Obsidian's Pillars of Eternity [BETA RELEASED, GO TO THE NEW THREAD]

[Lord Andre]

Repeating myself again and again...Regeneration of ALL abilities between encounters => no attrition => over 9000 trash mobs be coming our way.

If you think all your spells are going to regenerate in-between every fight you are quite literally a moron. Feel free to quote this back at me if I'm wrong, because I'm pretty confident I'm not.

Health regen or health restored after combat confirmed. Game is going to suck hard.

False, Sawyer's already mentioned that there's a heal spell "but not the way you think" meaning it isn't simply giving you HP, and when Captain Possibly Retarded was trolling him about CoD he said health regeneration was too lenient for the target audience.

Fine, you got me. I am literally a moron. I've got papers and everything. Perhaps if I sucked Sawyer's cock long enough, it might help raise my intelligence. What do you think ? Did it work for you ? 'Cause you're brilliant. I want to be just like you.

 

[DwarvenFood]

I've already stated a creative way to include the Vancian system or a version of it and remove rest spamming from the game. I think the post over on the boards there has about 30 like or something. Hopefully they consider it.

What thread/post, bro ? Let us help out.

 

[Admiral jimbob]

Not sure where they posted it originally, but I just saw on Sawyer's Formspring that you can create a 6-man custom party. Sold.

 

[Roguey]

Fine, you got me. I am literally a moron. I've got papers and everything. Perhaps if I sucked Sawyer's cock long enough, it might help raise my intelligence. What do you think ? Did it work for you ? 'Cause you're brilliant. I want to be just like you.

Always lovely when people are unjustifiably sarcastic. http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/60875-merged-cooldown-thread/page__st__520#entry1220495

Locking out access to an entire level of spells once you have exhausted the castings you have available to you at a given level (as a 3E sorcerer would) means that you have to use spells from your other spell levels. This creates a tactical challenge during combat, especially for spells at levels where you do not have many castings available (i.e. typically your highest). Allowing them to regenerate literally instantly means that there is not a tactical consideration; you should just use the most powerful spell for the situation over and over again for the duration of combat.
...
The feeling of challenge is a balance between enjoyment and frustration. It is not the same for every player, but it is almost always at some midpoint between those two emotions. My goal is to use a variety of mechanics to find balance points that appeal to this specific audience, varied as it is. I think that instant health regeneration errs too much on the side of ease for this audience.

If you read that and come away from it thinking "YEP ALL YOUR SPELLS ARE GOING TO REGENERATE AFTER EVERY FIGHT AND IT'S GOING TO BE BALANCED FOR THAT" then you have reading comprehension problems. This is like that tunnel vision I keep talking about.

 

[Cynic]

I've already stated a creative way to include the Vancian system or a version of it and remove rest spamming from the game. I think the post over on the boards there has about 30 like or something. Hopefully they consider it.

What thread/post, bro ? Let us help out.

Here you go bro http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/60875-merged-cooldown-thread/page__st__580#entry1220626

more around 20 likes than 30

 

[Infinitron]

Captain Shrek and Lord Andre.

What is it with these butthurt "titled aristocrats"?

 

[evdk]

Not sure where they posted it originally, but I just saw on Sawyer's Formspring that you can create a 6-man custom party. Sold.

Not from the get go though, eventually. When you reach the Hall of Heroes (or whatever it's called) you can recruit new adventurers that you make yourself. It's in the latest update.

 

[Captain Shrek]

Captain Shrek and Lord Andre.

What is it with these butthurt "titled aristocrats"?

A) Captain is NOT an aristocratic title. But I am a poor aristocrat by birth none the less.
B) This i not butt-hurt. This is reasoned disagreement. To see butt-hurt look at Jassun's replies on that forum to Biodrones.

 

[Lord Andre]

Fine, you got me. I am literally a moron. I've got papers and everything. Perhaps if I sucked Sawyer's cock long enough, it might help raise my intelligence. What do you think ? Did it work for you ? 'Cause you're brilliant. I want to be just like you.

Always lovely when people are unjustifiably sarcastic. http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/60875-merged-cooldown-thread/page__st__520#entry1220495

Locking out access to an entire level of spells once you have exhausted the castings you have available to you at a given level (as a 3E sorcerer would) means that you have to use spells from your other spell levels. This creates a tactical challenge during combat, especially for spells at levels where you do not have many castings available (i.e. typically your highest). Allowing them to regenerate literally instantly means that there is not a tactical consideration; you should just use the most powerful spell for the situation over and over again for the duration of combat.
...
The feeling of challenge is a balance between enjoyment and frustration. It is not the same for every player, but it is almost always at some midpoint between those two emotions. My goal is to use a variety of mechanics to find balance points that appeal to this specific audience, varied as it is. I think that instant health regeneration errs too much on the side of ease for this audience.

If you read that and come away from it thinking "YEP ALL YOUR SPELLS ARE GOING TO REGENERATE AFTER EVERY FIGHT AND IT'S GOING TO BE BALANCED FOR THAT" then you have reading comprehension problems. This is like that tunnel vision I keep talking about.

That means you can't machinegun fireball during an encounter. It says nothing about what happens between encounters.
Also it's a response to Captain Shrek's troll. If you read it in context, it just means there will be no 0 sec. cooldown. Anything above 0 sec. is on the table. In another post he said something about no 30 sec. cooldowns either. So indeed, no machinegun fireball is confirmed. Nothing is confirmed about what happens between encounters.

 

[evdk]

I think Obsidian should hint at confirming romances, this thread is getting stale.

 

[CrustyBot]

Captain Shrek and Lord Andre.

What is it with these butthurt "titled aristocrats"?

 

[Roguey]

That means you can't machinegun fireball during an encounter. It says nothing about what happens between encounters.
Also it's a response to Captain Shrek's troll. If you read it in context, it just means there will be no 0 sec. cooldown. Anything above 0 sec. is on the table. In another post he said something about no 30 sec. cooldowns either. So indeed, no machinegun fireball is confirmed. Nothing is confirmed about what happens between encounters.

Looks like you're the one ignoring context. He was replying to:

The solution you suggest is to instead allow for a cool down time which will replenish ALL your spell outside of combat, so that you can carry on to the next battle.

The obvious question should be: why even a cool down? Make the regeneration instantaneous!

They're obviously talking about all the spells regenerating outside of combat. Obviously the same problem happens if all your spells are available to you at the start of every combat (start out with the highest level spell, work your way down). You really are thick, aren't ya?

Edit: Furthermore
http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/60875-merged-cooldown-thread/page__st__520#entry1220528

All I am asking is why this artificial Cooldown time? Why not instantaneous regeneration POST combat?

The amount of time that a spell level lockout should last isn't something for which I have a solid answer. It could work in a manner similar to 4E where the end of an "encounter" resets the lockout on the majority of abilities, but "combat" states in engines is something that, in my experience, is often triggered on/off in weird ways. If a lockout lasts for something like 30 seconds or 45 seconds, that lockout will likely last longer than the remainder of the combat, but not so long that the player would have a compelling incentive to "spam stand", which I agree is bad. Whether the answer is a timed lockout or a combat state-released lockout, I'm not sure.

Stop being stupid, thanks.

 

[Lord Andre]

Whatever Roguey, this issue has been done to death. I just hope you're right and the next update brings us some good news.

 

[Kalin]

Not sure if it has been brought up already, but I really hope experience points are split between party members. Split exp was instrumental for the great versatility in terms of party size in games such as Planescape: Torment, Baldur's Gate and Icewind Dale. Smaller parties could be just as viable as full parties, since characters would level up faster and therefore still be able to tackle most encounters. Solo play also worked quite well, provided that you knew what you were doing. I have probably finished Torment and Baldur's Gate more times solo than with full parties. However, in shitty games such as Neverwinter Nights 2, NPCs were forced upon the player and levelled up equally, even while being out of the party. As a result, solo play was discouraged and you had to put up with crap like fake-Gimli and fake-Annah.

And on a related note:

A BRO SHGOULD BE ABLE TO KILL OR TALK TO ANY MOTHERFUCKER

Always this! In addition to having plenty of dialogue to choose from, the player should always be able to attack characters at will, including innocents, party members and allies. And no "knocked out" nonsense, please. The dead should stay dead unless super-costly resurrection is possible, and ideally, it should not be possible to resurrect a corpse that is too badly damaged. The freedom to choose whom to kill is a huge part of what makes games such as Baldur's Gate, Fallout, Geneforge and Arcanum interesting and fun to play.

 

[DalekFlay]

Considering Sawyer pushed for all NPCs in the game to be able to be killed in New Vegas, and got his way except for Yes Man, I would guess he will have that in mind for PE.

 

[Infinitron]

Not sure if it has been brought up already, but I really hope experience points are split between party members. Split exp was instrumental for the great versatility in terms of party size in games such as Planescape: Torment, Baldur's Gate and Icewind Dale. Smaller parties could be just as viable as full parties, since characters would level up faster and therefore still be able to tackle most encounters. Solo play also worked quite well, provided that you knew what you were doing. I have probably finished Torment and Baldur's Gate more times solo than with full parties. However, in shitty games such as Neverwinter Nights 2, NPCs were forced upon the player and levelled up equally, even while being out of the party. As a result, solo play was discouraged and you had to put up with crap like fake-Gimli and fake-Annah.

And on a related note:

A BRO SHGOULD BE ABLE TO KILL OR TALK TO ANY MOTHERFUCKER

Always this! In addition to having plenty of dialogue to choose from, the player should always be able to attack characters at will, including innocents, party members and allies. And no "knocked out" nonsense, please. The dead should stay dead unless super-costly resurrection is possible, and ideally, it should not be possible to resurrect a corpse that is too badly damaged. The freedom to choose whom to kill is a huge part of what makes games such as Baldur's Gate, Fallout, Geneforge and Arcanum interesting and fun to play.

There have been posts about both of these issues on the Obsidian forums.

 

[x4nti]

I think they can go 4E knock off and get a decent system, especially if they use the healing surge mechanic. For those who don't know: healing surges are finite resource that is calculated from the class and the constitution stat. All real healing of a character is done by using the healing surges that the character has. A character can only use one healing surge per encounter on his own; if he needs more than that, someone with the appropriate skill (the leader) will have to unlock a healing surge of the player. Even drinking potions make you spend surges. Between encounters you can spend as many as you like. It's the main attrition mechanic in 4E (the other one being spending of daily abilities).

 

[Infinitron]

RPS MCA Interview: New Companion Revealed http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2012/10/05/obsidian-on-project-eternity-old-school-innovation/

RPS: Black Isle’s RPGs included all sorts of amazing, totally optional details. For instance, I always got a kick out of Fallout 2′s idiot dialogue options and how much thought went into that system. Will Project Eternity have any surprises along those lines?

Avellone: Yes, we want to examine the dialogue mechanics, and one thing we’re going to do is low-intelligence options – either based on Intelligence or a trait – and have the sequences play out differently according to the player’s intellect. As a narrative designer, I enjoy writing interactions like that, and I had a blast with the stupid options in F2 in Vault City and New Reno.

RPS: That was pretty innovative for its time, come to think of it. Meanwhile, Kickstarter seems to be ruled by nostalgia these days, and I feel like Obsidian’s a perfect example of why it could be a problem. On one hand, you’re making a very intriguing game. On the other, Obsidian’s created some truly innovative and forward-thinking features in games like Alpha Protocol. Does this trend put progress on hold? Is it dangerous for everyone to be indulging in nostalgia like this?

Avellone: Innovative concepts don’t need to be tied to modern blockbusters or to nostalgia. While RPGs have lost some mechanics over the years in their transition phases from PC to console, there’s plenty of innovative elements you can do in old school nostalgia games – for example, low intelligence options were pioneered in Fallout, and that didn’t require any special tech whatsoever. It just required the Fallout team to think it up and put it into practice.
Fallout really opened my design eyes to the possibilities of a mechanics-driven dialogue system that reacted to your attributes, skills, gear, and more. We’d like to continue that tradition, and it’s easier to do when everything’s not voice-acted and super expensive for every line you have to fight for.

RPS: Obsidian’s had its fair share of ups and downs with publishers – for instance, the Metacritic controversy with Fallout and Alpha Protocol not living up to Sega’s sales standards. Did those things, at least in part, prompt your decision to go to Kickstarter?

Avellone: We just want to make an isometric game without having to “sell” it to anyone other than the players. If the players want to support it – and they do – that’s enough for me.

PS: You’ve taken a very ardent stance on being PC-only. Meanwhile, many developers claim that designing for consoles doesn’t compromise their ability to create a truly great PC game. Why do you think otherwise? Is it mainly a matter of the genre you’re working with?

Avellone: It’s difficult to control a party tactically with most console controllers nowadays. And when you have 5+ party members in addition to 20+ potential enemies running around on a level, most consoles don’t appreciate that level mob mentality, either. This isn’t to say we haven’t had fun designing console RPGs, but there are limitations, sure.

RPS: Obsidian’s always been a cut above, well, pretty much everyone in terms of writing. And yet, it’s arguable that you haven’t had the success you deserve. Why do you think gamers don’t value great writing in the same way, say, movie viewers do? Or do they? Does modern culture in general discount great writing?

Avellone: Good writing does not make a popular or accessible game. While we value stories and deep character interactions, there are other factors at work that feed into success, and the Kickstarter is proof of our success in the industry. People are willing to back our ideas and stand behind them, and we’re ready to prove ourselves.

 

[Captain Shrek]

 

[IronicNeurotic]

 

[Ion Prothon II]

It doesn't look good.

 

[Infinitron]

 

[CrustyBot]

It looks good.

MHD magic confirmed?

 

[Scruffy]

i just hope that the "hall of heroes" doesn't actually get called that, and eventually gets a non-shitty name.

 

[Infinitron]

i just hope that the "hall of heroes" doesn't actually get called that, and eventually gets a non-shitty name.

It's called the Adventurer's Hall, not "Hall of Heroes".