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Obsidian's Pillars of Eternity [BETA RELEASED, GO TO THE NEW THREAD]

Grunker

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I thought it was like ToB: a boring slog from combat to combat. Tedious when the dungeon feels like a theme park, not something someone once built for a purpose. Durlag's Tower had lots of difficult trials, puzzles and lore to hold it all together. This one didn't give me that feeling.

It didn't? Gave me the prison-gone-wrong feeling aplenty, and the story of the Helmites getting cold feet and sending you in their stead was pretty good. I was always interested in finding out what lay beyond the next corner, what madness I might find next. Each level was its own take on the madness that plagued the tower. Only the first level was sane in some form.
 

Hormalakh

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How the hell was the place a prison? It was a god-damn circus in there. Freaking all sorts of stuff in there that didn't really feel like a dungeon... You got prisoners running around killing everyone (Lum the Mad) ... Durlog's Tower did it right. Watcher's Keep was a rushed Durlog's Tower meant to placate those who realized what a POS most of TOB was.
 

Shadenuat

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If a dungeon has some main theme running through it's nice, but Durlag's tower actually felt more boring to me. It was all doppelgangers this, doppelgangers that.
I say fuck it. A mega dungeon is a multi-leveled unrealistic underground maze full of hostile creatures who, to be interesting and challenging and fresh every level, realistically would never habit it; it is supposedly a "legendary" place everyone knows about but which must be unlooted just because players want loot; a place of absolutely ridiculous devices and types of transportation (even in Durlag's Tower was that chess game... who in his sane or even insane mind create anything even remotely close to that?) because PUZZLES. Yeah, sometimes you can get away with that, maybe it would take place in Underdark or such, but come on. For me, these sorts of places always were the carnival of combat, horror and insane design, a place you make for players to just get easy on roleplaying and roll the dice, see the limbs fly and grab the treasure, and feel satisfaction with that. It's a place to rest for players, for DM, and it's a place to rest for *me*.
 

Hormalakh

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^Then at least make the combat challenges difficult. The first few levels can be easy, but then make it what it's supposed to be: a hard-core tactical challenge. I will play that and enjoy it.
 

Jasede

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Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Codex Year of the Donut I'm very into cock and ball torture
Well, it's all opinion.

You liked the theming and thought they did it well. I didn't. That's all.

And theming is really important to me. You know, like how in Donkey Kong Country 2 every song is monkey-like, how in Persona 4 everything is yellow and up-beat (dialogue, music, characters, colors) vs how in 3 everything is morose and "blue", which was its color. Durlag's Tower was built around a theme and stuck to it. I think you feel the same about Watcher's Keep and it's not that you're wrong it's just that it didn't give me that sort of vibe. Perhaps some more lore could have helped to maintain a better sense of cohesion.

Speaking of theming and all these jRPGs, this is another thing Obsidian has in common with a lot of the jRPGs their developers like: they place extreme importance on theming. Everything in Mask of the Betrayer is about love in some fashion, everything in Torment is about the Nameless One and, well, his torment, everything in KOTOR 2 is about Kreia and betrayal in some way or another.

I really like that about Obsidian... I wish them well, even though I think they are bad at making the actual combat in their games entertaining. Really bad.
 

Jaesun

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MCA Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech
Yeah Obsidian do 3 things very well: Story, Characters and cRPG mechanics. Combat is not one of them. Though I am PRAYING with Tim on board this might be ........OK.
 

IronicNeurotic

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Yeah Obsidian do 3 things very well: Story, Characters and cRPG mechanics. Combat is not one of them. Though I am PRAYING with Tim on board this might be ........OK.

Well, F:NV was a definite improvement over F3. Which is polishing the worst biggest turd, but still. Apart from that Sawyer himself hasn't really a bad track account with IWD2 and F:NV (Ignoring NWN2 since that would be not entirely fair)
 

Roguey

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If the combat in Dullsville turns out good, it'll be because of Josh, not so much Tim. Other factors: not having to improve someone else's shit system (kotor's d&d-lite, 3pointfail D&D, new Fallout) or cater to a larger, console-oriented audience (Alpha Protocol, Dungeon Siege, South Park). This is a never-before-seen situation for them: coming up with their own system while catering to BG/IWD fans.

Plus most of those other games sucked because they didn't have enough Josh.

Anyway, funny things happening: Rob Nesler throwing a fit over negative criticism:
http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/62906-update-34-first-art-update/page__st__160#entry1288395
http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/62906-update-34-first-art-update/page__st__200#entry1288718

I disliked him the moment I saw him mugging for the camera with bottles of liquor. Disliked him even more when I found out he was an artist from inXile, who consistently churn out products with ugly art. His response is laughable especially when held up to Josh's cool demeanor in the NeoGAF thread where they tore the art a new asshole denizsi-style. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if one of them was denizsi.
 

Murk

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I uhh... I don't really see anything wrong in his responses except for one sentence in which he refers to vomiting hate and drama. Then again, so what?
 

Hormalakh

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I am really interested in seeing this NeoGAF thread. I don't peruse that place and couldn't care enough to figure out how to find the appropriate thread. Anyone care to point me there? I want to see the :butthurt:
 

Roguey

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The first post is needlessly sarcastic. The second post brings up the tone argument (i.e. I'll ignore any criticism if it comes across as abusive).
http://www.formspring.me/JESawyer/q/305785716485399313
Are you sarcastic often?

I try to avoid using sarcasm. I feel it's the weakest form of criticism and the least likely to produce a positive change in its target.
And right as usual. I'm only sarcastic when I have no interest in changing anyone's mind and just want to ruffle feathers.

Hormalakh the fun starts here and goes on for quite a few pages: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=491414&page=161

I think the funniest thing is how they relentlessly praise the commissioned art for Wasteland 2 even though the actual graphics looked like an ugly Toy Story.
 

Hormalakh

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The first post is needlessly sarcastic. The second post brings up the tone argument (i.e. I'll ignore any criticism if it comes across as abusive).
http://www.formspring.me/JESawyer/q/305785716485399313
Are you sarcastic often?

I try to avoid using sarcasm. I feel it's the weakest form of criticism and the least likely to produce a positive change in its target.
And right as usual. I'm only sarcastic when I have no interest in changing anyone's mind and just want to ruffle feathers.

Hormalakh the fun starts here and goes on for quite a few pages: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=491414&page=161

I think the funniest thing is how they relentlessly praise the commissioned art for Wasteland 2 even though the actual graphics looked like an ugly Toy Story.
Thanks Roguey :bro:
 

Hormalakh

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:lol: I find it hilarious that so many people on NeoGAF are extremely upset about the forum members' reaction to the art. They can't understand how people are respectful on the Obsidian forums, and complain, "If this concept art was from a small European RPG developer GAF would be laughing its collective ass off. Instead we have people going 'oooh aaah in Obsidian we trust.'" Then when Sawyer shows up, this same guy suddenly gets his act together and replies, "Thanks for providing some insight into how the sausages get made."

It's all gravy when nobody is there to hear the filth spilling from their mouth, but it's harder to talk **** straight to a developer's face. And I don't think that what Sawyer said changed his thoughts one bit - unless he didn't read the update the first time.

Thanks for the direct response to our concerns ---- very reasonable approach and I appreciate your dealing with our b!tching ---- we really all just want this project and your company as a whole to succeed and flourish.
It's great to know that the ears of the devs are open to our feedback and concerns ---- looking forward to the future updates and will try not to get all URRRRR!!!! next time :cool:

Not sure if this was posted, so I thought I'd post it here. It was Sawyer's response to the comments on NeoGAF.
Edair is an ordinary guy, but Edair is not indicative of all characters. He isn't designed the way he is because I think "that's cool", but because it fits his character. He is an unassuming man who tries to keep a low profile. Other wilder/more exotic/unusual characters will be available (and you can make them on your own).
We started modeling Edair first in part because he is a very straightforward character. The problems we are trying to solve in modeling are not related to how cool the character can look, but to how we have to build and export characters in Maya, then into Unity. For such purposes, often the more straightforward characters are better because they're "neutral". Chain mail and leather not make you hop out of bed and scream OWOOOOOGA! but they're things we're pretty likely to have to create and they pose actual challenges for us when it comes to building and rendering it.​

Someone compared the painted portrait of Sagani to the line art of Sagani. You can certainly compare them, but they're made for different purposes. Line art drawings like the ones Polina has done will probably never appear in the game. They're made as reference. Any coloring done after the fact is mostly just to give a sense of volume to the character and his/her gear. The painting of Sagani is a great portrait and we'd like all of our portraits to be that good and in a similar style -- but no one is going to build Sagani from the painting of her. She's in a cool pose with a determined expression, but you're mostly looking at her back and side.​

I understand that people want to see more art, better art, and more unusual art. We will make it. It has always been our intention to do so, but a lot of the problems we're trying to solve right now are logistical, not quality-related, and while paintings like the one of Sagani or even the wallpaper of the whole party are exciting and beautiful, they don't necessarily help us build the game right now.​

Thanks for all of your feedback.​
For those interested.
 

suejak

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That was all really tame. Bored.

Sounds like the artist is a bit of a wimp who worries too much about little things, but nobody is really throwing a fit either. Couldn't have a more boring exchange unless JE Sawyer debated bicycle chassis selection with a rock.
 

Tigranes

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Jan 8, 2009
Messages
10,350
Roguey is butthurt about Rob being allegedly butthurt about random forumer being butthurt about the art update. Give a fuck, I do not.
 

Shadenuat

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Rob's answers about technical part of graphics are educational and he seems to be very open about their work. Stop picking on every developer who gets his head out of cover you angry codexian crows, the game is't dead yet. :M
 

Infinitron

I post news
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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=45084347&postcount=8185
cadegund_from_project_eternity_by_staplesart-d5kr75j.jpg


Hey, not bad.
 

Darth Roxor

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Something looks very wrong about that gal's head, but I can't put my finger on it.
 

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