Obsidian's Pillars of Eternity [BETA RELEASED, GO TO THE NEW THREAD]

[Gondolin]

Yeah, we need an update so we can proceed into the next chapter.

We need to pay Josh more gold. 15,000 coins were not enough.

 

[Jedi Exile]

A perfectly balanced RPG would be perfectly boring. So fuck balance

 

[Scruffy]

A perfectly balanced RPG would be perfectly boring.

how would that work?

 

[Semper]

Instead of fine tuning the pacing... REDUCE CONTENT.

in which universe is evening out content similar to reducing it? because that's what mr balance said.

 

[Chaotic_Heretic]

He is reducing content in the big city

 

[hiver]

Do any of you actually know that for a fact? or did someone maybe say that a city in PE wont be as big and as full of content as Athkatla?

Which could mean, you know, it may have content amounts anywhere between 100% Athkatla and Zero Athkatla.
Going a bit binary again are we?

 

[ZagorTeNej]

Do any of you actually know that for a fact? or did someone maybe say that a city in PE wont be as big and as full of content as Athkatla?

Which could mean, you know, it may have content amounts anywhere between 100% Athkatla and Zero Athkatla.
Going a bit binary again are we?

Don't know about size of the city (or cities, since game promised 2 big cities) but regarding content, yeah the lead designer of the game basically said that (and criticized Athkatla for being so flooded with quests/content) so I'd say 100% Athkatla (content-wise) is out of the question.

Roguey posted Josh's quotes on it two pages back.

 

[Infinitron]

http://jesawyer.tumblr.com/post/71977675003/rethorically-in-eternity-are-there-any-curious

osvir asked: Rethorically: In Eternity, are there any curious blacksmiths? Inventors or similar that try experimental crafting or similar by using magical elements? Souls? Could a curious blacksmith like this, regarding lore & theory, build a Wand Gun (Wand = Barrel) in Eternity? Or a Wand Sword (Wand = Sword Grip)? Necromantic Blacksmiths?

Most blacksmiths make mundane things (not even weapons or armor), but there are smiths who try to use different metals and soul magic. The most prominent example is “skein steel”, which is also called “copper steel” (though this is a misnomer). Skein steel was created by a weapon smith who wanted to recreate the qualities of what is called “Durgan” or “battery” steel. The smiths of Durgan’s Battery were able to control the application of heat to their metal with great precision — but through presumably mechanical, not magical, means.

Skein steel is made by also controlling heat precisely, but it uses animancy to draw a soul’s memories out of a vessel (typically a living body) toward a copper surface, igniting the memories to produce the flame. The contraptions used to control this process allow the smith to adjust the speed of the unraveling and the heat of the flame. Copper melts at a lower temperature than steel and does not alloy well with it, but flecks of copper often become embedded in skein steel, giving it its other nickname. Though almost all magic uses some form of soul energy, it’s extremely uncommon for anything to destroy a housed soul’s memories. Because skein steel requires a steady, continuous flame, it specifically needs a living (preferably old) subject.

Magical implements are quite fast and accurate, but not very powerful. Wizards all learn how to selectively expand the area of a wand’s (or rod’s, or sceptre’s) effect, but a single shot from an implement lacks the punch of even a hunting bow. It’s conceivable that someone might make a weapon that also has the properties of an implement for purposes of allowing wizards to take advantage of their Blast ability.

 

[hiver]

Do any of you actually know that for a fact? or did someone maybe say that a city in PE wont be as big and as full of content as Athkatla?

Which could mean, you know, it may have content amounts anywhere between 100% Athkatla and Zero Athkatla.
Going a bit binary again are we?

Don't know about size of the city (or cities, since game promised 2 big cities) but regarding content, yeah the lead designer of the game basically said that (and criticized Athkatla for being so flooded with quests/content) so I'd say 100% Athkatla (content-wise) is out of the question.

Roguey posted Josh's quotes on it two pages back.

And how does that mean Zero Athkatla?

What if its 80%? Or 50%? or 62%? or 44%?

Does every city need to be as big as Athkatla and should one always try to force that much content - instead of just doing what fits for the location?

I counted about 60 big and small locations on the PE last map.
While BG2 had 1 big city, and what.. 6 - 7 other big and medium size dungeons/locations. Plenty of stuff but concentrated. While PE will have it more spread around. Obviously.
Looking at the world map - it looks much more dense in content then BG2 world map.

Just imagine Athkatla exploded and all those small areas, underground location and sub quests fell all over the worlds surface.
And it would still leave plenty in the ruins.

 

[Lhynn]

A perfectly balanced RPG would be perfectly boring.

how would that work?

Well, balance is to organic gameplay what a rapist is to a passed out woman with no clothes, it fucks all over.
If it isnt broken dont fix it because you end up with a dry, generic experience.

Sawyer takes balance too far, i just hope it doesnt end up being shit.

 

[Zed]

They should reveal some "lore characters" (e.g. Elminster, Volo, Drizzt). There's been a lot about things (this steel is so strong omg) and events (they invaded the lands omg) but barely anything about historical characters; kings, heroes, prominent leaders of factions, etc.

 

[janjetina]

I counted about 60 big and small locations on the PE last map.
While BG2 had 1 big city, and what.. 6 - 7 other big and medium size dungeons/locations. Plenty of stuff but concentrated. While PE will have it more spread around. Obviously.
Looking at the world map - it looks much more dense in content then BG2 world map.

Just imagine Athkatla exploded and all those small areas, underground location and sub quests fell all over the worlds surface.
And it would still leave plenty in the ruins.

That's what I can hope for (the best), but this is what I expect (the worst), given that it's Sawyer we are talking about: Sozzy areas.

 

[Mortmal]

He really said athkatla is flooded with quest and content and thats a bad thing ?

I am not digging in the thread to find quotes so i choose to believe it. They should have been honest and tell us upfront that the game is going to be tailored to the casual player taste ,i am not backing to get that . If you want to cater to average joe needs, then go greenlight or find a publisher , dont ask me any money , else i may pay a visit : One promised feature removed, one finger chopped , we will have a nice civil discussion...

I can understand him telling us he cant do athlaka quantity of content cause of low bugdet , but telling its cause of design choice, then i am really really worried. Maybe its my fault too , i should never have trusted a guy liking 4E d&d so much .....

 

[hiver]

I counted about 60 big and small locations on the PE last map.
While BG2 had 1 big city, and what.. 6 - 7 other big and medium size dungeons/locations. Plenty of stuff but concentrated. While PE will have it more spread around. Obviously.
Looking at the world map - it looks much more dense in content then BG2 world map.

Just imagine Athkatla exploded and all those small areas, underground location and sub quests fell all over the worlds surface.
And it would still leave plenty in the ruins.

That's what I can hope for (the best), but this is what I expect (the worst), given that it's Sawyer we are talking about: Sozzy areas.

Never played SoZ. Bad huh? - but it was an expansion, that purpusefully tried to do something different about the gameplay, as i understand.

He really said athkatla is flooded with quest and content and thats a bad thing ?

No he didnt.

I waded into the brown depths of this thread, and i got only deep enough to grab this and escape for the surface - because my rubber suit was starting to melt - and its the last damn good rubber suit i have!

JS: It’s hard to say right now because we’re still developing our wilderness stuff. There’s a lot of stuff in the cities. They’re big and, more than being big, they’re very dense. There’s a lot of quests in the cities. A lot of stuff to do.


We are making wilderness areas right now. We want those to feel like they’re fun to explore and have good density.
Like BG1, pretty low on density. BG2, very very high. In this case the answer is actually in the middle. A little more density in the wildernesses but still making them feel like open like you’re exploring and finding things rather than just constantly tripping over encounters and stuff like that.

 

[Mortmal]

Ah well thanks hiver for swimming in the various roguey's organic secretions

 

[Dreaad]

^ Lol what, there plenty of things to "find" and "explore" in Athkatla. Just because there is a lot of content it doesn't mean the exploration somehow suffers. Boo fucking hoo everywhere I turn there is a quest . As for the pacing... I think it suited BG2 just fine... sure you were railroaded onto the main quest, but you know your soul was ripped from your body meaning that you were dying.... You can more or less explain away doing quests to make money/get information to save Imoen. Then the shit hits the fan and you don't have time to help strangers.

 

[GarfunkeL]

Sozzy's problem was that most of the locations were extremely tiny. Coupled with the loading times, it made the expansion frustrating. Load, load, load, encounter a "dungeon" of three rooms, load, load, load, walk elsewhere on map, load, load, load, explore a "dungeon" of four rooms, load, load, load...

 

[Infinitron]

Ah well thanks hiver for swimming in the various roguey's organic secretions

Hiver's wrong. Sawyer most definitely said that Athkatla being flooded with quests is a bad thing.

http://new.spring.me/#!/JESawyer/q/449392305086952316?rcs=true

A lot of the problems I had with BG2 had more to do with specific design choices than with the overall style of the game. Avoiding (or ignoring) the problems I had with it while still having a similar style of game is pretty easy, IMO. Taking the specific things I listed a long time ago:

* CNPCs - Many of their introductions didn't sit well with me and I felt that there were too many who didn't have an equal amount of development given to them. While it was great that so many of them had a ton of quest content, I would have preferred a smaller list of companions with more attention to each one. This is what we said we were going to do at the start of the Kickstarter and it's what we're still planning to do.

* Being required to find/save Imoen - I didn't like it then and I still don't. I wouldn't make the player rescue an NPC with whom he or she may or may not have a positive relationship. It's a very specific plot point and easy to not do. I understand that a lot of people have no problem with the rescue plot, which is totally fine, but I don't think that particular plot point needs to be repeated in PE.

* Style of dialogue - I prefer naturalistic -- some would say "dry" -- dialogue. BG2's characters are much more expressive. This is a personal thing and I recognize that most players *don't* like the same style of dialogue that I do. What I strictly prefer and what I write and have others write are not the same thing. My characters in F:NV are still on the dry end of the spectrum (e.g. Arcade Gannon, Chief Hanlon, Joshua Graham), but there are plenty of more flamboyant, expressive characters in the game that other writers developed.

* Being flooded with quests in Athkatla - To be honest, I don't think is a controversial opinion! I've seen many other players say the same thing. BG2 has a crazy amount of quests, which is great, but the density in Athkatla was a little too crazy. I think those quests should have been spread out or staggered in some other way. PE is going to have more of an exploration focus than BG2 (though not as much as BG), so I believe that will help spread the content out more.

Even though I had those problems with BG2, my job as a lead designer and project director is not to create content that appeals specifically to my tastes. Obviously I would have a difficult time making a game that I *disliked*, but I have (and continue to) push for elements I feel that players will ultimately enjoy even if I'm not super thrilled about it. That's my job.

 

[hiver]

Ah well thanks hiver for swimming in the various roguey's organic secretions

Its not roqueys excrement im swiming in the codex, though he/she adds to the overall aroma from time to time.

Ah, there we go, the telepathic binary Infinotron!
:applause:

* Being flooded with quests in Athkatla - To be honest, I don't think is a controversial opinion! I've seen many other players say the same thing. BG2 has a crazy amount of quests, which is great, but the density in Athkatla was a little too crazy. I think those quests should have been spread out or staggered in some other way. PE is going to have more of an exploration focus than BG2 (though not as much as BG), so I believe that will help spread the content out more.

That actually confirms what i said.

BG locations were very dense in content - because there was fucking few of them in the whole fucking game. Especially Athkatla - with a very good reason for it - having all of the game hapenning in 6-7 locations and absolutely nothing else on the world map!
While PoE will have those amounts of content spread over the world more. As it actually does - as i actually said.

There isnt a single thing in that sentence that says cities in PoE will be empty fucking farts!

 

[LivingOne]

Correct. Any class can use any gear, though classes often have bonuses with specific types of weapons (e.g. wizards gain bonuses with wands, rods, and sceptres via their Blast passive AoE ability).

Was the way classes get advantages from gear already known,right?
http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/64...e-any-weapon-and-wear-any-armor/#entry1403835

 

[hiver]

Someone should add a question about any gear giving any negative effects on character abilities.
To clarify the matters.

Clearly, using armor will prevent Monks to collect wounds and so play directly against that class biggest advantage.
A Mage wielding a sword wont be able to use it as good as a fighter or a rogue - obviously. Would wearing heavy armor cause any reductions in some other capabilities? (i never though not being able to use magic when wearing armor was a smart thing, i find the concept extremely stupid but mostly unavoidable, in such simple magic and spells systems and setups, as games that use it have)

And i expect other classes would suffer different consequences for using equipment not exactly fit for their design - but it would be nice to get more details about it.

 

[Sensuki]

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/64747-issues-with-npcitem-surveys/page-4#entry1404694

1. Yes, people in the same culture often share names, regardless of race. Orlans dominantly come from a few areas: Eir Glanfath (where they tend to have Glanfathan names), the Dyrwood (Glanfathan or Aedyran names), and Ixamitl (loosely, Nahautl names). PM me your ideas.

2.

a) There are quite a few military structures/fortified areas in the Dyrwood ranging from fortified cities to castles. The Dyrwood does not have a standing army, but many erls keep professional soldiers organized in groups the size of a platoon or (for high-conflict areas) a company even during peacetime. The Saint's War was fought in part by these private armies but dominantly with peasant soldiers. The Dozen, the twelve men and women who held Dana Eobhainn Bridge to ensure the destruction of St. Waidwen, were all peasants.

b) More-or-less yes, though there may be a few differences. The "lieutenant" rank in the Dyrwood uses the title "steadman" but is functionally the same. There are no subdivisions of steadman, sergeant, or corporal ranks.

c) Yes. Fortified communities are not uncommon, especially near the Dyrwood/Eir Glanfath border.

d) Professional armies serve their employers, who often are nobles (though sometimes simply wealthy individuals). Of course, all of those nobles pledge (and re-pledge) to serve the will of their elected duc. This does not always work in practice. When nobles levy armies in the Dyrwood, they only lawfully do so under a ducal order of conscription. The service that peasants pledge is to the duc and their country, not individual nobles. In practice, they always serve under regional nobles (typically erls and thayns). Erls and thayns hold hereditary positions. Ducs are elected by the seven erls.

3. Lions exist in this world, but are exotic in the Dyrwood. Staelgar are the dominant big cat in Eir Glanfath and the Dyrwood. They have a tiger-like build, lion-like mane and tail, "sabre" teeth, and a dark spotted coat.

 

[Roguey]

lol @ posters in this thread getting upset because there won't be an arbitrary amount of content (What kind of quality? Who knows and who cares) within the cities themselves.

let's see...i remember the djinns, the skinchanger, the warring families and the druid stuff
what else was there? that's 4 / 5 quests
so 8 / 10 quests doesn't really feel like a "lot" of content to me

Mazzy's sister if you have her in your party.

Ten quests can be a lot of content depending on how extensive they are. I'm pretty sure I spent hours in Trademeet and the grove as it is.

 

[Grunker]

lol @ posters in this thread getting upset because there won't be an arbitrary amount of content

lol @ posters who think quantity in an rpg doesn't matter

 

[Transfiguring Roar]

I don't mind the density of Athkatla (made the place seem very alive) and I don't think it was really a problem, on the other hand, the amount of quests forced onto the player through scripting was a pain. I remember heading direct to the docks from the De-Arnise keep once and being bombarded by two or three npcs that materialized out of nowhere as well as Yoshimo mentioning that the party should go do the thief stronghold quest... I think better distribution, and reduced amounts, of in-your-face scripted events would have made the density of Athkatla easier to manage.