Obsidian's Pillars of Eternity [BETA RELEASED, GO TO THE NEW THREAD]

[Infinitron]

All can say Infinitron is that your definition of trash mobs does not overlap with mine. Trash mobs that are strategically placed and create some challenge as well as fun along the way are not trash mobs, at all. Merelty enemies.

I don't see how goblins and kobolds with one hit point can be considered anything but trash mobs. It's how you use them that counts.

 

[Mrowak]

All can say Infinitron is that your definition of trash mobs does not overlap with mine. Trash mobs that are strategically placed and create some challenge as well as fun along the way are not trash mobs, at all. Merelty enemies.

I don't see how goblins and kobolds with one hit point can be considered anything but trash mobs. It's how you use them that counts.

That's encounter design for you. As long as they are meaningful used they are not trash. Unless of course they whole encounter is there just for you to waste some spells you can regenerate by sleeping. Then it is trash encounter. Similarly if you just traverse dungeon and you meet samey groups of them and keep slaughtering them time and time again.

"Trash" generaly denotes that something is pointless.

BG1 without SCS1 mod had plenty of such encounters, which is one of the main reasons I consider it infinitely inferior to BG2.

 

[Harold]

If you make loot too scarce, the game won't pop your RPG cherry.

How so?
Just to give a recent example, Bloodlines had very little loot yet it popped many people's RPG cherry.
Incidentally, it also had an objective based xp reward system. The fact that Sawyer wants to make PE heavily combat and loot based, but apply an objective based xp reward system is pretty schizoid design. Not surprising however, coming from a schizoid dude such as he.

 

[suejak]

Do you guys know that that idiom means to take one's virginity? You're using it wrong.

 

[Harold]

Do you guys know that that idiom means to take one's virginity? You're using it wrong.

I know. I was just using his exact words to reply to him. Forgot to put them between ' '

 

[SwiftCrack]

All can say Infinitron is that your definition of trash mobs does not overlap with mine. Trash mobs that are strategically placed and create some challenge as well as fun along the way are not trash mobs, at all. Merelty enemies.

I don't see how goblins and kobolds with one hit point can be considered anything but trash mobs. It's how you use them that counts.

That's encounter design for you. As long as they are meaningful used they are not trash. Unless of course they whole encounter is there just for you to waste some spells you can regenerate by sleeping. Then it is trash encounter. Similarly if you just traverse dungeon and you meet samey groups of them and keep slaughtering them time and time again.

"Trash" generaly denotes that something is pointless.

BG1 without SCS1 mod had plenty of such encounters, which is one of the main reasons I consider it infinitely inferior to BG2.

The BG2 introdungeon is one big trash grind

 

[Mrowak]

All can say Infinitron is that your definition of trash mobs does not overlap with mine. Trash mobs that are strategically placed and create some challenge as well as fun along the way are not trash mobs, at all. Merelty enemies.

I don't see how goblins and kobolds with one hit point can be considered anything but trash mobs. It's how you use them that counts.

That's encounter design for you. As long as they are meaningful used they are not trash. Unless of course they whole encounter is there just for you to waste some spells you can regenerate by sleeping. Then it is trash encounter. Similarly if you just traverse dungeon and you meet samey groups of them and keep slaughtering them time and time again.

"Trash" generaly denotes that something is pointless.

BG1 without SCS1 mod had plenty of such encounters, which is one of the main reasons I consider it infinitely inferior to BG2.

The BG2 introdungeon is one big trash grind

Prologues are like that. :shrugs:

 

[Harg Harfardarssen]

All can say Infinitron is that your definition of trash mobs does not overlap with mine. Trash mobs that are strategically placed and create some challenge as well as fun along the way are not trash mobs, at all. Merelty enemies.

I don't see how goblins and kobolds with one hit point can be considered anything but trash mobs. It's how you use them that counts.

That's encounter design for you. As long as they are meaningful used they are not trash. Unless of course they whole encounter is there just for you to waste some spells you can regenerate by sleeping. Then it is trash encounter. Similarly if you just traverse dungeon and you meet samey groups of them and keep slaughtering them time and time again.

"Trash" generaly denotes that something is pointless.

BG1 without SCS1 mod had plenty of such encounters, which is one of the main reasons I consider it infinitely inferior to BG2.

I thought the term trash mob originated as an MMO term describing any non-boss enemy (I'm guessing they were called trash b/c their loot drops were thrown away like trash).

Insert WoW combat always being pointless joke here. :rimshot:

Then again, usage trumps etymology and it seems like alot of people use the term both ways. Maybe trash mob defenders and critics actually agree in substance and are just using the term in different ways? I can't imagine anyone who likes crappy, repetitive encounters or anyone who argues there should only be boss enemies in every game.

 

[Grunker]

So-called "trash" mobs are great, fuck the haters.

Your point being? I had fun killing most of that shit, and it went pretty fast doing it. The key problem of DA here was that it thought it was an IE-game and stuck in a similar amount of encounters, but it lacked anything remotely similar to the enemy and encounter-variety of the IE-games. I mean, look at that sad, short list. It was still plenty fun though.

 

[Hormalakh]

The BG2 introdungeon is one big trash grind

It's funny, I thought so too. Then I played it with SCS II and I thought it suddenly became infinitely better. I think it's missing a whole "survival" mindset. There are too many potions and wands at your disposal and the dungeon becomes just too easy. With SCS, potions became much more important and it was much more fun to play.

You also get to rest only once, giving the whole dungeon a feel of "you gotta get out before Irenicus gets back" feel. They needed to rush players out of there.

 

[Pablosdog]

The intro dungeon of bg2 would have been great if it wasn't so boring. The experiments were a nice touch though.

 

[Brotherman Bill]

As proven by this thread - if you like original good combat, Josh Sawyer is your man. If you like trash mobs and Dragon Age Origins, he isn't.


Pick a side, popamolers.

 

[Hormalakh]

That isn't a loaded statement at all

 

[Captain Shrek]

As proven by this thread - if you like original good combat, Josh Sawyer is your man. If you like trash mobs and Dragon Age Origins, he isn't.


Pick a side, popamolers.

yeah.

Pick a side of the guy who probably put all the trash mobs in NWN2 and IWD2. Both options are shit.

 

[Hormalakh]

yeah.

Pick a side of the guy who probably put all the trash mobs in NWN2 and IWD2. Both options are shit.

probably

Yeah, you're not biased either.

 

[Grunker]

That isn't a loaded statement at all

what are you insinuating, hero is a witness of uncontested truths

anyway, i love the ie games, which sawyer says he does too, so i'm afraid i don't get what you're saying herostratus

even more ironic is the fact IWD2 probably has more "trash" mobs than any other ie game per encounter

 

[Roguey]

IWD2 was full of trash because the team was afraid the harsh time constraints would result in a short game and they were still coming off all the criticism they got for Heart of Winter's lack of content.

Fortunately they're going into P:E wary of this.

 

[DraQ]

All I know is that hitting the inventory cap in Dragon Age or Witcher 2 was very annoying. Getting killed in those games was not so annoying.

Interesting.
The obvious question, begging to be asked is "why?".

I don't know, nor care about DA, but in TW2 the problem was that crafting mechanics forced you to collect and carry materials in bulk. Yes, if you have limited inventory, but are forced to move around massive quantities of stuff using this limited inventory alone, then the gameplay will suffer.
It says nothing about impact of limited inventory itself, only that if mechanics and gameplay don't support each other frustration will ensue.

I've never seen any sensible person complaining about carry limit in, say, STALKER.

One doesn't listen. Give people what they want, not what for which they ask.

No. Give people what they *need*. Not what they want.

 

[Mother Russia]

Why the fuck are they putting Kobolds and Goblins into this game? Is it so fucking hard to break away from the boring and uninspired mold of D&D and actually do something original, yet in a similar spirit (for sales ofcourse)? Instead of trashy kobolds, why not have tougher and deadlier foes, like dark hounds, minor daemons, etc etc?

 

[Infinitron]

Why the fuck are they putting Kobolds and Goblins into this game? Is it so fucking hard to break away from the boring and uninspired mold of D&D and actually do something original, yet in a similar spirit (for sales ofcourse)? Instead of trashy kobolds, why not have tougher and deadlier foes, like dark hounds, minor daemons, etc etc?

We have no idea what sort of monsters there will be in Project Eternity. Those were just hypothetical examples of trash mobs.

 

[Captain Shrek]

To be perfectly honest i will not be surprised to see goblins, trolls and kobolds. Orcs are already in the game.

 

[Infinitron]

Orcs are already in the game.

Source?

 

[Captain Shrek]

Orcs are already in the game.

Source?

One of the playing races is Half orcs.

Ha.

Rapes are also in the game.

 

[Infinitron]

Orcs are already in the game.

Source?

One of the playing races is Half orcs.

Ha.

Rapes are also in the game.

derp, it's not actually a half-orc: http://eternitywiki.com/Aumaua

It just looks like the equivalent of it, that's why everybody is calling it a "half-orc". But it's not actually a "half"-race at all.

 

[Mrowak]

All can say Infinitron is that your definition of trash mobs does not overlap with mine. Trash mobs that are strategically placed and create some challenge as well as fun along the way are not trash mobs, at all. Merelty enemies.

I don't see how goblins and kobolds with one hit point can be considered anything but trash mobs. It's how you use them that counts.

That's encounter design for you. As long as they are meaningful used they are not trash. Unless of course they whole encounter is there just for you to waste some spells you can regenerate by sleeping. Then it is trash encounter. Similarly if you just traverse dungeon and you meet samey groups of them and keep slaughtering them time and time again.

"Trash" generaly denotes that something is pointless.

BG1 without SCS1 mod had plenty of such encounters, which is one of the main reasons I consider it infinitely inferior to BG2.

I thought the term trash mob originated as an MMO term describing any non-boss enemy (I'm guessing they were called trash b/c their loot drops were thrown away like trash).

Insert WoW combat always being pointless joke here. :rimshot:

I think it was more because killing those things in MMOs was nothing but a chore: it was not challenging, it was not fun, it served no other purpose to introduce pointless grind and consume player's time. To my mind any encounter that is design around this idea, be it in MMO or an RPG is "trashy".

The encounters that use even weak enemies in an interesting fashion that generates challenge are not trashy. What I mean here is: if the enemy's only purpose is to die by your sword as opposed to become a legit challenge the enemies are trashmobs.

Then again I must admit that I am sick and tired of the old-fashioned formula. Heroes storm the dungeon, and defeat enemies a room at a time, while the rest of meatbags remain clueless as to the fate of their allies next door. That's the shit only very novice DMs do. More experienced ones will prepeare whole "dungeon siege" scenarios whereby enemies band together, set traps and create environments favourable for them to fight against you. You know - retreating from the room when things go awry, ringing alarms so everyone in goddamn Alaska knows you are there, using environmental objects to get the upper hand, and so forth.