Obsidian's Pillars of Eternity [BETA RELEASED, GO TO THE NEW THREAD]

[Roguey]

yeah, because you can't show footage of a lengthy fight without getting into quest details or conversations.
fighting wolfs and zombies to rescue a damsel from their bloody fangs ain't that spoiler laden to me. this level of national security makes me a little bit sick :/

They can't do that without getting a bunch of I DIDN'T BACK AN ICEWIND DALE CLONE

Additionally

The animation team has been wrapping up the last B priority items and will moving into full-time polish until the end of the project

They need to go back and polish those A priority melee animations before we see anything.

 

[Excidium]

Obsidian is hiding the goods

 

[Semper]

They can't do that without getting a bunch of I DIDN'T BACK AN ICEWIND DALE CLONE

they don't care about the opinion of the backers anymore. now it's all about media and the coverage to maximize sales after release. what i don't understand is the point that they won't show any videos. it doesn't really matter at this point if it ain't that polished. a simple "work in progress" should be sufficient. after the nda runs out people searching for additional info will only find the trailer from months ago which ain't that great either.

 

[nikolokolus]

They can't do that without getting a bunch of I DIDN'T BACK AN ICEWIND DALE CLONE

they don't care about the opinion of the backers anymore. now it's all about media and the coverage to maximize sales after release. what i don't understand is the point that they won't show any videos. it doesn't really matter at this point if it ain't that polished. a simple "work in progress" should be sufficient. after the nda runs out people searching for additional info will only find the trailer from months ago which ain't that great either.

Goddamned right it is ... and good for them too! They're treating their game like it's an honest to god professional product that they'd like to be as successful as possible. I'd be a lot more disappointed if they were going with the pretense that this game is somehow a vehicle for changing the system and telling the man to go fuck off (e.g. Brian Fargo/InXile).

 

[Infinitron]

Brandon Adler has read the Codex's Wasteland 2 thread (and other threads like it across the Internet) and he's fucking terrified. Doubly so because of Obsidian's buggy reputation. It's as simple as that.

(Whether his terror is actually justified is a matter for debate.)

 

[Arkeus]

they don't care about the opinion of the backers anymore.

Which is clearly why Eternity continues to give very regular updates about the game, and Josh is constantly answering questions, be they on SA or his whatsitname account, or even in the Obsidian forums.

The only other kickstarter project that's making so much effort is Divinity: Original Sin, and that's a very different (tone-wise) develloping studio.

 

[Semper]

Goddamned right it is ... and good for them too!

yeah, nobody said anything against that. it's just totally contradictory to have an official trailer on youtube, clearly full of alpha animation, and suddenly there won't be any new stuff before it ain't polished enough. if people are looking now (or after all the e3 articles popping up in about a few days) they will find pre-finished stuff, and if they decide to release new video coverage it would also be pre-finished stuff, in case of the e3 demo albeit way more polished. so what does it really matter?!

Arkeus: i meant that the backers already "bought" their product so obsidian doesn't have to convince them. every media coverage is tended directly at potential buyers.

 

[Roguey]

They can't do that without getting a bunch of I DIDN'T BACK AN ICEWIND DALE CLONE

they don't care about the opinion of the backers anymore. now it's all about media and the coverage to maximize sales after release. what i don't understand is the point that they won't show any videos. it doesn't really matter at this point if it ain't that polished. a simple "work in progress" should be sufficient. after the nda runs out people searching for additional info will only find the trailer from months ago which ain't that great either.

Nowhere in any pledge rewards tier is a promise of a pre-release video. That's a courtesy (much like regular backer updates) they've chosen not to extend. Double Fine released a test video to backers only, it was inevitably leaked, and a whole lot of stupidity followed.

With four-five months to release, a lack of polish is going to be a huge deal to a lot of people because most people don't know/understand/care about how game development schedules work, especially since pre-release fake AAA footage has spoiled them. And judging by NeoGAF's response to concept art with "Work in progress" plastered all over it, that kind of disclaimer is worthless.

And for a AAA example, remember the falling ogre from Todd's Skyrim presentation with no animation? That was improved on release, but that didn't stop a bunch of clowns from posting that gif over and over.

 

[Semper]

With four-five months to release, a lack of polish is going to be a huge deal to a lot of people because most people don't know/understand/care about how game development schedules work, especially since pre-release fake AAA footage has spoiled them.

this is a comprehensible argument if there wouldn't be an official trailer lacking exactly this addressed level of polish. if those retards can't into development schedules they also give a shit about that the trailer is already months old. all they see is questionable "gameplay".

 

[ZagorTeNej]

Brandon Adler has read the Codex's Wasteland 2 thread (and other threads like it across the Internet) and he's fucking terrified. Doubly so because of Obsidian's buggy reputation. It's as simple as that.

(Whether his terror is actually justified is a matter for debate.)

Yeah but this way they risk alienating part of backers who at this point want something more meaty than "Update 1000: Waves!", "Update 1001: A portrait!" , "Update 1002: A lore snippet" etc.

Now personally I only care about the end product (that trailer and talk about various aspects/mechanics of the game is more than enough for me) but with these kickstarter games playing on nostalgia, sticking it to the publishers and being funded directly by fans people just expect more transparency almost as an unwritten rule.

 

[Roguey]

this is a comprehensible argument if there wouldn't be an official trailer lacking exactly this addressed level of polish. if those retards can't into development schedules they also give a shit about that the trailer is already months old. all they see is questionable "gameplay".

That teaser barely showed anything. A presentation of actual gameplay would receive a lot more scrutiny.

Yeah but this way they risk alienating part of backers who at this point want something more meaty than "Update 1000: Waves!", "Update 1001: A portrait!" , "Update 1002: A lore snippet" etc.

And they'll be getting it in August/September when they release the backer beta, and a week or two before, when they release the gameplay video.

 

[Infinitron]

Roguey, enough with the Stockholm Syndrome. We all understand what Obsidian's motivations are, and I believe most of us can sympathize with them - but as gamers we should all want to see the game, and damn the consequences. People have every right to be disappointed about this.

 

[Roguey]

I want to see a final quality video and since we're about two months away from that, jumping the gun at this point would be stupid.

 

[Zorba the Hutt]

I think a lot of these issues are due to kickstarter being a relatively new process for games, so both sides are still working out what the expected behaviour is. In the past noone would have been surprised at the press getting first look at gameplay, now backers wonder why they are seemingly a secondary priority. Larian could have done whatever they wanted with Steam activation on dvd copies but now there are backer expectations of what "DRM-free" implies. Even Wasteland 2, with the accusations of 'overhyping' would not have been scrutinised to the same degree.

Obviously all of these games are under much more scrutiny than in the pre-kickstarter era when we'd get the occasional article on how a game was shaping up. But once all these studios have been through a complete kickstarter process from pitch to release in future both sides will have a more settled expectation based on 'how things were done last time'.

 

[ZagorTeNej]

And they'll be getting it in August/September when they release the backer beta, and a week or two before, when they release the gameplay video.

Which will be 2-3 months after the game journos (even those among them who have zero appreciation for this type of game being made in 2014 as Josh himself said) have already seen the game which is the whole point, some backers will undoubtebly feel shafted by that. Fan relation is important, especially when they're the ones that funded your game.

 

[Roguey]

Which will be 2-3 months after the game journos (even those among them who have zero appreciation for this type of game being made in 2014 as Josh himself said) have already seen the game which is the whole point, some backers will undoubtebly feel shafted by that. Fan relation is important, especially when they're the ones that funded your game.

So far complaints of this nature have been teacup tempests. More people being driven away by unpolished art would be a lot worse.

 

[Telengard]

They should pull a triple-A and produce a video that shows a cinematic that has little to do with the actual gameplay or the story cinematics, a few stills with a scrolling camera shot, and a bunch of exciting fontwork. Then call it a day. Making said video would pull resources that could actually have been used for other things - like developing the game - but it would make enough of the plebs happy to shut up the circlejerk of animosity.

 

[Abelian]

In the past noone would have been surprised at the press getting first look at gameplay, now backers wonder why they are seemingly a secondary priority.

Just because they financed it and want to see progress on their investment? How outrageous.

On a more serious note, I don't particularly care about previews/demos/early releases, but I know that there are plenty of other people who do and constant updates would put them much more at ease with regards to the game's progress.

 

[Abu Antar]

The last update was about the progress of the game and according to that, it is shaping up good.

 

[Kem0sabe]

I wonder how much of their budget is allocated to Q&A, but then again they can release a stable game that ends up being shit because of it's game systems. PoE for all it's beauty is firmly on my "wait and see" list.

 

[Infinitron]

they can release a stable game that ends up being shit because of it's game systems

Judging by the Codex's top 7 RPGs, that is highly unlikely

 

[Kem0sabe]

they can release a stable game that ends up being shit because of it's game systems

Judging by the Codex's top 7 RPGs, that is highly unlikely

Kotor 2, their inaugural game so to speak, launched in an unfinished state, and to call it a mess is somewhat of an understatement. Despite it's overall quality.

Next game after that, NWN2, launched in yet another horrible state, with a buggy, unoptimized engine, a ridiculously bad campaign and needed extensive patching to even work properly.

Next up, their 2 expansions for NWN2, they redeemed themselves with both being very different but very good D&D experiences.

Only to follow them up with Alpha Protocol, another messy release with less than stellar gameplay.

Despite what New Vegas achieved, its launch was also, rather publicly, a mess... with bugs everywhere and very severe memory leak problems that havent been fixed to this day. Mods managed to add a lot to the game and make the experience much smoother overall, as well as some very good DLC.

But after New vegas, everything went downhill, their Diablo Clone was a spectacular failure, and their South Park game can be accused of everything but being a deep and complex rpg.

So, their game releases are uneven at best. So far PoE is looking great, but looking great and playing great are two very different things, and i think that is why people are clamoring for an extended gameplay video.

 

[Infinitron]

they can release a stable game that ends up being shit because of it's game systems

Judging by the Codex's top 7 RPGs, that is highly unlikely

Kotor 2, their inaugural game so to speak, launched in an unfinished state, and to call it a mess is somewhat of an understatement. Despite it's overall quality.

Next game after that, NWN2, launched in yet another horrible state, with a buggy, unoptimized engine, a ridiculously bad campaign and needed extensive patching to even work properly.

Next up, their 2 expansions for NWN2, they redeemed themselves with both being very different but very good D&D experiences.

Only to follow them up with Alpha Protocol, another messy release with less than stellar gameplay.

Despite what New Vegas achieved, its launch was also, rather publicly, a mess... with bugs everywhere and very severe memory leak problems that havent been fixed to this day. Mods managed to add a lot to the game and make the experience much smoother overall, as well as some very good DLC.

But after New vegas, everything went downhill, their Diablo Clone was a spectacular failure, and their South Park game can be accused of everything but being a deep and complex rpg.

So, their game releases are uneven at best. So far PoE is looking great, but looking great and playing great are two very different things, and i think that is why people are clamoring for an extended gameplay video.

I thought we were talking about systems here.

"Man, this game's armor and damage systems suck! WORST RPG EVER!"
"I don't like this game's stat/skill relationship algorithm. Shit RPG, 4/10."

^^Things no Codexer has said, ever.

 

[Kem0sabe]

they can release a stable game that ends up being shit because of it's game systems

Judging by the Codex's top 7 RPGs, that is highly unlikely

Kotor 2, their inaugural game so to speak, launched in an unfinished state, and to call it a mess is somewhat of an understatement. Despite it's overall quality.

Next game after that, NWN2, launched in yet another horrible state, with a buggy, unoptimized engine, a ridiculously bad campaign and needed extensive patching to even work properly.

Next up, their 2 expansions for NWN2, they redeemed themselves with both being very different but very good D&D experiences.

Only to follow them up with Alpha Protocol, another messy release with less than stellar gameplay.

Despite what New Vegas achieved, its launch was also, rather publicly, a mess... with bugs everywhere and very severe memory leak problems that havent been fixed to this day. Mods managed to add a lot to the game and make the experience much smoother overall, as well as some very good DLC.

But after New vegas, everything went downhill, their Diablo Clone was a spectacular failure, and their South Park game can be accused of everything but being a deep and complex rpg.

So, their game releases are uneven at best. So far PoE is looking great, but looking great and playing great are two very different things, and i think that is why people are clamoring for an extended gameplay video.

I thought we were talking about systems here.

"Man, this game's armor and damage systems suck! WORST RPG EVER!"
"I don't like the stat/skill relationship algorithm here. Shit RPG, 4/10."

^^Things no Codexer has ever said, ever.

Out of their release catalog, not sure any of their game system's can qualify as deep or complex. Kotor was a console rpg with simplified combat and character progression, people remember it for its deep story, NWN2's implementation of the D&D ruleset wasn't what i would call it's bigger virtue, people remember it mainly for MotB's story and characters, even tho ZoE was a huge leap in game systems compared to the previous NWN2 campaigns. Alpha protocol was yet another simplified console rpg.

Speaking in terms of game system's, their best effort might have been ZoE and not New Vegas, the former had huge balance problems, the combat was mediocre, there was a lot of skill bloat and the perk system, albeit fun, was more problematic than advantageous again in terms of balance.

I think PoE is their first game where they have the freedom of being unrestrained in terms of game systems, how that will work out is yet to be seen.

 

[Infinitron]

Out of their release catalog, not sure any of their game system's can qualify as deep or complex. Kotor was a console rpg with simplified combat and character progression, people remember it for its deep story, NWN2's implementation of the D&D ruleset wasn't what i would call it's bigger virtue, people remember it mainly for MotB's story and characters, even tho ZoE was a huge leap in game systems compared to the previous NWN2 campaigns. Alpha protocol was yet another simplified console rpg.

And what I'm saying is, how much criticism did those games receive because of that? Answer: Not much.

Because content is king(tm) and no True Codexer(tm) has ever decreed a game "shit" because of its systems.

(exceptions granted to Roguey, Excidium, and perhaps a few others)

Speaking in terms of game system's, their best effort might have been ZoE and not New Vegas

Summoning Roguey for extra rage