Obsidian's Pillars of Eternity [BETA RELEASED, GO TO THE NEW THREAD]

[Infinitron]

After 500 pages of mechanics, I was wondering about the implications of Obsidian owning a IP. People really like Avellone because he subverts tenets of settings that grew tired over the years, so I wonder if that makes him either the best or the worst writer to have a IP. The best because it will take a while for a setting handled by Avellone to grow stale, worst because now he might just not subvert things as much as before - those ideas were his, after all.

Well, he can still subvert the tenets of high fantasy as a genre.

 

[Delterius]

After 500 pages of mechanics, I was wondering about the implications of Obsidian owning a IP. People really like Avellone because he subverts tenets of settings that grew tired over the years, so I wonder if that makes him either the best or the worst writer to have a IP. The best because it will take a while for a setting handled by Avellone to grow stale, worst because now he might just not subvert things as much as before - those ideas were his, after all.

Well, he can still subvert the tenets of high fantasy as a genre.

Which is likely already being done through the estabilishment of the Setting as a whole. Once that's out of the way, I wonder if the writers at Obsidian won't turn to treasuring their own ideas, thereby creating new tropes. One thing is to subvert a new Setting every 2 years, another is to wander through a never-ending spiral of deconstruction (which, inevitably, leads down).

 

[hiver]

Is he actually doing serious writing for PE? Or is he giving pantomime instructions to animators?

I'm a reductionist. The derp of backstabbing/sneak-attack isn't how rogues do it, but that they do it at all. Clearly it's a martial concept which should be solely in the warrior's repetoire. Backstabbing is a holdover from OD&D days when every character was assumed to be 'good' and honorable tactics were the norm. You're trying to tell me there's some aspect of physical combat that not only are rogues better at than warriors, but that it's actually forbidden to warriors? Give me a fucking break. It's just another step in the decline of RPGs, albeit an early and now-accepted one.

'Backstab' should be what every character does when attacking enemy that can't defend themselves from this attack (which is the norm when the enemy is facing away from you).

Rogues shouldn't backstab a lot because it's some awesome ability exclusive to those following the shadowed path of roguery, they should backstab a lot because:

a) stealth and subterfuge allow them to put themselves in position where they can attack someone without them seeing it coming
b) It's pretty much the only way for them to do something of use during actual combat.

Every other class (including mages) should backstab too, they should just get less opportunities to do so (debatable with mages who can cast stuff that paralyses, immobilizes or makes the target fall asleep).

Thats a pretty good idea, actually. Monks and priests too. (priests would have to find another priest to confess)
Father, i have sinned today.
- what have you done father?
I backstabbed a guy, father. Several times. Couldnt get a critical...
- Ten hail Marys. And 10 Holy fathers.
But, the criticals...
Pray to our holy father, father. Pray for a critical and our Lord will provide!

Leter on in dormitory:
Dear lord... I am in doubt....kidneys or a liver?


Paladins would of course become fallen so no go on that account.

hey... can a Paladin give an absolution?
Why not?
Can a priest absolve a fallen Paladin?

Someone better send an email to Vatican and check.
Prosper! get on it!

 

[almondblight]

About health regen, i´m currently playing Avadon from spiderweb games (btw, fucking love the game and the writing), and it has a somewhat limited health/stamina regen system and still manage to have nice encounter design.

It also worked just fine with the AoD combat demo. In fact, many here complained about the combat demo being too difficult, even with health regenerating between encounters. But a lot of codexers suck at logic.

 

[Excidium]

About health regen, i´m currently playing Avadon from spiderweb games (btw, fucking love the game and the writing), and it has a somewhat limited health/stamina regen system and still manage to have nice encounter design.

It also worked just fine with the AoD combat demo. In fact, many here complained about the combat demo being too difficult, even with health regenerating between encounters. But a lot of codexers suck at logic.

Health regenerated because the point of the demo was testing the combat system on each individual arena fight...In an actual RPG you don't have individual encounters, you have a series of encounters throughout the dungeon or whatever. Managing your resources is part of the challenge and health regen trivializes that a lot.

 

[Ulminati]

"Oh gee, the PE thread is 555 pages. I guess I should actually go check it out"

*click*

*nekkid pic of Josh seducing Roguey*

"Aaaaaaand... I'm done."

 

[Infinitron]

http://www.formspring.me/GZiets/q/424654045190315348

Do creatures have souls in PE, or is it reserved to sentient creatures?

I don’t think that question has been formally decided yet. Personally, I'd guess that they do, though the souls of animals, vermin, etc. would be weaker than those of sentient beings.

 

[Excidium]

http://www.formspring.me/GZiets/q/424654045190315348

Do creatures have souls in PE, or is it reserved to sentient creatures?

I don’t think that question has been formally decided yet. Personally, I'd guess that they do, though the souls of animals, vermin, etc. would be weaker than those of sentient beings.

Just like in The Elder Scrolls

 

[almondblight]

Health regenerated because the point of the demo was testing the combat system on each individual arena fight...In an actual RPG you don't have individual encounters, you have a series of encounters throughout the dungeon or whatever. Managing your resources is part of the challenge and health regen trivializes that a lot.

Well, if you had full regeneration between fights then, yes, you would have individual encounters. The combat demo was seen by many as more difficult than most RPG's and it had full regeneration. Likewise, when people talk about difficult fights in BG2, you never here them talk about a "managing your resources" slog - it's always fights against Firkraag or Kangaxx, fights that you go into fully rested. The problem with managing your resources is that if you do a bit better than the designers expected, fights get progressively easier (you're going in with more health/spells/items than they expected, and you leave with even more health/spells/items, etc.).

 

[Comrade Goby]

So that Jew MCA did lie about streaming Arcanum!

???

 

[BobtheTree]

*coughs*

 

[Comrade Goby]

*coughs*

Still won't believe it until I see it with mine own eyes

 

[DragoFireheart]

*coughs*

Still won't believe it until I see it with mine own eyes

Pretty much. He needs to actually beat the game and not get bored of the combat system.

 

[Blaine]

Arcanum's combat system is unplayable. It can be endured, but "play" indicates engaging with the game in an enjoyable and recreational manner, rather than resigning oneself to profound suffering and meaningless drudgery.

I'm waiting for a mod that instantly resolves combat by simply fragging the enemies into gibbets. All challenge (such as it is) will be removed, but combat will resolve much more quickly and mercifully, while the death animations will provide a small measure of entertainment which the original system entirely lacked.

 

[Excidium]

Arcanum's combat system is unplayable. It can be endured, but "play" indicates engaging with the game in an enjoyable and recreational manner, rather than resigning oneself to profound suffering and meaningless drudgery.

I'm waiting for a mod that instantly resolves combat by simply fragging the enemies into gibbets. All challenge (such as it is) will be removed, but combat will resolve much more quickly and mercifully, while the death animations will provide a small measure of entertainment which the original system entirely lacked.

Just play a wizard. Spam Stun, Harm or summon monsters that steamroll the game for you.

 

[Murk]

Meh. Archer + pyrotechnic bow. You won't even need armor.

 

[Shadenuat]

Arcanum's combat system is unplayable. It can be endured, but "play" indicates engaging with the game in an enjoyable and recreational manner, rather than resigning oneself to profound suffering and meaningless drudgery.

That's highly exaggerated. Arcanum combat may be very unbalanced, but you can still engage enemies in many different ways, use very complex sets of abilities and it is almost as fun as Fallout when it comes to messy animations.
What, you just die on magma golem and drop the game?

I'm waiting for a mod that instantly resolves combat by simply fragging the enemies into gibbets.

 

[Grunker]

There is no difference between an awesome-button and extremely broken, tedious combat except the latter is slower.

Arcanum's combat is one of the most annoying, insipid constructions in RPG history, so no, Blaine is not exagerrating. Accusing him of being Hepler is incredibly retarded considering his actual problem with the game is that the combat system is terrible compared to better RPGs.

 

[Shadenuat]

How is Arcanum tedious, please amuse me. But I want to hear something else than "I hate Black Mountain clan dungeon" and "You can just spam harm".
Because clearly, I'm not getting something. When I played Arcanum, and I played a lot of it, I never really felt the need to drop the game if I could't have an instaggibing button. There are so many ways you can make Arcanum experience a breeze, not to mention avoiding combat alltogether, but people seem to continue being lazy assholes about it and posting their obligatory revelations how they can't, just can't suffer through a simulationist, free-roaming, skill-heavy game because their technologist with a flintlock has been killed by a pack of wolves in the beginning, or they break a sword hitting a stone golem.
Give me a fucking break.

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

 

[Grunker]

Wow.

You even instantly assume that "tedious" for some reason means "too difficult." One of the worst things about my playthrough was how mindnumbingly boring the combat was because it was too easy. My first experience with Arcanum was little spam-clicking like in a hysterically bad Action RPG. My mage wasn't casting cool spells, he was just doing busy-work whenever combat began. You even spotlight yourself how fucking idiotic and unbalanced the game is by pointing out how certain options in the character system can make combat a breeze and others make it stupidly difficult.

 

[Shadenuat]

No, I assume that "tedious" means "too goddamn long" and "too much of it". And that's not the issue with the game, because I know that combat in Arcanum is very fast (particularly in real time) and easy to avoid, and most encounters with retarded amount of cannon fodder (Wheel Clan, Ashburry Cemetery, Ashburry Castle, Tarant Sewers, ect.) are optional. So I don't buy the argument that one must "suffer" through Arcanum and whip himself to get through this terribly "boring" game.
Yeah, can be very easy, yeah, can be suddenly hard sometimes. It never made my Arcanum experience any bad. People constantly walking away from that goddamn amazing and fun game with chin high and vault dweller epicness "because harm" bother me.

 

[Blaine]

I've got to compliment you on your Hamburger Helper comparison, Shadenuat—if you're going to defame someone, you might as well go for the gusto. I detest that cow, and you almost got my goat.

Anyway, Grunker already said it: The problem with Arcanum's combat isn't its difficulty, unless you count the gross imbalances, but that's tangential. I greatly enjoy challenging difficulty and long, drawn-out combat in my cRPGs, but only if it's not shit.

As for taking the "combat-avoiding diplomat" approach, yeah, I'm aware of the option. Have fun not being able to explore half the God damned game, because you can't talk your way past everything.

 

[Shadenuat]

I've got to compliment you on your Hamburger Helper comparison, @Shadenaut—if you're going to defame someone, you might as well go for the gusto.

This is not the goal.
It just that
"Oh my, MCA now has to suffer through Troika classics and not get bored" bothers me greatly. Not just the Codex, but the people at Obsidian's who never FINISHED THE GAME but their KNOWLEDGE OF ARCANUM IS GREAT to criticize it for things which are not even there or get averted further in the game.

As for taking the "combat-avoiding diplomat" approach, yeah, I'm aware of the option. Have fun not being able to explore half the God damned game, because you can't talk your way past everything.

How does combat being very easy takes away from exploration?

Arcanum is not Diablo. Unless you absolutely want dat hot randomized chest with minor arcane plate, few schematics and one interesting diary, you don't have to go through dozens of levels of multileveled dungeons. It's juice is in it's urban environments and detective storyline.

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

There's tons of combat in Arcanum, definitely more than "detectiveness" and urban environments are filled with combat as well. It takes a lot away from the game because it's fucking huge part of it