Obsidian's Pillars of Eternity [BETA RELEASED, GO TO THE NEW THREAD]

[LeStryfe79]

I'm guessing full party creation will happen pretty early in P:E. At most I figure at the 25% mark. I can live with that. It's a definite incline over most modern games.

 

[zeitgeist]

I'm guessing full party creation will happen pretty early in P:E. At most I figure at the 25% mark. I can live with that. It's a definite incline over most modern games.

Let's say it really is available only after 25% of the game (which I understand is speculation). What was the first 25% of the game then? An extended tutorial? A "get to know the characters" expository portion that could've been handled in the opening cutscene or through regular dialogue? Just plain filler? Should it be skipped on a second playthrough (if there even is one)? If not, if it's actually an integral part of the game that isn't exactly the same every time you play it, why can't you play it with your own party?

Full party creation should happen a few seconds after you click on "new game".

 

[Grunker]

Inb4 Roguey and Infinitron explain that Sawyer has deep thoughts on how a party game for the first 25% of the game will handle tactical challenges and interesting gameplay by not giving you a full party.

 

[Shadenuat]

Let's say it really is available only after 25% of the game (which I understand is speculation). What was the first 25% of the game then?

Tarant.

 

[Black]

I wish.

 

[Rake]

He said that the early game will be balanced around a smaller party, so with a full party the first part will be too easy regardless of difficulty.
For more info ask Roguey him on formspring

 

[tuluse]

I don't know why you guys are surprised. Slowly expanding your party over time is classic Tim Cain design

 

[Infinitron]

Inb4 Roguey and Infinitron explain that Sawyer has deep thoughts on how a party game for the first 25% of the game will handle tactical challenges and interesting gameplay by not giving you a full party.

What tuluse said.

 

[Grunker]

Nice diversion away from the question of whether it is a good decision in a game like this or not.

 

[tuluse]

Nice diversion away from the question of whether it is a good decision in a game like this or not.

Well considering the 25% is just a made up number, I don't think we can have an intelligent conversation about it.

I've enjoyed many games where you build up a party rather than starting with a full one, I know that.

 

[almondblight]

Yeah, I'm not sure I understand what the problem is with starting with one character and being given more slots as you progress, particularly if the game is balanced around that.

 

[Infinitron]

Nice diversion away from the question of whether it is a good decision in a game like this or not.

Does it have to be good or bad?

Some games start you off with a weaker and simpler party and let you expand it gradually, while others give you the full party almost immediately. I can't say I've ever seen anybody claim that one is better than the other.

The former approach has its strengths. Besides making the game easier to learn, it also functions as an additional progression mechanism - each additional party member you gain over the course of the game is a serious boost in power, much like a level-up or an awesome piece of loot.

Another thing is that early game enemies in CRPGs are often quite simple and limiting the party at that stage prevents the player from utilizing "Zerg" tactics on them.

This approach also makes the game more diverse overall. If you can create a full party right away, that's the only way you'll play the game. When the party gradually expands, you get to experience the game with a variety of of party sizes, each of which may call for a different set of tactics.

 

[waywardOne]

"Portfolios" for gods is huge derp and sickens me.

 

[Jaesun]

"Portfolios" for gods is huge derp and sickens me.

Why?

 

[Lord Andre]

If I remember correctly, full party creation was not in the original design of the game but added later, during kickstarter, as a nice gesture towards a particular crowd. Namely some guys on the codex. Common courtesy would dictate not to bitch about it.

 

[SwiftCrack]

"Portfolios" for gods is huge derp and sickens me.

What would be a better denominator? School?

 

[Rake]

Also it forces you to make decisions. If you have your "ideal" party in mind, but you start the game alone and in area number 2 you get 2 party slots, which members you will make first? Another fighter? A mage? Do you really want to be left without a rogue? It adds a strategic consideration so (in Sawyer's mind at least) is the best solution

 

[Harg Harfardarssen]

Also wasn't starting with less than a full party kind of common in the IE games? I think it was only the Icewind Dales that allowed a full party from the beginning.

 

[Jaesun]

Baldur's Gate is the basic focus of PE, so having the party grow larger as you explore more is what I am expecting.

 

[Excidium]

I give it a week before people mod it in anyway.

 

[Roguey]

Inb4 Roguey and Infinitron explain that Sawyer has deep thoughts on how a party game for the first 25% of the game will handle tactical challenges and interesting gameplay by not giving you a full party.

I think it's funny how someone throws out a completely made-up bullshit number like "25%" and you immediately assume it's true.

 

[Infinitron]

Baldur's Gate is the basic focus of PE, so having the party grow larger as you explore more is what I am expecting.

Well, you could gather up the full six man party in BG fairly quickly. Imoen, Xzar and Monty, Khalid and Jaheira at the Friendly Arm, and there you go.

I don't think it'll be quite as quick in Eternity.

 

[Grunker]

Baldur's Gate is the basic focus of PE, so having the party grow larger as you explore more is what I am expecting.

In Baldur's Gate the a party consisting of some variation of Imoen, Minsc, Dynaheir, Jaheira, Khalid, Xan or Montaron is with you inside of half an hour or so.

Inb4 Roguey and Infinitron explain that Sawyer has deep thoughts on how a party game for the first 25% of the game will handle tactical challenges and interesting gameplay by not giving you a full party.

I think it's funny how someone throws out a completely made-up bullshit number like "25%" and you immediately assume it's true.

I didn't assume it's true. We were having a debate on what it would mean for the game if it was. Your diversions were to be expected though.

 

[Dhralei]

I like building up the team over time. That gives me the time to learn what each party member is best at and how they play without feeling overwhelmed at suddenly having to control 5-6 members at the same time. Full party creation at the very beginning usually feels like a shortcut to me.

 

[Grunker]

Nice diversion away from the question of whether it is a good decision in a game like this or not.

Does it have to be good or bad?

Some games start you off with a weaker and simpler party and let you expand it gradually, while others give you the full party almost immediately. I can't say I've ever seen anybody claim that one is better than the other.

The former approach has its strengths. Besides making the game easier to learn, it also functions as an additional progression mechanism - each additional party member you gain over the course of the game is a serious boost in power, much like a level-up or an awesome piece of loot.

Another thing is that early game enemies in CRPGs are often quite simple and limiting the party at that stage prevents the player from utilizing "Zerg" tactics on them.

This approach also makes the game more diverse overall. If you can create a full party right away, that's the only way you'll play the game. When the party gradually expands, you get to experience the game with a variety of of party sizes, each of which may call for a different set of tactics.

The exact excuse I was waiting for

The "meat" of a six-member party-game is combat involving six party members. If I'm only playing that for 75% of the time, the first 25% feels completely like an expanded tutorial. I can't begin to describe how much I detest running around with half party-size waiting for the actual game to start.