Obsidian's Pillars of Eternity [BETA RELEASED, GO TO THE NEW THREAD]

[Murk]

Stun-on-every-hit with no use limit (as weapon effects generally are) is more difficult to balance in a party based game. Make it useful, and there's a big risk of creating an easy power-gaming tactic, where you equip your whole party with stun effects and use them to overwhelm enemies with near perma-stun. Decrease it to balance for stacked stun effects and it becomes useless for people with balanced parties.

It's certainly not impossible to overcome this kind of problem, but you'd need to provide enemies who can counter/resist stun tactics, or only include a handful of stun-capable weapons in the game.

Well, if some weapon types -- like slow swinging low accuracy weapons -- cause a brief delay in enemy attack speeds/movement speeds, I don't see how this is a big issue. I'm not talking full on stun where the enemy can't attack but rather a very brief 'slow' like status.

Anyway, it doesn't necessarily have to be that. The idea is to have weapons do something other than different flavored damage to make your actual weapon choice a real choice, not just "well, piercing won't work here". The idea of piercing/crushing/slashing having different DT penetration is the same as having fire/ice/lighting or red/blue/yellow damage -- yeah it's a rudimentary choice but not one you actually think about, just one you switch to if the dungeon's walls are red or on fire.

 

[Infinitron]

Wearing plate armor is pretty much always going to be a good thing

Just as it was in Baldur's Gate. In the end, it's not a huge disaster.

 

[Excidium]

Wearing plate armor is pretty much always going to be a good thing

Just as it was in Baldur's Gate. In the end, it's not a huge disaster.

You aren't thinking in a Sawyerist way.

 

[Infinitron]

You aren't thinking in a Sawyerist way.

No I'm not. Anyway, like tuluse said, there's still the speed factor, so it's not always strictly better.

 

[Moribund]

Yeah, and I am an Engineer, I analyze graphs and spreadsheets all the fucking time.

Look, nobody said Excel can't be used to plot graphs or make spreadsheets you moron. But if you have to analyze a lot of data and see how the data scales in relation to each other then you graph a function (or use a value table if you are too stupid to create a function), you don't feed the data into a fucking excel table/spreadsheet and try to analyze it from there, only morons liek Josh Sawyer do that.
I emphasize ANALYZE, because that is what Sawyer is trying to do, but lead designer Sawyer is too fucking stupid to do it the right way. Anybody who has visited a 10th grade physics or math class knows this, but the stupid fuck retard lead designer of a $4 million project has no fucking idea on how he is actually supposed to to design his combat system. This idiot is actually trying to do low level design, even though he has no idea what he is doing. This has to be one of the saddest fucking things I have ever seen.

Not to mention that he is trying to design his combat system by using only one type of "generic" damage (like in D&D), even though the combat system he has proposed uses 3 different types (slashing, crushing and piercing) that do not all scale proportionately or inversely proportionately to each other. Anybody who is not a complete moron would instantly realise that he needs more variables to make it work. But not lead retard Josh Sawyer, he just keeps on trying to make it work by fiddle fucking with the numbers and eventually gives up, because he is too stupid to realise that his approach is fundamentally flawed.

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink. What I am trying to say is: You can explain something to a retard, but you can't expect him to understand. And the retardation in this forum is also absolutely abysmal. Not all, but quite a few. When I am in this thread I feel like I am surrounded by Josh Sawyer's little cocksucking retards.

I thought more or less the same but I knew I'd get the usual SOMEONE WHO HAS DISCRIMINATING TASTES AND ACTUALLY ANALYZES WHAT HE HEARS WHAT A SHITPOSTER from the same couple walking vaginas.

But really that he has to analyze in depth says it all, he's not the right man for the job. If you can't do basic maths in your head you have no business designing a computer roleplaying game. I CAN'T SEE IF THESE NUMBERS ADD TO THESE OTHER NUMBERS.

That he does the grazing nonsense shows he doesn't understand random numbers or expected values. Fuck's sake, the most retarded teenagers here think DnD is totally random and mystifying, but how can a grown man who does this for a living be taken aback at the obvious and try to attack imaginary problems?

And it shows he just goes further down the wrong path. Each medieval weapon was for a specific purpose. That's exactly how it should be in an RPG if possible. Like using a spear to keep enemies at bay.

The issue is they DO different things, they don't do the same thing with different numbers.

Which then comes back to why rtwp sucks. You have to throw out 80% of the rules for DnD that make things tactical. But just like VD stirring the same pot of shit and getting the same bad results with skills you have to make something truly different not just play with numbers. Especially when it's obvious you = not so good with numbers, like fell down the matterhorn and hit every rock on the way down not so good.

 

[Roguey]

Yes that's true. And ultimately he'll need to make changes to certain weapon speeds.

He's definitely not doing that as long as armor determines the speed of actions. There are lots ways of making weapons feel different other than speed.

 

[Hormalakh]

Well he's got "fast" and regular speed weapons. The speeds on those are kind of weird, to be honest. I don't understand why a two-handed weapon is faster than a one-handed weapon. (0.9 compared to 0.6).

Ultimately, I do believe his weapons are going to have different speeds. But the speeds are really more for determining DPS than anything else when it comes to balancing the weapons.

 

[Rostere]

Just for starters, I'd like to say that Excel really is a program for very basic mathematical needs. If you are going do to more advanced things, I recommend MATLAB or NumPy/SciPy. What we're talking about here is nothing complicated though.

Yeah, and I am an Engineer, I analyze graphs and spreadsheets all the fucking time.

Bwahaha.

Look, nobody said Excel can't be used to plot graphs or make spreadsheets you moron. But if you have to analyze a lot of data and see how the data scales in relation to each other then you graph a function (or use a value table if you are too stupid to create a function

Here's a link to Wikipedia if you want to know what "function" means. A graph and a value table are both different representations of a function. Thus, if you have created a value table you have already implicitly defined a function.

That he does the grazing nonsense shows he doesn't understand random numbers or expected values. Fuck's sake, the most retarded teenagers here think DnD is totally random and mystifying, but how can a grown man who does this for a living be taken aback at the obvious and try to attack imaginary problems?

I see you've learned what "expected value" means. Do you also happen to know what "variance" means, what it would mean in this context for the gameplay experience, and how the addition of "grazing hit" to "miss","hit" and "critical hit" would affect it?

And it shows he just goes further down the wrong path. Each medieval weapon was for a specific purpose. That's exactly how it should be in an RPG if possible. Like using a spear to keep enemies at bay.

The issue is they DO different things, they don't do the same thing with different numbers.

Well, at least this part is not nonsense.

 

[Kirtai]

So, what evidence do we actually have that he's only using a single spreadsheet to do all of his calculations?

 

[Arkeus]

So, what evidence do we actually have that he's only using a single spreadsheet to do all of his calculations?

The evidence of stop saying things that could get in the way of bickering.

 

[Moribund]

The issue is not that he is using it for analysis but using it at all.

When you grow up and get a job someday (assuming you don't become forever student slacker like typical euroturd) you'll know what the guys who think excel is nifty are like. It's the Lumbergs of the world, basically. Your moronic project manager who wants your TPS reports logged in so he can run the numbers.

Do you think there's math or computer guys using excel? They don't need that shit and look down upon the pathetic fools who do (as you are witnessing here).

The other issue is it shows it's likely he's focused on needless complexity, you know like three different damage types and, well, anything he's ever said ever.

 

[Roguey]

Well he's got "fast" and regular speed weapons. The speeds on those are kind of weird, to be honest. I don't understand why a two-handed weapon is faster than a one-handed weapon. (0.9 compared to 0.6).

Ultimately, I do believe his weapons are going to have different speeds. But the speeds are really more for determining DPS than anything else when it comes to balancing the weapons.

Oh I misunderstood what you were saying. To be honest I don't even remember what my thought process was.

N E ways two handers aren't faster.

Rate = Attack rate, though if it says DWF = 2, that means they can strike at twice the rate. In practice, two "fast" weapons will attack three times for every two times a pair of non-fast weapons attack, and three times for every one that a 2H weapon attacks. 3:2:1.

It may have .9 but it only has a DWF of 1, whereas one-handers have a DWF of 2 like fast weapons.
Edit: And actually reading more, I see it's about dual-wielding durrrrrrr. So I guess they are faster but that's so they can be competitive against dual-wielded fast/one-handed weapons.

 

[Mother Russia]

Any word on whether they are redesigning Paladins to NOT be shit, as they were in their earlier concept (team players, weak against solo enemies)

It should be the other way around. Fighters should handle trash mobs, Pally's should go one on one with bosses.

 

[Roguey]

No, paladins have their role and they're going to fill it.

Updated my Josh Sawyer quotes.sig (was getting too big so Lesi's quote had to go, sorry Wanni, RPG stuffs are more forum-relevant). I also now believe I understand why he refuses to touch Dragon Age: http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/39...-in-fallouts-special-game-system/#entry526647

I really disliked most of the CNPCs, I really disliked being forced to go find Imoen, I really disliked the style of dialogue, and I really disliked being flooded with a million quests by every shmoe on the streets of Athkatla. Basically, there wasn't a whole lot I did like about it.

Looks like he believes David Gaider has a fundamentally flawed understanding of writing (in addition to Bioware's fundamentally flawed understanding of how to create RPG systems). So funny that he has to make a successor to a series of games he hates.

 

[Infinitron]

You should point out that post is from 2006.

 

[Lancehead]

No, paladins have their role and they're going to fill it.

Updated my Josh Sawyer quotes.sig (was getting too big so Lesi's quote had to go, sorry Wanni, RPG stuffs are more forum-relevant). I also now believe I understand why he refuses to touch Dragon Age: http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/39...-in-fallouts-special-game-system/#entry526647

I really disliked most of the CNPCs, I really disliked being forced to go find Imoen, I really disliked the style of dialogue, and I really disliked being flooded with a million quests by every shmoe on the streets of Athkatla. Basically, there wasn't a whole lot I did like about it.

Looks like he believes David Gaider has a fundamentally flawed understanding of writing (in addition to Bioware's fundamentally flawed understanding of how to create RPG systems). So funny that he has to make a successor to a series of games he hates.

I hope he has an understanding of irony of this situation.

But, choke-full of content is one of the good things about BG2.

 

[Roguey]

J-Saw's already said P:E is going to be in-between BG and BG2 when it comes to content density. Very Goldilocks: not too empty, not too dense.

 

[suejak]

Of course, jam-packed with random content for its own sake is one of the bad things about BG2.

 

[~RAGING BONER~]

a game that supposedly will boast 2 large sized cities and one of the largest dungeons in modern times better damn well have as much content as BG2 which only had 1 big city...
else that shit is gonna feel empty as fuck.

 

[tuluse]

Content density is actually something I expect Obsidian to nail. F:NV was very good in this regard.

 

[Moribund]

No, paladins have their role and they're going to fill it.

Updated my Josh Sawyer quotes.sig (was getting too big so Lesi's quote had to go, sorry Wanni, RPG stuffs are more forum-relevant). I also now believe I understand why he refuses to touch Dragon Age: http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/39...-in-fallouts-special-game-system/#entry526647


Looks like he believes David Gaider has a fundamentally flawed understanding of writing (in addition to Bioware's fundamentally flawed understanding of how to create RPG systems). So funny that he has to make a successor to a series of games he hates.

Which I guess is why NWN 2 was so bad. Nothing to do but a really boring main plot. Nothing to do in IWD that wasn't prescripted nonsense that was "relavent" to the main plot. Like playing a game on rails.

Even without the rails when you are spoon fed all the content and it has to be super srz then it still feels like you have zero control. So far that's every obshitian game I played, you don't feel like you are playing it. I skipped fallout NV but it looked awful in spite of a few fanboys raving.

 

[Roguey]

NWN2 wasn't his and neither was IWD. He actually did area design work for the latter, but it was Chris Parker's dungeon crawl project with a one year development cycle and never intended to be a RPG with freedom and crap.

 

[Bony]

o funny that he has to make a successor to a series of games he hates

This is the driving factor and success of Obsidian and Codex, hate.

 

[BlitzKitchen]

No, paladins have their role and they're going to fill it.

Updated my Josh Sawyer quotes.sig (was getting too big so Lesi's quote had to go, sorry Wanni, RPG stuffs are more forum-relevant). I also now believe I understand why he refuses to touch Dragon Age: http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/39...-in-fallouts-special-game-system/#entry526647

I really disliked most of the CNPCs, I really disliked being forced to go find Imoen, I really disliked the style of dialogue, and I really disliked being flooded with a million quests by every shmoe on the streets of Athkatla. Basically, there wasn't a whole lot I did like about it.

Looks like he believes David Gaider has a fundamentally flawed understanding of writing (in addition to Bioware's fundamentally flawed understanding of how to create RPG systems). So funny that he has to make a successor to a series of games he hates.

This is a good sign. Though honestly, are there many CRPGs that don't force you to end up at a singularity in the main quest? But that in itself isn't a problem. The problem is motivating the player to reach that singularity.

 

[Spectacle]

How come this thread has 5 times as many posts as the Wasteland 2 thread?