Obsidian's Pillars of Eternity [BETA RELEASED, GO TO THE NEW THREAD]

[Captain Shrek]

And they are concerned about the inventory?????

When there are more important problems????

 

[Excidium]

Perhaps they already went over those problems in the last 400 or so pages, and inventory is one of the points raised by the last update?

It's like complaining that people were arguing over the Wasteland 2 screenshot in the news thread about the Wasteland 2 screenshot...

 

[Dorateen]

Dorateen Yeah, and Sawyer isn't doing that. The whole stash idea was made to cater to loot hoarders. Some people seem to be butthurt about loot whores loot whoring though.

That was the streamlining part I was talking about. Why is he catering to loot hoarders in the first place? Now I've been known to carry around a spare weapon or two, but don't consider our party a pack of hoarders. Then again, what business is it of the developer. I didn't ask for some rapid transport system to stash away hard-earned treasure in town while in the middle of a dungeon.

It's really a case of excessive nanny-state hand-holding.

 

[Broseph]

I agree with you, but I think Sawyer's whole mantra is that he wants to cater to every type of player, within reason. You could call that decline, but as long as all the options are there for hardcore players I don't see why it's such a big deal.

 

[Broseph]

Furthermore, if the game's economy is balanced I don't see why we need to worry about OCD players selling off every iron dagger they find.

 

[evdk]

Furthermore, if the game's economy is balanced I don't see why we need to worry about OCD players selling off every iron dagger they find.

Balanced game economy, coming the thursday after working AI is first introduced to the mass market.

 

[Lancehead]

The concern would be if the top of pack has generous amount of space. I'd like to be forced to choose between a few utility items and a weapon with different damage type than currently equipped.

 

[Broseph]

Furthermore, if the game's economy is balanced I don't see why we need to worry about OCD players selling off every iron dagger they find.

Balanced game economy, coming the thursday after working AI is first introduced to the mass market.

 

[Hormalakh]

Dorateen Yeah, and Sawyer isn't doing that. The whole stash idea was made to cater to loot hoarders. Some people seem to be butthurt about loot whores loot whoring though.

That was the streamlining part I was talking about. Why is he catering to loot hoarders in the first place? Now I've been known to carry around a spare weapon or two, but don't consider our party a pack of hoarders. Then again, what business is it of the developer. I didn't ask for some rapid transport system to stash away hard-earned treasure in town while in the middle of a dungeon.

It's really a case of excessive nanny-state hand-holding.

it really doesn't help your point when you don't even understand how the system is meant to work in the first place. the items you pick up aren't "whisked away magically" to town. They're kept in a party loot bag that is accessible to the whole party at certain locations. In-town is one of them, but you can also access it at merchants (which can be out of town), at camp-sites (which definitely are out of town).

There are several reasons why he's doing this:
1-strategy/tactics.
2-there has been discussion (on the forums) about how accessing inventory can sometimes be a pain because of the need to have to shuffle between different party members to organize inventory. sometimes people have to filp through all their party members just to find that one scroll or potion that they've been looking for. a singular stash simplifies this scavenging.
3-sometimes players will keep several armors and weapons on hand not as loot but as situational equipment. they only get used on certain enemies (dragon shield with +3 against dragons or dragon scale against dragons, that kind of thing). Instead of having a box somewhere where you stash that stuff, you can carry it with you. but at a point, you have to choose the items you want in the dungeon, for example, so that you don't get to flip through all your stored situational equipment. You bring out the shield and the armor because you're going into the dragon cave. otherwise you have to trek back to camp to dump out all your stash to find those shields and armors. hence tactics/strategy.

these are 3 reasons that come to mind which are not even relevant to loot for why this inventory is a good idea. there are other reasons players have mentioned on the forums as well.

 

[Excidium]

You could really replace every one of your posts with that retard face to save everyone's time. Stop giving me alerts FFS

I agree with you, but I think Sawyer's whole mantra is that he wants to cater to every type of player, within reason. You could call that decline, but as long as all the options are there for hardcore players I don't see why it's such a big deal.

 

[Temaperacl]

T

What strategic consideration from inventory doesn't come from looting, its not a afterthought, and what tactical considerations we'll have from looting doesn't actually need a stash.

Looting in RPGs is basically an OCD behavior, no question about it. But people engage in it, and I can see why a game designer would want to make it less painful for them. So they can at least get it over with and focus on the good stuff.

Wow.

Seems like Sawyer is double retarded in everything.

WHY NOT FUCKING GET RID OF JUNK LOOT!!!! x-(

It depends on what you mean by junk loot - if you mean true worthless filler trash, then I have no argument - get rid of it.

On the other hand, there can be a purpose to having lots of, say, iron daggers available - by hiding the valuable items in a pile of non-valuable items, we don't put a big blinking light over something saying "This is important!" (Think some of the Gold Box games where much of the time you had to have to guess, try to carry everything, or make sure you had the appropriate non-combat spell ready in order to tell which of those long swords / daggers, if any, was special.).

Removing the extra 'iron daggers' in this case would remove that decision making regarding if it is worth it to use non-combat identification abilities/spells/items in place of options that would help you in a fight and/or trying to figure out from the pile of loot if it makes sense to use those abilities or if there is other information you can glean to pick out the special or useful equipment without them.

Not getting rid of it, though, leads to some people being OCD about collecting and selling as much as possible. Of course, I don't think that just making a place where you can dump everything and sort it out later is the best solution to that "problem".

 

[evdk]

it really doesn't help your point when you don't even understand how the system is meant to work in the first place. the items you pick up aren't "whisked away magically" to town. They're kept in a party loot bag that is accessible to the whole party at certain locations. In-town is one of them, but you can also access it at merchants (which can be out of town), at camp-sites (which definitely are out of town).

So you actually carry all that with you but are only able to access it in town or in camp... why exactly? Geas? Honor code to give the monsters a sporting chance? What?

these are 3 reasons that come to mind which are not even relevant to loot for why this inventory is a good idea. there are other reasons players have mentioned on the forums as well.

"I cannot find Caius Cossades, therefore quest compass is a good design idea." And you can have strategy/tactics without it, as seen in... almost every RPG ever.

 

[GordonHalfman]

Will items have to be identified in PE? I thought that would surely be another casualty of Sawyers glorious gamist revolution.

 

[Hormalakh]

So you actually carry all that with you but are only able to access it in town or in camp... why exactly? Geas? Honor code to give the monsters a sporting chance? What?

because unpacking that shit from a heavily packed "stash" is insane when you're in a dangerous dungeon with monsters everywhere. things falling out making noise. what if you get attacked? these are "in-game" reasons for it. it also brings strategy to the game.

say you're in a dungeon and you come across 4 plate armors, 6 magical weapons and so on and so forth. let's say you also have your top of stash filled with potions, scrolls, and other consumables and situational gear for the adventure.now you find an unidentified weapon and are not sure whether you want to hold on to it in your top of stash or to stash it away until you get back to town. that becomes a more interesting choice than HERP DERP I'll drop this worthless +1 sword and keep/use this instead.

 

[Dorateen]

Dorateen Yeah, and Sawyer isn't doing that. The whole stash idea was made to cater to loot hoarders. Some people seem to be butthurt about loot whores loot whoring though.

That was the streamlining part I was talking about. Why is he catering to loot hoarders in the first place? Now I've been known to carry around a spare weapon or two, but don't consider our party a pack of hoarders. Then again, what business is it of the developer. I didn't ask for some rapid transport system to stash away hard-earned treasure in town while in the middle of a dungeon.

It's really a case of excessive nanny-state hand-holding.

it really doesn't help your point when you don't even understand how the system is meant to work in the first place. the items you pick up aren't "whisked away magically" to town. They're kept in a party loot bag that is accessible to the whole party at certain locations. In-town is one of them, but you can also access it at merchants (which can be out of town), at camp-sites (which definitely are out of town).

OK, help me understand. Why can't I access the loot bag in the middle of a dungeon, to get at the items I plucked off an orc-ish creature back on level one. The conclusion I have drawn, perhaps mistakenly, was that the developer is assuming the player is gathering loot only to be sold in town (or at a merchant's camp) anyway. So rather than create inventory clutter, it will just be accessible at certain designated areas, which you mentioned. Completely take it out of the player's consideration once they've grabbed the item. I don't think it's a design that's necessary.

What I'm trying to say is, the player should decide if it serves a useful purpose worthy of carrying, or else leave it or drop the item when there's no room. I'm in favor of limited inventory slots and weight restrictions.

 

[Broseph]

You could really replace every one of your posts with that retard face to save everyone's time. Stop giving me alerts FFS

I agree with you, but I think Sawyer's whole mantra is that he wants to cater to every type of player, within reason. You could call that decline, but as long as all the options are there for hardcore players I don't see why it's such a big deal.

I couldn't care less if retards want to play PE, just so long as the hardcore options are both present and not half assed in their execution. More retards playing the game means more cash for Obsidian, after all.

 

[Hormalakh]

i really don't think you guys are getting it. this inventory isn't a step down. it's actually a step up. choices you make in managing inventory with his system actually matter (when they're supposed to) - in dungeons and combat situations. there isn't a logical reason why he would limit access to gear otherwise. and hence, why he is doing it this way.

you CAN access the loot that matters BUT ONLY if you put it in TOP OF STASH. If you think it doesn't matter, stash it. If you thnik it matters, then TOP OF STASH IT or EQUIP it. IF you don't have TOP OF STASH space, then you gotta stash something to make space for it. otherwise you go back to camp before you can use that unidentified sword.

 

[Arkeus]

it really doesn't help your point when you don't even understand how the system is meant to work in the first place. the items you pick up aren't "whisked away magically" to town. They're kept in a party loot bag that is accessible to the whole party at certain locations. In-town is one of them, but you can also access it at merchants (which can be out of town), at camp-sites (which definitely are out of town).

So you actually carry all that with you but are only able to access it in town or in camp... why exactly? Geas? Honor code to give the monsters a sporting chance? What?

You are basically putting excess things in a big stash of holding where it's easy to store things, but hard to find what's stored, so you need to be in a "safe" place to look and find what's there.

Belt: What you can use in combat. Think IE's quickbar.
Top-of-the-pack: what you can use out of combat. You can switch those items for belt items out of combat for preparations and so on.
Stash: you can only open it up in safe places where you can rest/town/shops, and where you put items you won't need in the immediate dungeon (quest items for other quests than current, weapons that your characters can't currently use, etc).

 

[evdk]

So you actually carry all that with you but are only able to access it in town or in camp... why exactly? Geas? Honor code to give the monsters a sporting chance? What?

because unpacking that shit from a heavily packed "stash" is insane when you're in a dangerous dungeon with monsters everywhere. things falling out making noise. what if you get attacked? these are "in-game" reasons for it. it also brings strategy to the game.

say you're in a dungeon and you come across 4 plate armors, 6 magical weapons and so on and so forth. let's say you also have your top of stash filled with potions, scrolls, and other consumables and situational gear for the adventure.now you find an unidentified weapon and are not sure whether you want to hold on to it in your top of stash or to stash it away until you get back to town. that becomes a more interesting choice than HERP DERP I'll drop this worthless +1 sword and keep/use this instead.

Unless I have read Sawyer's quotes horribly wrong, you can store items in the stash whenever and wherever you want. So the "oh noes, too noisy" excuse kinda doesn't hold water.

You are basically putting excess things in a big stash of holding where it's easy to store things, but hard to find what's stored, so you need to be in a "safe" place to look and find what's there.

Sure, why not. I mean I would not be entirely happy, but this explanation would at least be better than Sawyer's gamist "because I think it is good design" one. But I am a simulationist at heart, so take that with a grain of salt.

 

[Hormalakh]

you can STASH stuff. You just can't UNSTASH stuff.

You haven't read Sawyer wrong. You read my quotes wrong.

 

[evdk]

you can STASH stuff. You just can't UNSTASH stuff.

You haven't read Sawyer wrong. You read my quotes wrong.

STASHing stuff is magically a silent and safe procedure, while UNSTASHing is a noise, time consuming and dangerous process, gotcha.

Well, not really.

EDIT: Where did I read you wrong, this is what you claimed.

 

[Lancehead]

Dorateen The inventory system still leaves the decision up to you, only now Sawyer is adding an option that is catering to loot whores. You'd simply treat the pack as your main inventory, one which isn't available in-combat. But that's fine because the combat is designed without healing potions or spells.

 

[Hormalakh]

you can STASH stuff. You just can't UNSTASH stuff.

You haven't read Sawyer wrong. You read my quotes wrong.

STASHing stuff is magically a silent and safe procedure, while UNSTASHing is a noise, time consuming and dangerous process, gotcha.

Well, not really.

look that was just an example. you ever gone on a trip? ever packed a suitcase? you don't unpack your suitcase for a toothbrush at the airport or when all sorts of shit is going on around you. you put your toothbrush in your carry on. it's the same idea. shit that isn't used for this trip gets stuffed in the suitcase. your top of stash is your carry-on.

if you get a better toothbrush (an electric one let's say), you stuff the old one in your suitcase. now if you forget that your new toothbrush needs batteries, you don't open your suitcase at the airport, you make do with your battery-less electric toothbrush.

am i being unclear? I don't know how else to say it.

 

[evdk]

you can STASH stuff. You just can't UNSTASH stuff.

You haven't read Sawyer wrong. You read my quotes wrong.

STASHing stuff is magically a silent and safe procedure, while UNSTASHing is a noise, time consuming and dangerous process, gotcha.

Well, not really.

look that was just an example. you ever gone on a trip? ever packed a suitcase? you don't unpack your suitcase for a toothbrush at the airport. you put your toothbrush in your carry on. it's the same idea. shit that isn't used for this trip gets stuffed in the suitcase. your top of stash is your carry-on.

am i being unclear? I don't know how else to say it.

I understood you from the first moment, I just do not agree.

 

[Hormalakh]

I understood you from the first moment, I just do not agree.

you don't agree because you think it's lame that you can't open your stash or you don't agree because you think this inventory mechanic is "streamlined for the retards?" whatever the case is for why you can't open your stash, this doesn't mean that the new inventory mechanic is harkening back to
"CONSOLETARDS D:A2 MMO BLARGGGGGGHGHGH"