin]

Who decided it was imbalanced? Is there some law that says you have to have a certain amount of content throughout?

There isn't, but it's better for the story. In BG2, the story pacing goes like this:

Chapter 1: main story drives the chapter.

Chapter 2: main story takes a loooooong vacation while you do a shitton of quests.

Chapter 3: resume main story even though players may have only a dim recollection of it by now

etc etc

In theory it would be a good idea to spread those quests around. Or, as I said, to add more of them to the other chapters in order to keep the whole thing from getting so lopsided.

 

[Scruffy]

Twice the content as Trademeet would still be a lot of content. And of course I'm speculating.

let's see...i remember the djinns, the skinchanger, the warring families and the druid stuff
what else was there? that's 4 / 5 quests
so 8 / 10 quests doesn't really feel like a "lot" of content to me

Chapter 3: resume main story even though players may have only a dim recollection of it by now

what is this, alzheimer?

 

[Sensuki]

Who decided it was imbalanced? Is there some law that says you have to have a certain amount of content throughout?

Are you the Monad of Creation ?

 

[Monad]

Who decided it was imbalanced? Is there some law that says you have to have a certain amount of content throughout?

There isn't, but it's better for the story. In BG2, the story pacing goes like this:

Chapter 1: main story drives the chapter.

Chapter 2: main story takes a loooooong vacation while you do a shitton of quests.

Chapter 3: resume main story even though players may have only a dim recollection of it by now

etc etc

In theory it would be a good idea to spread those quests around. Or, as I said, to add more of them to the other chapters in order to keep the whole thing from getting so lopsided.

Actually that fit the story, youre collecting gold to pay off the thieves or whatever. Maybe they should've put in a time limit but people would complain then too.

 

[Gondolin]

what is this, alzheimer?

More like a loss of focus. If the player is supposed to save Imoen and kick Irenicus's ass, it may not be a good idea to let them out of sight for so long. The dream sequences might help or they might not. I remember them being rather underwhelming because Irenicus kept talking about gifts and power and I had no idea what he meant. I loved David Warner's voice, though.

"You bore me mageling!"

 

[Gondolin]

Actually that fit the story, youre collecting gold to pay off the thieves or whatever. Maybe they should've put in a time limit but people would complain then too.

True, but the story loses any sense of urgency. Irenicus can wait, Imoen can wait, I got shit to do. Oh, he's torturing Imoen? I'm fighting Firkraag, man, I can't be bothered right now.

 

[Lhynn]

Irenicus couldnt have been more obvious in the dreams... well, it wasnt really irenicus, but the message was p. clear, your latent abilities are that of a god.

 

[Monad]

Maybe the solution is to make it so that quests in later chapters in the cities are affected by what quests you did earlier and how they played out. Or just get rid of the chapter structure.

 

[DefJam101]

forum is starting to look pretty imbalanced. too much content in this thread

 

[Gondolin]

Or just get rid of the chapter structure.

That would probably be the simplest solution.

 

[ZagorTeNej]

True, but the story loses any sense of urgency. Irenicus can wait, Imoen can wait, I got shit to do. Oh, he's torturing Imoen? I'm fighting Firkraag, man, I can't be bothered right now.

Except it's possible that my character doesn't give a shit about Imoen, he just wants to get revenge on Irenicus for torturing him (you have a number of dialogue options to say as much so it isn't larping or something) but will do so in due time (no rush). Remember you can tell Imoen to fuck off right after your reunion (in the Spellhold maze), no companion is forced on you.

 

[ZagorTeNej]

forum is starting to look pretty imbalanced. too much content in this thread

Yeah, we need an update so we can proceed into the next chapter.

 

[Gondolin]

Except it's possible that my character doesn't give a shit about Imoen, he just wants to get revenge on Irenicus for torturing him (you have a number of dialogue options to say as much so it isn't larping or something) but will do so in due time (no rush). Remember you can tell Imoen to fuck off right after your reunion (in the Spellhold maze), no companion is forced on you.

True.