Obsidian's Pillars of Eternity [BETA RELEASED, GO TO THE NEW THREAD]

[Osvir]

Theoretically/Presumably thus far, the hit/miss mechanic in P:E looks like something like this:

- Critical Miss
- Graze
- Hit
- Critical Hit

It is still a "no miss mechanic", as originally presented by Sawyer. In short: When you "Miss" an enemy, it would equal a "Critical Miss".

 

[mastroego]

That isn't entirely true, though.
You can face a wizard with wizardry, but you also have Inquisitors, Carsomyr, The Staff of Magi... A thief with Detect Illusions could dispel a lot of things, too.
There were plenty of options.. not all obvious, but then again high level wizards are supposed to be POWERFUL.

I'll miss that, I know it already.

I think you will miss it, Project Eternity is looking to be weak tea so far. Some things they've said about how they're implementing magic and damage made me shake my head a little...

But I agree totally. In AD&D2 you're supposed to dread high-level arcane spellcasters. It is written in the rules and in the lorethat wizards are someone you don't fuck with.
You're right that BG2 does give you some alternatives to taking them on (most of them are sort of cheap or clumsy), but by and large, you have to engage them on their own terms, IOW, with your own wizards. Dunno why people have a problem with the concept but I hope they don't experience the airtightness of SCS2 Ascension mages, their head would cave in on itself.

Thanx for your answer, that's exactly how I feel.
Mages in BG2 are awesome, and with SCS2 they're beyond that.
Just when you think you've finally beaten them, a Spell Trigger fires and you're screaming for help again. Things *my* mages used to do in my previous walkthroughs...
This alone proves that they work the way mages are meant too, and it's pure brilliance.

Well, we'll always have modded BG2 at least.
I guess the lightning won't strike twice.

 

[Arkeus]

The real funny thing about this discussion is that the people retards who justified Cooldowns and regens are the same people retards who are now saying that P:E will be good because it lacks them. Wtf.

Regen/Cooldowns have their places in some games. Not all games must be done the same way after all, and actionrpg or even dungeon crawlers like Might&Magic can benefit from those.

However, us retards were responding to "this is like DA:O". Pointing out the differences IS responding to the question, and shiftign the goalpost doesn't change that.

 

[Osvir]

The real funny thing about this discussion is that the people retards who justified Cooldowns and regens are the same people retards who are now saying that P:E will be good because it lacks them. Wtf.

People justify Project: Eternity.

Honestly, in my personal opinion (if 1 turn is 10 seconds):
P:E with cooldowns? Sure, heck, why not. Can be done. Casting is instant, 30 second cooldown. "Hey, that's like League of Legends!"
P:E without cooldowns? Sure, heck, why not. Can be done. Channeling the spell takes 3 turns, then it casts instantly. "Hey, that's like Baldur's Gate!"

As for Memorizing spells by resting; some spells might have it, some might not, some spells might be "Once a day" as well, some spells might require ritualistic means (mediums).

This is what I think it'll somewhat look like in the finished product:
- Low-Level spells when Low-Level Wizard, tactical.
- Low-Level spells when Mid-Level Wizard, "Pew pew" (can burn out)
- Low-Level spells when High-Level Wizard, "Pew pew pew pew" (near infinite/rarely burns out in a short fight)

- Mid-Level spells when Low-Level Wizard, very tactical
- Mid-Level spells when Mid-Level Wizard, tactical
- Mid-Level spells when High-Level Wizard, "Pew pew" (can burn out)

- High-Level spells when Low-Level Wizard, very very tactical (if even available. Most likely "Can't use these yet")
- High-Level spells when Mid-Level Wizard, very tactical
- High-Level spells when High-Level Wizard, tactical

- Epic- or Legendary-Level Spells when High-Level Wizard, very very very tactical/once a day/rituals required

"Left" or "Right", what does it matter? What's important (in my opinion) is to have a consistent, intelligent, entertaining, tactical & challenging system.

On cooldowns: So if P:E would have, against all odds, simply the word "Cooldown" anywhere in the game (in a serious "in mechanics" type of way) I think some people would rage-quit the game, run to the Codex and be retarded brofist hunters and possibly say something like: "GASP! The word cooldown is in the game! It must be bad!"*.

* Subject to change.

 

[J_C]

Anyone need more proof about 2013 newfags being retards?

Fuck off and die. And take Jaesun with you.

Edit: I mean - can you be more specific ? I need specifics.

Truth hurts doesn't it?

 

[Infinitron]

Don't you kids have anything better to do besides flinging shit at each other in this thread?

 

[Brayko]

I just hope that it's a magic system that can utilize RTwP well, unlike ADnD.

 

[J_C]

Don't you kids have anything better to do besides flinging shit at each other in this thread?

On the Codex? I don't think so.

 

[Osvir]

Hey Shrek.

Retard: Yes. Order: No.

Aren't you one of the people who had lots of constructive stuff to say but abandoned the Obsidian forums?

 

[Osvir]

Alright, I respect that. I'm probably not going to invest much time outside "here" (this thread). I've just recently discovered the Golden Age of RPGs, and I guess the only thing I can say is:

 

[Duraframe300]

The real funny thing about this discussion is that the people retards who justified Cooldowns and regens are the same people retards who are now saying that P:E will be good because it lacks them. Wtf.

Isn't it still nearly the same thing? At least what you argued are cooldowns?

After all, P:E never had classic cooldowns to begin with.

Or did P:E's system change dramatically while I wasn't looking?

 

[Duraframe300]

That stuff was the first thing he said when he explained related stuff about P:E though?

What was it before?

 

[Osvir]

Simplified, the story goes something like this:

1. Obsidian: "Cooldowns"
2. Forums: "RAGE!!"+feedback/ideas/speculation/suggestion
3. Obsidian: "Let us clarify"
4. Forums: "Oh"

Hm...

 

[Brayko]

So uh, sounds like they actually listen to feedback? Good? I quit the Obsidian boards a long time ago, they were too dead before PE and after PE (announcement/Kickstarter) they got way too hectic.

 

[Rivmusique]

P:E without cooldowns? Sure, heck, why not. Can be done. Channeling the spell takes 3 turns, then it casts instantly. "Hey, that's like Baldur's Gate!"

But that isn't like Baldur's Gate. As far as I know, nothing took more than 1 round (6 seconds) to cast, and a character could only cast 1 spell a round (unless Alacritied). So it effectively had a global cool down after every cast while you waited for the characters round to end.

Has there been anything about how P:E will deal with cast-times/breaks? Because it doesn't have rounds right? So will it just let you cast the <1 second spells (like Magic Missile or equivalent) back-to-back until you run out of memorised?

 

[Roguey]

Simplified, the story goes something like this:

1. Obsidian: "Cooldowns/health regen"
2. Forums: "Lot of reasonable causes why that is utterly dumb"
3. Obsidian: "Let us remove them"
4. Forums: "Oh"

Hm...

Augmented.

Bullshitz. A more nearly accruate retelling:

Sawyer: Guize combat states are a tricky thing and I'm not familiar with the capabilities of the Unity engine so we're going to have stamina regen slowly during combat and low-level spells come back after a cooldown period that should last for the duration of a battle and end before the next one.
Other people: Bawwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww
Sawyer: Oh hey, turns out the combat states are working fine. Stamina and spells come back after combat ends.

 

[sea]

Why would something like combat states be impossible with Unity? Does he think that one of the most versatile engines in common use today is not capable of a simple variable check to see if the player is in combat or not? Can't you just like, put a check in the main game loop that sees if there are any hostile enemies within X distance of the player, and depending on the result, start or end combat?

 

[Sensuki]

Pretty sure he's joking.

 

[imweasel]

Pretty sure he's joking.

If he wasn't joking, then he is a retard.

Somehow I doubt that he was joking though.

Health regen still outside of combat.

How long does it take to fully heal outside of combat ATM?

 

[Arkeus]

How long does it take to fully heal outside of combat ATM?

Regen rate of stamina are unknown (regen rate of health is nil and there are no spell nor potions to heal it).

 

[Sensuki]

I think at the moment "Stamina heals quickly outside combat". That's about all the info we have.

 

[almondblight]

The real funny thing about this discussion is that the people retards who justified Cooldowns and regens are the same people retards who are now saying that P:E will be good because it lacks them. Wtf.

Eh, I don't see anything inherently wrong with cooldowns (worked fine in Dungeons of Dredmor) and regeneration (worked fine in the AoD combat demo) and I don't think the lack of them (nor the inclusion of them) is going to make P:E good.

 

[tuluse]

Why would something like combat states be impossible with Unity? Does he think that one of the most versatile engines in common use today is not capable of a simple variable check to see if the player is in combat or not? Can't you just like, put a check in the main game loop that sees if there are any hostile enemies within X distance of the player, and depending on the result, start or end combat?

Sawyer didn't say anything specifically about Unity, but he did say combat states can be tricky and he wanted to avoid situations were players could cheese their way into "ending" combat to regen their spells instantly.

 

[imweasel]

Sawyer didn't say anything specifically about Unity, but he did say combat states can be tricky

Well, they are using unity. So he must have been talking about unity.

and he wanted to avoid situations were players could cheese their way into "ending" combat to regen their spells instantly.

You mean bugs? Yeah, I can imagine that Sawyer might be worried about that considering Obsidian's track record in regards to bugs.

 

[Osvir]

I think at the moment "Stamina heals quickly outside combat". That's about all the info we have.

^This & Update #24 for more information. Speculation from this point: Looks like "Health regeneration" isn't passive in any way at all, neither does it seem like you have any form of "Potions of Healing" or "Cure Light Wounds" spells to spend.