Obsidian's Pillars of Eternity [BETA RELEASED, GO TO THE NEW THREAD]

[Infinitron]

it is , pure, simple and evident.

So be it.

It still doesn't make the game a Dragon Age clone. It's a streamlined Infinity Engine game, not a console game.

Come on, DnD is not "iconic"?

It's iconic because of its races, its classes, its spell preparation. What else?

 

[Shadenuat]

RPG *experts*.
Right.

 

[tuluse]

Bioware makes crappy shared inventory systems = Oh my god decline decline etc etc

Obsidian says they're using a similar system = GREAT IDEA, INVENTORY WAS ALWAYS A CHORE etc etc

I never had a problem with DA's shared inventory as an idea. The problem was always that the execution was so poor and the MMO style loot drops were annoying.

 

[evdk]

it is , pure, simple and evident.

So be it.

It still doesn't make the game a Dragon Age clone. It's a streamlined Infinity Engine game, not a console game.

That's still decline, they just have further left to fall. in any case release of this game will be hugely entertaining. One new server will not be enough to contain the Codex shitstorm.

 

[Jaesun]

I think there is way more troubling info than just this inventory stuff.

 

[evdk]

There has not been much inclining info lately, that's the problem. This is just the latest in the series of weird design decisions.

 

[Infinitron]

it is , pure, simple and evident.

So be it.

It still doesn't make the game a Dragon Age clone. It's a streamlined Infinity Engine game, not a console game.

That's still decline, they just have further left to fall. in any case release of this game will be hugely entertaining. One new server will not be enough to contain the Codex shitstorm.

I'm pretty sure there will be a significant contingent of "haters" on the Codex for every single Kickstarter pet project that comes out. Wasteland 2 also.

The flamewars will be glorious. Hopefully we'll have time to actually play the games.

There has not been much inclining info lately, that's the problem. This is just the latest in the series of weird design decisions.

These weird design decisions are probably things that RPG designers have wanted to do for a long time, but couldn't change due to the conservative approach imposed by working for an AAA publisher.

Because as dumbed down as they seem, they're also new, and new, unfamiliar systems confuse players.

 

[evdk]

Playing the games is for plebs without any taste and just would get in the way of the flamewars anyway.

 

[Captain Shrek]

Playing the games is for plebs without any taste and just would get in the way of the flamewars anyway.

Yeah. It makes no sense to join places like RPG codex anyway, right?

 

[Grunker]

hahaha

This is literally ripped out of Bioware Market Speech For Newbies, and you can't see it? You're asking whether there's wrong with the game being dumbed down. The game that was heralded as part of the return of the oldschool.

But no no, nothing apologetic going on here.

I say it's a decline and you call me an apologist? Sober up, Grunker. Staff aren't allowed to shitpost.

Your definition of shitposting is becoming "people that don't agree with me." Don't be that guy. And don't presume I act differently than I normally would because I'm staff.

I'm pretty sure there will be a significant contingent of "haters" on the Codex for every single Kickstarter pet project that comes out. Wasteland 2 also.

Oh fuck off. Go read my old posts. I was immensely supportive of this project. I reacted negatively on game design updates and the content within them while you turn the blind eye. Now you just box every critical voice in a common sphere of "haters"? Me and evdk are not Skyway man, and you're a fool for suggesting it. We're simply voicing concerns. Your reaction to just say "no way, that can't be" is telling. At least Roguey makes a case for her apologetic defense.

 

[Infinitron]

Some stuff I've been talking about, relevant here

18:27 - Infinitron: I'm not entirely convinced that streamlined means dumbed down. at least, not in the same sense as people are thinking
18:27 - Infinitron: when AAA publisher says streamline, they mean REMOVAL of choices, not clarification of choices
18:27 - Infinitron: now
18:27 - Infinitron: arguably, clarification of choices is ALSO a decline
18:27 - Infinitron: because clarifying them yourself is part of the challenge
18:27 - Infinitron: but it's a different sort of decline

 

[evdk]

Captain Shrek
You join the Codex for /gd/.

Infinitron
"different kind of decline"? What the fuck, man? Are you trolling?

 

[Infinitron]

Grunker
I'm not an apologist and I wasn't referring to you or anybody else ITT in that post about Wasteland 2. Dude, just leave me alone if you can't into reading comprehension.

evdk
No. Do you realize that different things can be bad in different ways to different people? That some bad things are not as bad as other bad things?

Yes, these things can be complex.

 

[evdk]

Infinitron
You yourself admit it's a decline. What kind of decline it is does not really enter into it. Why should I care that there are people who enjoy the changes? There alway such people and they are idiots akin to those that celebrated Oblivon's dumbing down streamlining.
I am personally waiting for some more indepth magic info to decide whether the project has gone downhill for real or not, but none of the newly released news went beyond "well, duh!" reaction from me so far.

 

[Infinitron]

You yourself admit it's a decline. What kind of decline it is does not really enter into it. Why should I care that there are people who enjoy the changes?

Well, you could be one of them.

In the end of the day, we're talking about a game that will have all the traditional races and classes, lots of text, lots of C&C, a party size of six, skills, perks, feats, stats, spell preparation, attacks of opportunity, sneak attacks, flank attacks and the list goes on.

When people hear the word "streamline" on this forum, they immediately think the worst. I see myself a a "realist" rather than an apologist because I do recognize that concessions are being made - but fuck, people are missing the forest for the trees here.

 

[Grunker]

I see myself a a "realist" rather than an apologist because I do recognize that concessions are being made - but fuck, people are missing the forest for the trees here.

No we're not. We're scaling back our expectations. By being critical. There is a major difference. You perceive us as Skyways, Cassidys and Blacks who are all or nothing.

 

[Broseph]

This is a spiritual successor to the IE games, not fucking Oblivion.

Likewise, if one wants to emulate old school RPGs effectively, you must also stand back and look at the flaws those games possessed and find a way to address them. Games like Arcanum are considered classics IN SPITE of their numerous flaws. I think Sawyer did a good job with this on NV. Of course, FO3 was such a piece of shit that it wouldn't be particularly difficult to improve on its mechanics, but still.

 

[Scruffy]

CODEX DRAMA DEVELOPING

 

[Gord]

I'm with Infinitron on this one. Way too much premature bitching in these kind of threads.
Just like with sports like soccer, football, baseball etc. where everyone knows better than the (professional) trainers, everyone here is a genius game designer. M:

 

[Infinitron]

I don't have time for drama, Steam Winter Sale in 40 minutes.

 

[Grunker]

I don't have time for drama, Steam Winter Sale in 40 minutes.

TRAIN TICKETS BITCH

 

[Brotherman Bill]

So I still haven't seen any good explanation why this new inventory is so bad, except for the same old codex buzzwords. You guys realize that if the entire "top of the pack" thing is implemented, it adds more of a strategic layer to the inventory than there ever was in IE? As mentioned (and never contested) inventory management in IE was busywork at best, and contained no strategic thought. As the top of the pack thing adds a nonzero amount of strategy, it is you guys who are being consoletards for whining about increased strategic debth.


Typical declinefags.

 

[Broseph]

So I still haven't seen any good explanation why this new inventory is so bad, except for the same old codex buzzwords. You guys realize that if the entire "top of the pack" thing is implemented, it adds more of a strategic layer to the inventory than there ever was in IE? As mentioned (and never contested) inventory management in IE was busywork at best, and contained no strategic thought. As the top of the pack thing adds a nonzero amount of strategy, it is you guys who are being consoletards for whining about increased strategic debth.


Typical declinefags.

 

[tuluse]

So I still haven't seen any good explanation why this new inventory is so bad, except for the same old codex buzzwords. You guys realize that if the entire "top of the pack" thing is implemented, it adds more of a strategic layer to the inventory than there ever was in IE? As mentioned (and never contested) inventory management in IE was busywork at best, and contained no strategic thought. As the top of the pack thing adds a nonzero amount of strategy, it is you guys who are being consoletards for whining about increased strategic debth.


Typical declinefags.

I'd fist you but DU hates us plebs.

 

[Infinitron]

I can understand why people think the traditional inventory is best.

Basically, what Sawyer is doing is making a clear separation between a "tactical inventory" and a "strategic inventory". He's doing this for lots of systems, as you've probably noticed.

But sometimes, the most tense moments in gameplay come when your tactical and strategic interests mix with each other and conflict with one another. There's a legitimate fear here that the complex interplay between the tactical and the strategic realms is being lost.