Obsidian's Pillars of Eternity [BETA RELEASED, GO TO THE NEW THREAD]

[Infinitron]

What strategic consideration from inventory doesn't come from looting, its not a afterthought, and what tactical considerations we'll have from looting doesn't actually need a stash.

Looting in RPGs is basically an OCD behavior, no question about it. But people engage in it, and I can see why a game designer would want to make it less painful for them. So they can at least get it over with and focus on the good stuff.

 

[Lancehead]

Wouldn't that introduce a sort of item scaling?

 

[Delterius]

"strategic inventory and its tactical role in looting things"

If that's about me, I'm mostly talking about looking at future encounters and arranging 'quickslots' (as in the IE games, or here with what you can actually carry) accordingly. On the short term, looting can add new components to that, but you hardly need a lot of space for what few actually important items you'll find in the middle of a dungeon.

What strategic consideration from inventory doesn't come from looting, its not a afterthought, and what tactical considerations we'll have from looting doesn't actually need a stash.

Looting in RPGs is basically an OCD behavior, no question about it. But people engage in it, and I can see why a game designer would want to make it less painful for them. So they can at least get it over with and focus on the good stuff.

Look at it this way.

If people started warping back and forth in Diablo 3 because they actually want to loot every little useless thing and sell it, the developers could certainly add a stash to the game. But something else they could do is actually improve Diablo 3's looting.

 

[Hormalakh]

I don't understand why everyone's hating on Sawyer. Finally got an answer to a question that's been bothering me for a long time...

Any thoughts on whether there will be any class-restricted abilities or whether some classes will have more passive/active abilities, or will all abilities be equally available to all classes?

Capital-A Abilities are always class-specific. Talents are a mix of class-specific and class-neutral abilities. Some Talents will be open to anyone but unlock earlier for characters of certain classes, races, or cultures. Outside of class restrictions, it will be rare for Talents to have strict prerequisites that do not eventually open up to all characters of a certain level. E.g. Alteration School Specialization will never open for non-wizards because it specifically augments wizard spells. Weapon Specialization will likely be available to Fighters at low levels with certain specializations opening early to characters of any class who are elves, Aedyrans, etc. Then at a higher level, Weapon Specialization will be available to characters of any class as long as they meet the level requirement.

As for @Shrek, he's talked about this before.

I get that, but how do you explain the stash within the lore? "Suspend your disbelief and let us break the fourth wall for your convenience" doesn't really sound conducive to telling a great story.

e: Also, isn't the fact that you even need a send-to-stash mechanism indicative of there being too much loot? Why does every longsword-bearing bandit in leather armor need to drop a longsword and leather armor?

This really sounds like you're picking your personal flavor of verisimilitude. You don't like having an infinite stash of field-inaccessible loot, but you're fine with having IE-style weight limits even thought that typically means characters can carry a dozen weapons and/or two, three, or even four full suits of armor -- and you're also fine if a bandit who wields a longsword and wears leather armor can't be looted for those items after he or she dies.

http://forums.somethingawful.com/sh...=3506352&userid=17931&perpage=40&pagenumber=7

 

[Infinitron]

Fuck Adraeus. I WANT every bandit to drop the stuff he's wearing. I specifically told Josh I wanted the game to work that way. I'm glad he listened to me.

If people started warping back and forth in Diablo 3 because they actually want to loot every little useless thing and sell it, the developers could certainly add a stash to the game. But something else they could do is actually improve Diablo 3's looting.

How would you improve it? Bandits drop their armor and sword that they were using. Players want to sell them.

 

[Captain Shrek]

Wouldn't that introduce a sort of item scaling?

Very good.

The easiest thing to not unfix since its not broken. Don't give too many magical weapons like in NWN2. Problem solved.

 

[Hormalakh]

I think that as long as the stash isn't infinite, that this isn't a problem. When you leave a map area, the items disappear.

If the stash is infinite, then it becomes that much harder to limit degenerate gameplay. Absolutely EVERYTHING will be picked up, stones, brooms, shovels, etc etc. You sell what you can't and you never drop what you can't. That probably isn't good for savegames having every single item in-game localized to your stash. I could be wrong about the techincal aspects.

 

[Infinitron]

I think that as long as the stash isn't infinite, that this isn't a problem. When you leave a map area, the items disappear.

If the stash is infinite, then it becomes that much harder to limit degenerate gameplay. Absolutely EVERYTHING will be picked up, stones, brooms, shovels, etc etc. You sell what you can't and you never drop what you can't. That probably isn't good for savegames having every single item in-game localized to your stash. I could be wrong about the techincal aspects.

This isn't going to be an Elder Scrolls-type game. You won't be able to pick up literally everything.

At least, you couldn't do that in the IE games.

 

[Hormalakh]

As for @Shrek, he's talked about this before.

http://forums.somethingawful.com/sh...=3506352&userid=17931&perpage=40&pagenumber=7

Dude.

I think this stuff must be too difficult for you to get on since this is the THIRD fucking time I have to explain to you that REALISM concerning inventory/stash/backpack is retarded.

Can't you read? He specifically asked about "not letting everythign be lootable" and Josh responded to that. Wasn't that your concern? I didn't say "realism" ANYWHERE. You are making assumptions left and right when Josh has already answered someone that has the same "concerns" as you.

Really, I think you don't even understand how it's going to work and are just up-in-arms over nothing. You don't like change. Deal with it.

 

[Hormalakh]

I think that as long as the stash isn't infinite, that this isn't a problem. When you leave a map area, the items disappear.

If the stash is infinite, then it becomes that much harder to limit degenerate gameplay. Absolutely EVERYTHING will be picked up, stones, brooms, shovels, etc etc. You sell what you can't and you never drop what you can't. That probably isn't good for savegames having every single item in-game localized to your stash. I could be wrong about the techincal aspects.

This isn't going to be an Elder Scrolls-type game. You won't be able to pick up literally everything.

At least, you couldn't do that in the IE games.

Right but don't you think having 200 leather armors and 200 short swords in your stash strictly for getting cash is a little overkill? That would happen in BG. There would be so many enemies that you couldn't possibly pick everything up. Having the stash being large isn't a problem. Make it large. But make it limited.

 

[Infinitron]

Right but don't you think having 200 leather armors and 200 short swords in your stash strictly for getting cash is a little overkill? That would happen in BG. There would be so many enemies that you couldn't possibly pick everything up. Having the stash being large isn't a problem. Make it large. But make it limited.

Ah, I see what you mean. Yes, I did leave rusty short swords lying in dungeons in BG.

That said, I don't think I would have earned a lot of money by selling them even if I had taken them.

This whole thing is kind of silly, but I don't see anything wrong with throwing a bone to the players with OCD. Ask Sawyer to limit the stash for Hardcore Mode.

 

[Hormalakh]

No skin off my nose. Hardcore is what I'll be playing anyway.

 

[Delterius]

Fuck Adraeus. I WANT every bandit to drop the stuff he's wearing. I specifically told Josh I wanted the game to work that way. I'm glad he listened to me.

If people started warping back and forth in Diablo 3 because they actually want to loot every little useless thing and sell it, the developers could certainly add a stash to the game. But something else they could do is actually improve Diablo 3's looting.

How would you improve it? Bandits drop their armor and sword that they were using. Players want to sell them.

Improvement was specific for Diablo 3, in here I simply don't see any need for the stash. I'm highly skeptical that anyone would walk back and forth from town to sell regular equipment that's often not even worth double digits in gold.

 

[Infinitron]

Improvement was specific for Diablo 3, in here I simply don't see any need for the stash. I'm highly skeptical that most people would walk back and forth from town to sell regular equipment that's often not even worth double digits in gold.

Some people go really crazy about these things. Deus Ex: Human Revolution had stores where you could sell guns, but they only let you hold one of each type of gun at a time, to prevent people from abusing the economy and earning too much money.

It didn't work. People would take guns to the stores one by one and sell them. Smart people, even.

 

[Delterius]

Improvement was specific for Diablo 3, in here I simply don't see any need for the stash. I'm highly skeptical that most people would walk back and forth from town to sell regular equipment that's often not even worth double digits in gold.

Some people go really crazy about these things. Deus Ex: Human Revolution had stores where you could sell guns, but they only let you hold one of each type of gun at a time, to prevent people from abusing the economy and earning too much money.

It didn't work. People would take guns to the stores one by one and sell them. Smart people, even.

I think one key difference here is that you can actually get money like that. Common loot in the IE games wasn't worth it, even in the early game of BG1.

 

[Hormalakh]

I get that, but how do you explain the stash within the lore? "Suspend your disbelief and let us break the fourth wall for your convenience" doesn't really sound conducive to telling a great story.

Must be someone else's question.

So then explain to me what EXACTLY you have an issue with? You don't like stash because it's a single button that puts everything into your inventory? You don't like it because you can't access the shit at every point when you're going to sell that stuff anyway? You don't like it because you want to be able to pick up each item one by one by clicking and dragging it over into your inventory? You want to "manage your inventory space?"

What exactly about any of that was "fun?" I thought you hated "MMO grindfest." What difference does it make if you're clicking the mouse button to drag shit over into your inventory or if you're bopping a mole on the head? They're both skinner boxes.

 

[Hormalakh]

So your main problem is 2 and 3. 1 is a non-issue because nobody is saying "stash" is realistic. Really. NOBODY.

2) So now that combat doesn't give experience per kill, you also want to get rid of loot as a reason for killing too? Why would I even kill anyone in this game then? If I can't mug a few people, what's the point? "Junk loot" can be sold for money. There's an actual reason for it. Armor that gets dropped can be used as weapons. Or do you want the computer to sit and calculate whether the loot dropped would be worth more or less than the weapons/armor currently equipped? Or should the non-magical long swords/armors only be dropped in the beginning of the game when they're useful? Or should enemies not drop weapons/armor at all and only drop gold for you?

3) I hear "I HATE CHANGE." You're not giving a good reason why this change is particularly bad. I have heard multiple reasons why this change is good. One example is when I think about all the times I was carrying around huge amounts of ammo/potions/10-20 different kinds of weapons that I wasn't sure I'd use or not/armors that had specific uses (fire protection, etc).

Try again.

 

[Dorateen]

Doesn't the Player have the choice to pick up or not pick up trash drops? Why is any attempt being made to facilitate, or streamline, a decision that rests with the player. Developers should stop sticking their collective noses in how people play their games.

 

[Excidium]

So your main problem is 2 and 3. 1 is a non-issue because nobody is saying "stash" is realistic. Really. NOBODY.

2) So now that combat doesn't give experience per kill, you also want to get rid of loot as a reason for killing too? Why would I even kill anyone in this game then? If I can't mug a few people, what's the point? "Junk loot" can be sold for money. There's an actual reason for it. Armor that gets dropped can be used as can weapons. Or do you want the computer to sit and calculate whether the loot dropped would be worth more or less than the weapons/armor currently equipped? Or should the non-magical long swords/armors only be dropped in the beginning of the game when they're useful? Or should enemies not drop weapons/armor at all and only drop gold for you?

3) I hear "I HATE CHANGE." You're not giving a good reason why this change is particularly bad. I have heard multiple reasons why this change is good. Try again.

Dude.

>1 is a non-issue because nobody is saying "stash" is realistic. Really. NOBODY.

I get that, but how do you explain the stash within the lore? "Suspend your disbelief and let us break the fourth wall for your convenience" doesn't really sound conducive to telling a great story.

And many more besides you.

That's not about realism.

 

[Excidium]

The lore that is completely fantastical to begin with?

 

[Broseph]

Dorateen Yeah, and Sawyer isn't doing that. The whole stash idea was made to cater to loot hoarders. Some people seem to be butthurt about loot whores loot whoring though.

 

[Captain Shrek]

The lore that is completely fantastical to begin with?

Realism is defined WITHIN the narrative ? o_O

 

[Excidium]

Why the fuck are you still talking about realism?

 

[evdk]

The lore that is completely fantastical to begin with?

That does not answer the question.

 

[Excidium]

The point is people want a system that makes sense, one that isn't just a random fart of game design but is supported by some strand of logic within the game's fiction.