Obsidian's Pillars of Eternity [BETA RELEASED, GO TO THE NEW THREAD]

[Captain Shrek]

To be honest I am bit relieved and a bit disappointed. So I am about to commit some sacrilege and some Blasphemy. When I joined this place I always thought that Cain and Sawyer were really the creative kind, that took dangerous and novel steps to make games. I thought that the only reason they could not make something as great as Fallout again (Cain) because they were not having the resources to do so. Now that they have the money they keep regurgitating the same DnD crap all over.

The setting, the classes are so generic that I can't see why I am buying this game if not for MCA's writing. I am now very cautious about the mechanics too. It seems that Sawyer was potentially considering crippling the challenge in the game for the casual ADHD audience so that they would attract the audience of COD. Now where have I heard that before?

I am relieved too.

Since these guys have fallen from their high stations in my regard I dare not trust them doing something innovative. They probably neither have the guts or the talent to see it through. I am happy that I will get another IE like game (hopefully). At least I know that Obsidian can reproduce stuff quite well and MCA is always there to rescue it.

The intention of the project is a Baldur's Gate style game, not the successor to Torment. This basically places it well in the centre of more or less standard fantasy.

Moreover, a more original setting would never gather 2 million on Kickstarter. Not many people enjoy pushing the envelope, least of all RPG players. This Kickstarter is just as shackled and limited as development with publishers, except the role of the suits is now filled by the needs of the common RPG player, which must be catered to. Actually, perhaps developing with a publisher would mean more freedom than Obsidian has now, as their every move - even every sketchy idea - is scrutinized by thousands of entitled fans. The point is not that with Kickstarter they have more freedom, but that it is the only way to make such a game at all nowadays.

I don't think the initial hype train was due to the fact that there were elves and Dwarves. In fact they made the goal on day one when this was not even announced. The real reason for getting this money was the inspiration they quoted (IE games) and the crew on board (Obsidian and Co.).

 

[Darth Roxor]

Atheist priests did exist in Romania in commie times. They were called "Activiști de partid" (party activists). They would travel from village to village and preach to the peasents the glorious achievements of socialism and how if they embraced this new idea their lives would improve.

So yes, the concept of atheist priest could work if done right.

Otherwise known as Propagandalf

 

[Grunker]

Propagandalf

 

[suejak]

By what definition of "priest" is an advocate of socialism a priest?

 

[Captain Shrek]

By what definition of "priest" is an advocate of socialism a priest?

Believing in something mystical called socialism and sometimes Stalin or Mao.

 

[catfood]

By what definition of "priest" is an advocate of socialism a priest?

Think of them as a priest/preacher multiclass. Priest because they were members of an organized structure (commie party in this case) and preachers because they would go around and, well... preach (just imagine that scene from Life of Brian and you'll understand what I'm talking about).

 

[asper]

Many of the modern christian clergy don't really believe any tenets of their faith, but continue their function because of being unqualified for anything else. Didn't you think some of these bishops are just LARPing? An atheist priest is a very realistic concept, as 'priest' is a description of a profession and not necessarily of beliefs.

There are many ways in which this can work, as pointed out by other posters.

 

[Grunker]

By what definition of "priest" is an advocate of socialism a priest?

Believing in something mystical called socialism and sometimes Stalin or Mao.

OH SNAP

 

[Captain Shrek]

Many of the modern christian clergy don't really believe any tenets of their faith, but continue their function because of being unqualified for anything else. Didn't you think some of these bishops are just LARPing? An atheist priest is a very realistic concept, as 'priest' is a description of a profession and not necessarily of beliefs.

There are many ways in which this can work, as pointed out by other posters.

That can be said of any profession. A plumber may be a practicing plumber but may suck at it, right? Look at economists, teachers and other similar mental professions. The exact same scenario holds.

 

[asper]

Huh, what? Suejak's claim was that being a priest implies believing in your faith, and therefore that a faithless priest is nonsensical. This is what I was countering. I don't know what your point is with the comparison to other professions. A bad plumber is still a plumber, and a faithless priest is still a priest. A plumber that pretends to plumb but does nothing is... ah fuck it

 

[FeelTheRads]

I don't know what your point is with the comparison to other professions.

Religious butthurt, that's what.

 

[Black]

AT LEAST YOU GOT APPROPRIATE TITLE, SHREK

 

[Spectacle]

There is certainly no inherent requirement that you believe in the tenets of a religion to be able to perform the ceremonial duties of a priest. It can be a job like any other.
Here is a case of a Danish priest who managed to keep his job despite openly denying the existence of God or heaven.

 

[Infinitron]

There is certainly no inherent requirement that you believe in the tenets of a religion to be able to perform the ceremonial duties of a priest. It can be a job like any other.
Here is a case of a Danish priest who managed to keep his job despite openly denying the existence of God or heaven.

Do the ceremonial duties of a priest include casting Flamestrike spells?

 

[Black]

Nope, just Holy Word.

 

[ghostdog]

Do the ceremonial duties of a priest include casting Flamestrike spells?

No, but he can cast the "summon sexually abused children drones" spell.

 

[wormix]

From the kickstarter update on priests

[...] but their abilities stem solely from within

Atheists could certainly exist within the setting, as could atheist priests. But would providing them as a player option really add anything?

Sounds like something to be tackled via NPCs to flesh out the setting, than an option so the player doesn't have to play a character believing in gods.

 

[Black]

Do the ceremonial duties of a priest include casting Flamestrike spells?

No, but he can cast the "summon sexually abused children drones" spell.

But that's not politically correct!

But would providing them as a player option really add anything?

I'd say having Gaan and his beliefs (no matter how stupid they are in FR) in MoTB was good for the game.

 

[Infinitron]

http://forums.somethingawful.com/sh...rid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=167#post408171112

It's very unlikely that priests will be strongly dominant healers in PE.

http://forums.somethingawful.com/sh...d=17931&perpage=40&pagenumber=4#post408165366

Wizards have an enormous potential list of spells to choose from, but they have to find or research a lot of them. Most of their spells also have to be bound in physical grimoires that they use for casting.

Priests don't have to research or find prayers, but their overall access is limited by their faith, much like priestly spell spheres in D&D. Also, priests (in general) are a little less casting oriented, more "get your hands dirty" than wizards.

 

[Infinitron]

 

[Jarpie]

If they can replicate the surge of the last days pledges PE should get at least as much as DFA.

 

[Roguey]

Kind of worried that they didn't mention cool-downs. Of course, this was probably planned in advance, but considering the bombshell that was, I would have hoped they would have gone into detail. Perhaps they're not quite done making the system yet?

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/60875-merged-cooldown-thread/page__st__120#entry1219480 Nothing more needs to be said.

 

[Cynic]

So, what do you guys think the chances of any kind of screens being released before the end of the KS are? I still haven't backed due to my rage at all that has been said so far, but I'm 50/50 at this point. Some graphicswhoring will probably push me over the edge...

 

[Infinitron]

So, what do you guys think the chances of any kind of screens being released before the end of the KS are? I still haven't backed due to my rage at all that has been said so far, but I'm 50/50 at this point. Some graphicswhoring will probably push me over the edge...

Mock ups perhaps. Zero chance of actual screenshots.

 

[Lord Andre]

Divine spellcaster class with no chosen diety - not really worth a stretchgoal.

Also, I see some people(fanboys) still believe Sawyer could invent a never-before-seen cooldown mechanic. Let me brake it down for you:
A cooldown means that after you use an ability you have to wait x seconds/minutes/hours before you can use it again. The only variable in this equation is x. That's the only thing you can change. So, depending on x you may have:
- spamfest (x=seconds)
- wait(go make coffee) then spamfest (x=minutes)
- press "wait" button instead of "rest" button after every encounter then spamfest (x=hours)
That's it. You could think about it for an year but there is nothing more to be done with a cooldown.

On the other hand Sawyer might be trying to emulate D&D 4ed. D&D 4e does not use cooldowns because they are impossible to use in P&P. So how does D&D 4ed work ? I'll explain:
Combat abilities can be at-will, x/per encounter, or x/per day.
Stuff like piercing strike or magic missile - at-will; burning hands or bait-and-switch x/per encounter; acid arrow, sleep, clever riposte, meteor swarm x/per day.
Utility, non-combat stuff are called rituals and are basically at-will as long as you are not fighting.
As you can see, this is not cooldowns. To get daily powers back you need to rest. Daily powers are the backbone of your spellcaster, meaning that if implemented in a computer rpg, rest abuse would still be an issue.

Conclusion: A cooldown mechanic is just that - a cooldown mechanic. Don't tell me to wait and see what the devs come up with, it's not rocket science. I can think about it for 2 minutes and see all the possible permutations. There is no hidden grail in cooldowns it's just consoletard shit.

P.S.: D&D 4ed is to D&D 3,5ed what Dragon Age is to BG2...but that's just my opinion.