Obsidian's Pillars of Eternity [BETA RELEASED, GO TO THE NEW THREAD]

[Brayko]

yet he states that most other RPG designers have no fucking idea what they are doing.

Considering some of the "RPG's" out there I'd say he's about right.

 

[Delterius]

They might even have a lore reason behind it, if you can have a bag of holding in Dungeons and Dragons I don't see why they can't explain it as something similar here if needed.

Better yet, they could just call the stash a beast of burden that doesn't appear on the screen. It would be just as abstract but at least it would make sense. However, it appears Sawyer specifically doesn't want the 'stash' to be accessible, even though that should be irrelevant. The sort of thing the player is going to send there are useless vendor trash anyway.

Thing is, we don't know how much "useless vendor trash" this game will even have. Baldur's Gate and its ilk constantly bombarded with you miscellaneous gemstones, jewelry, scrolls and potions, but PE might be a different sort of game in that respect.

Point is, there will be things you'll loot for the sake of looting, meaning that they are meant for selling. They might not be someone's burned trousers or a cheap gem, but they aren't meant for keeping. Such things could even be useful gadgets, but they are rendered useless in one way or another. Either because you can't use them due to builds or because old gadgets grow useless over time.

If there weren't things to loot for the sake of looting, Sawyer wouldn't bother to implement the stash in the first place.

 

[Infinitron]

If there weren't things to loot for the sake of looting, Sawyer wouldn't bother to implement the stash in the first place.

I'm not sure they know yet just how much loot the game will have. Josh strikes me as the type of designer who would strive to make an "item light" game where most of the loot you'll find is from quest rewards and major treasure locations, not randomly scattered stuff. We'll see, though.

 

[Cosmo]

He is also an egotisitical hypocrite who thinks that he is the motherfucking RPG design Messiah. He has never proven himself as a low level designer, yet he states that most other RPG designers have no fucking idea what they are doing.
BTW: He generally criticizes other designers for implementing bad RPG elements in their games, yet he loves Shitrim, which is also not only ironic but quite hilarious.

As convincing as a homeless drunkard, sluring incomprehensible rants and hurling insults at random passers-by...

 

[Lancehead]

If there weren't things to loot for the sake of looting, Sawyer wouldn't bother to implement the stash in the first place.

I'm not sure they know yet just how much loot the game will have. Josh strikes me as the type of designer who would strive to make an "item light" game where most of the loot you'll find is from quest rewards and major treasure locations, not randomly scattered stuff. We'll see, though.

Isn't the game going to make enemies drop their items after killed? That could make for a lot of "vendor trash".

 

[Brayko]

I honestly hope every fork and pebble isn't something you can "loot". They need to look a things from a looters point of view, not someone with area-stripping OCD. Gems, jewelry, gold candlesticks, etc. Gives it more charm.

 

[Infinitron]

Isn't the game going to make enemies drop their items after killed? That could make for a lot of "vendor trash"

Yeah, enemy equipment might end up being a large portion of the loot. Short swords and leather armors galore!

 

[Roguey]

They might even have a lore reason behind it, if you can have a bag of holding in Dungeons and Dragons I don't see why they can't explain it as something similar here if needed.

He said they're not going to waste their time coming up with a lore explanation.

 

[Delterius]

If there weren't things to loot for the sake of looting, Sawyer wouldn't bother to implement the stash in the first place.

I'm not sure they know yet just how much loot the game will have. Josh strikes me as the type of designer who would strive to make an "item light" game where most of the loot you'll find is from quest rewards and major treasure locations, not randomly scattered stuff. We'll see, though.

I'm not saying that Sawyer will repeat the item-pocalypse that was NwN2. But I don't think you're facing the facts. He is, after all, taking into consideration the primal nature of loot hording and, as such, he's supporting it from the get-go. I'm expecting as much vendor trash as BG2, really. If so, I'd say that we don't really need much more inventory slots than what the IE games had, what those games cried for were UI improvements. I hated slogging through inventory management in BG2 because I couldn't, say, access everyone's inventory in a single window.

By the way, I call it 'vendor thrash' but the term isn't meant to be pejorative. I think looting is important, its part of exploration and of the expectedly broken economy of adventuring. RPGs have vendor trash in one way or another. The key is wether the vendor trash and the actual loot are interesting or not.

Looting plain daggers and arrows or someone's burned trousers isn't as interesting as jewelry and magical scrolls (that you won't bother to use for one reason for another). Bonus points if the 'vendor trash' is some sort of random valuable that has some history to it. And worse of all is if you don't actually want to keep anything with you beyond what covers your body.

Once these things are considered and provided a good, quick and functional UI, then I don't think troves of loot is a bad thing at all. But really, there'll be troves of loot on P:E. At least as much as are necessary to fill every character's inventory and more.

I honestly hope every fork and pebble isn't something you can "loot". They need to look a things from a looters point of view, not someone with area-stripping OCD. Gems, jewelry, gold candlesticks, etc. Gives it more charm.

Why not both*? That characters dropped everything they had, not just what the devs want you to see, adds a lot to world building and 'immershiun'. If people want to carry dull swords around for two gold pieces all the way to the far way inn, let them.

*emphasys added because I hope to God the Stash doesn't become a excuse not to add charm to vendor thrash.

 

[Brayko]

That's when the argument for limited or limitless inventory space comes in. If it's limited keep lootable items worthwhile, if limitless, loot someone's spleen and sell it to a necromancer for 2 gold if you want.

 

[Delterius]

Unfortunately, there are three issues with that discussion. What you pointed out isn't necessarily true, you can certainly have boring loot with a limited inventory system; that doesn't take into consideration 'effectively' unlimited inventory systems, when you can't carry the entire world, just half of it; Finally, that boat is already past the circumnavigation of the globe at this point. Best to hammer the point that loot must be interesting.

 

[Brayko]

Eh, at the end of the day it's not something I'd lose sleep over, I got by on Baldur's Gate despite the annoying setbacks of running out of space. If they improve on that alone, I'll count it a blessing.

 

[Infinitron]

http://www.formspring.me/GZiets/q/447618234540123150

Are the playable races of PE meant to be closely related (ie all hominids or primates) and are they the only naturally intelligent species in the world or are there others? Is the setting more like D&D where there's many, or Dragon Age where there's few?

That’s a good question, and it's something we've been talking about lately. We haven’t defined all the creatures in the game yet, but based on our discussions so far, we’ll probably have some other intelligent or semi-intelligent species. Not as many as D&D, though.

As to the origins of the playable races... it's a mystery.

 

[sea]

I'd say the designer with over a decade of experience knows more about not making promises he's not sure he can keep than the amateur.

 

[Duraframe300]

Sawyer made some rather unorthodox proposals for P:E, i.e. the no missing mechanic, cooldowns, etc.

He is also an egotisitical hypocrite who thinks that he is the motherfucking RPG design Messiah. He has never proven himself as a low level designer, yet he states that most other RPG designers have no fucking idea what they are doing.
BTW: He generally criticizes other designers for implementing bad RPG elements in their games, yet he loves Shitrim, which is also not only ironic but quite hilarious.

Except he has critzized games he worked on. Multiple times.

Also, again. Him *loving* Skyrim means shit as he didn't even make one comment about the mechanics. The only thing we know about his *love* for Skyrim is his Steam gametime and him posting pics on twitter where the only thing he really did in the game was doing random shit. By the same metric you can pretty much discredit every other *legendary* game designer as well.

But we did this whole discussion already, didn't we weasel?

 

[sea]

It's worth pointing out that games with bad or even broken mechanics can still be fun because they are more than the sum of their parts, especially when the systems design is solid but the individual pieces of those systems have pr0oblems. That is actually far, far more common to see than games that simply are not fun on any level, and a designer would be an idiot to not recognize the difference between systems and mechanics and the ways they are both important in designing a game.

 

[Brayko]

I believe that those are called "flawed gems".

 

[imweasel]

Except he has critzized games he worked on. Multiple times.

Oh really, he actually criticized his work and didn't just blame it on the mechanics (that he did not design)?

Also, again. Him *loving* Skyrim means shit as he didn't even make one comment about the mechanics. The only thing we know about his *love* for Skyrim is his Steam gametime and him posting pics on twitter where the only thing he really did in the game was doing random shit. By the same metric you can pretty much discredit every other *legendary* game designer as well.

But we did this whole discussion already, didn't we weasel?

I mean, you have to admit, it is quite ironic that Sawyer generally criticizes other designers for implementing bad RPG elements in their games, yet he loves Shitrim.
But anyway, there is no need to get all pissed off when I point out that Sawyer loves a shitty game with shitty RPG mechanics. Sawyer doesn't care so why should you?

As convincing as a homeless drunkard, sluring incomprehensible rants and hurling insults at random passers-by...

Faggot is pissed. Faggot whines. Faggot insults. Faggot fails.

 

[Cosmo]

Faggot is pissed. Faggot whines. Faggot insults. Faggot fails.

For maximized comedic effect, may i suggest you to try and re-read that just after your rant about Sawyer ?

 

[imweasel]

Watching a dumbfag throw a hissy fit when somebody points out negative facts about Sawyer is more amusing actually.

 

[Roguey]

My eyes widen in admiration whenever I see Josh talking about how much he hates third edition D&D.

lmaaaaaaaaoooo i just listened to an old PE update (#36) and rope kid literally says "icewind dale 2 character advancement had *SO* many choices for you to make" which is the most funny thing ive ever heard


1) you pick a class to level up. sounds cool and SSMA as hell EXCEPT: theres absolutely no reason to multiclass a spellcaster and theres not exactly that much payoff to doing it for anyone else either. except for rogues, who are worthless and are much better served with the majority of their levels being a fighter class.

2) you pick stats every fourth level (99% of the time the only correct choice is your primary attribute)

3) you pick skills (lol, not even gonna say anything here, they contribute almost nothing to the flow of the game)

4) you pick feats. the feat list is pretty gosh darn short and even here theres a shitload of stinkers no sane person would ever pick (lol courteous mageocracy LOL!!!!!), so anyone whos not dumb will pick the same short list of dodge/power attack/weapon focus + expertise/spell focus/spell pen/aegis of rime etc.

yeah that's what i was saying iirc. iwd2/3e have a ton of character choices but a lot of them are bad.

i love games with a million trap choices

i don't!!!

it's a fine line between having too many worthless choices and having not enough decisions that really let you differentiate your guy from the rest. I think a lot of the problem is that games just don't have enough moments to take advantage of your skills.

agreed.

 

[Excidium]

Well there's something I can agree with him.

 

[Duraframe300]

Especially when the Legendary Designer still hasn't figured out what mechanics works in a RPG after working in the "industry" for 10+ years and talks about cooldowns and regens.

Most people at Obsidian (including Sawyer) never worked on their own (classic) crpg system, with exception of Tim Cain. And the ones he did were either A: Heavily based on GURPS or B: A complete clusterfuck (Arcanum)

So yeah, I imagine they are experimenting with possiblities. It IS a first-timer for them.

Over a decade says nothing if you never did it. For comparison Ken Levine's been doing fps based games for the same amount of time and he still hasn't managed satisfying shooting mechanics/gameplay.

 

[Brayko]

I like 3rd edition because it feels more tactical. Even if it does seem rather dumbed down at first.

Also, I'm always a fighter and I never choose power attack.

 

[Gelbvieh]

Always found Power Attack very useful for beating on stuff that's either slow or weak.