Obsidian's Pillars of Eternity [BETA RELEASED, GO TO THE NEW THREAD]

[Cynic]

It's not just this. It's everything. It's the fucking retarded uninspired directionless KS videos. Its the concept art which looks worse than a 9th grader's math notebook. It's the "What the fuck is this, really?" It seriously all just sounds shit and all I've been going on is benefit of the doubt and they just shat on that. Fuck these guys, seriously. If the game ends up being decent, good or even brilliant I'll come out and admit I was wrong but I refuse to support or defend this stumbling bumblefuck any longer.

If the game turns out decent, I will buy it and be happy. But that's not the point. The KS is meant to get you to buy the game now, before it's actually been made. It's a massive ask and it's amazing to me that they have basically been able to pull in over 2 million dollars based on pretty much nothing but name dropping.

I think the crowd sourced funding model is excellent for games, HOWEVER, fuck man, you have to put down something of substance on your end of the table before I fork over money. Right now, Obsidian has not done this. They've talked out of their ass about concepts and ideas and a bland fantasy world. That's it. Oh but it will have MEENINGFULL C&C GUIZE! PROMIZ!

Show me some in game screens. Show me a character sheet. Show me the bare bones idea behind SOME kind of a plot. But no, nothing.

Tim Cain is the ONLY guy who has been talking sense in this whole thing. All the other stuff has just been garbage. I was already raging at RTwP, but based on his shit alone I was ready to back. But after Josh Casual's statements which read like a Player's Handbook for Dumbed Down Fucktards, and now this cool down shit, I am not putting ANY cash down until they actually show something of worth. I'm quite happy to just wait till this gets released and see if it's any good then. When I feel that way, it means they have run a shit kickstarter campaign because the whole point of it is to get people hyped BEFORE you release, not make them think "hmmm I'm gonna wait bro".

 

[wormix]

Merging everything together because it's hard to keep track of separate threads of discussion, and then locking it cause it's too hard to keep track of whats going on, seems a bit silly to me, but whatever.

 

[CrustyBot]

Fearg in the comments section:

@David Holmin What we are moving forward with right now is a system that does not require a pure round system. In the IE games, each person was running their own six second round and spells were based on whether they were memorzied. How we look at it, rather than going with a memorization system for spells, in particular, we can use a cool down system. It's a similar balancing system without requireing the whole resting for spells. As for ablities being on that timer, D&D also had certain abilities that could only be used a certain number of times per day - again we want to mimic that with a cool down system.

ROGUEY'S RIGHT AGAIN!

Suck it doubters. I'm intimately familiar with the mind of Josh Sawyer. Additionally:

@Tristan The drops system will be semi-random. What I mean by that is there will be specific loot drop lists for things and that loot with be more made loot and not randomly created items. The loot dropped is then picked from the list. Using loot lists, lets us balance the loot that is dropping in specific parts of the game and with specific encounters without having to bring up every single monster and change their specific loot. Although we can still do that for unique things.

Nice low budget Dragon Age you have going there.

Roguey confirmed as Josh Sawyer's gf.

Or Josh Sawyer alt.

 

[Murk]

I think they were getting afraid of shit getting too real, basically, especially after cool-down bomb was dropped.

Very lame, but just makes me appreciate a certain other fora even more.

Also, what the fuck is up with that censorship crap? The press-releases all talk about exploring mature themes and nipple breast plates but you can't say "shit" on the goddamn forum? Eh, whatever.

 

[Infinitron]

I can't post right now. One of you guys had better start a suitable new thread (filled with rage) before one of the Biodrones does. You can copy paste my big reveal post in the locked thread.

Edit: Fuck, too late

 

[Infinitron]

Roguey confirmed as Roguey.

 

[Cynic]

I want to hear Tim Cain defend cool downs now. Honestly I do. He pulled a rabbit out of the hat with "skills designed for use with RTwP will be better" but honestly, I can't see how he would rate cool downs. Sigh. Fucking decline.

 

[Jasede]

I can't post right now. One of you guys had better start a suitable new thread (filled with rage) before one of the Biodrones does. You can copy paste my big reveal post in the locked thread.

Edit: Fuck, too late

I can't make a thread or post about this. I'd get banned. There are no words.

 

[sea]

Cooldowns can work in a RTwP situation decently depending on how they're implemented. Since you have time as one of your core resources to manage, working in cooldowns makes sense because you can have a mage be temporarily exhausted by casting certain spells. So long as they aren't per-spell cooldowns and there is some other limiting factor (like mana) it could still work. I think it's the wrong choice given the alternatives but it's not the end of the world for the combat system - what matters are the interactions of different mechanics and not just whether it has X or Y feature.

As for uh, that guy, well... takes an idiot to know an idiot, or something.

 

[crojipjip]

Think of it this way men: the new kickstarter rewards include sport drink. to accommodate cooldown. to cool off. to sit down. to be benched. to sit and watch the game go on without you. team-play synergy.

 

[Jasede]

pledge now for sport drink

 

[fizzelopeguss]

You guys just bought a lower budget NwN 2. Which some Gaellic fanboy spooged all over.

 

[Tigranes]

There's a new thread now, which is fine. We don't want 5 different threads on it, but then we actually have a weird legacy problem where threads over a certain length start getting disappearing posts, etc. I don't know if recent upgrades fixed that, better take a look.

In any case, now we have a clean thread to love/hate cooldowns/vancians.

I think they were getting afraid of shit getting too real, basically, especially after cool-down bomb was dropped.

Absolutely. I'm terrified that the cooldown situation will lead to a general uprising, a workers' revolution, and the destruction of all the fine things in life that I love, including the harem of lovely no-longer-virgin ladies Obsidian has supplied me with. It's absolutely serious business and we're all terrified of the shit that is apparently getting real.

 

[Murk]

Just keep it real Tigranes, you have the name of a great king (or something), keep it real.

 

[Grimlorn]

If they're putting in cooldowns, they're probably putting in romances too.

Still have a couple good games coming up. Wasteland 2, Chaos Chronicles, Shadowrun might be good.

 

[Cynic]

At this point, if I HAD backed the project, I'd be withdrawing my funding until more details emerge. There's time for them to get their act together on it, KS provides you the power to vote with your wallet rather than just bitching on forums. Josh Sawyer has proven true to his roots and is going after as much jew gold as he can.

Members of the prestigious Codex, withdraw your pledges. Show them that this shit will not fly. They have 2 weeks to get the money back with solid updates including actual substance. Right now they are just leading everyone along and then pulling dick moves as they go. Fuck that shit.

 

[Shadenuat]

Whatever. Every one of you will buy PE, if not to enjoy it if it's NWN popamole with vancian replaced by cooldowns, but to see and feel the power of decline, and smash Obsidian forums and tweets in shear anger crying "oh how thy mighty have fallen". And those who won't, *will* pirate it, because there is MCA writing in it, and you love MCA, and you will fart blood of how terrible the combat and cooldowns would be, but still eat it, because that's how it is - it's Obsidian and shit, you suffered through Sith Lords crashing every two seconds, you will suffer through PE too, crying, but still playing. Because it's MCA man, that "Step away from her! Step away! She has brought truth and you condemn it. The arrogance! You will not harm her, you will not harm her ever again.".. just
FUCKING. GENIOUS

 

[Murk]

I really hope they throw down some real concrete info in the coming two or so weeks so the people who pledged big bucks know just what exactly they're supporting.

 

[tuluse]

At this point, if I HAD backed the project, I'd be withdrawing my funding until more details emerge. There's time for them to get their act together on it, KS provides you the power to vote with your wallet rather than just bitching on forums. Josh Sawyer has proven true to his roots and is going after as much jew gold as he can.

Members of the prestigious Codex, withdraw your pledges. Show them that this shit will not fly. They have 2 weeks to get the money back with solid updates including actual substance. Right now they are just leading everyone along and then pulling dick moves as they go. Fuck that shit.

I can't not buy MCA writing.

I'm *bound* to him.

 

[Cynic]

At this point, if I HAD backed the project, I'd be withdrawing my funding until more details emerge. There's time for them to get their act together on it, KS provides you the power to vote with your wallet rather than just bitching on forums. Josh Sawyer has proven true to his roots and is going after as much jew gold as he can.

Members of the prestigious Codex, withdraw your pledges. Show them that this shit will not fly. They have 2 weeks to get the money back with solid updates including actual substance. Right now they are just leading everyone along and then pulling dick moves as they go. Fuck that shit.

I can't not buy MCA writing.

I'm *bound* to him.

What I am saying is if you are unhappy with the current state of the KS campaign, withdraw the pledge. You can always put the money in later or, you know, wait till the game is actually released to see if the actual game that carries this writing is worth buying. Right now I see no reason to support their KS campaign, as they have put absolutely NOTHING of substance down on the table other than some banal shit boring art and a handful of SENTENCES together with some very shitty videos.

 

[jewboy]

Fearg in the comments section:

@David Holmin What we are moving forward with right now is a system that does not require a pure round system. In the IE games, each person was running their own six second round and spells were based on whether they were memorzied. How we look at it, rather than going with a memorization system for spells, in particular, we can use a cool down system. It's a similar balancing system without requireing the whole resting for spells. As for ablities being on that timer, D&D also had certain abilities that could only be used a certain number of times per day - again we want to mimic that with a cool down system.

ROGUEY'S RIGHT AGAIN!

Suck it doubters. I'm intimately familiar with the mind of Josh Sawyer. Additionally:

@Tristan The drops system will be semi-random. What I mean by that is there will be specific loot drop lists for things and that loot with be more made loot and not randomly created items. The loot dropped is then picked from the list. Using loot lists, lets us balance the loot that is dropping in specific parts of the game and with specific encounters without having to bring up every single monster and change their specific loot. Although we can still do that for unique things.

Nice low budget Dragon Age you have going there.

I'm almost starting to like you, roguey. Maybe this is going to be like a prequel to Dragon Age. Am I going to have to force myself to slog through endless (actually 15 minutes is about all I can take) trash clone-mob combat to get a flavor for what this game is going to be like? So a nostalgic remake of a PS:T/BG2 hybrid that plays like a low budget Dragon age? Cognitive dissonance alert! DOES NOT COMPUTE. You get all of the high action combat without the shiny graphics. Way to miss the point, Obsidian. I'm starting to actually lose interest in Sawyer completely. He seems utterly enamored with Dragon Age / Wow / Skyrim combat and wants to insert as much of that modern combat goodness into their kickstarter games. I'm guessing that Obsidian's theory is that the Codexian faction's only problem with modern games is that their graphics are too good.

 

[made]

Hehehe.

Dragon Age with guns.

 

[Captain Shrek]

Cooldowns can work in a RTwP situation decently depending on how they're implemented. Since you have time as one of your core resources to manage, working in cooldowns makes sense because you can have a mage be temporarily exhausted by casting certain spells. So long as they aren't per-spell cooldowns and there is some other limiting factor (like mana) it could still work. I think it's the wrong choice given the alternatives but it's not the end of the world for the combat system - what matters are the interactions of different mechanics and not just whether it has X or Y feature.

As for uh, that guy, well... takes an idiot to know an idiot, or something.

You are confusing mechanics with lore.

 

[RK47]

Fanboys gonna fanboys.
Cynics gonna be cynical.

 

[Captain Shrek]

Fanboys gonna fanboys.
Cynics gonna be cynical.

Cynics will be always proven right in the end.

 

[Alex]

Wow, suddenly this thread brought me back to the Van Buren days in the old Interplay board. I think part of the problem may be that Mr. Sawyer has a certain approach to RPGs that is different from the one, and I assume at least some of you, like best. Like the thing about 2e's spell system is that is is never going to be really balanced. the thing is made so people can find tweaks and strategies that will make what would be a hard fight completely trivial.This isn't bad, as long as it doesn't make all fights completely trivial, as long as the player needs to keep reaching and finding some new stuff.

But I feel he (I don't know yet about the other designers) dislikes this. I mean, it is too easy to mess up. It is pretty likely there will be exploits left open when you are done. And different people are likely to get really different experiences from the game. To me, this makes the game awesome, but most people will only get half of their first experience and leave it behind. So it is not surprising they would want to keep a tight leash on things. Keeping spell suits rather than letting the player choose each spell for himself could be an example of that. Now, maybe I am way off mark here. Maybe I am reading this all wrong, but maybe understanding where we diverge in philosophy will help the conversation in the Obsidian boards.