Obsidian's Pillars of Eternity [BETA RELEASED, GO TO THE NEW THREAD]

[Arkeus]

Meadow Folk (humans) are white (Aedyr/Dyrwood) people originally from the north, Ocean Folk are black (Vailians) seafaring equatorial people, and Savannah Folk are (essentially) mestizo. They also have native names for themselves (Meadow = Thyrtan, Vailians = Calbandra, Savannah = Natlan) like the other races/ethnicities (Wood Elves = Sceltrfolc, Pale Elves = Glamfellen), but the common names are what you see on your character sheet.

Race affects attributes, but ethnicity does not.

 

[Gozma]

Why the hell does the discussion seem to fall back on "what Sawyer's like" every 5 pages or so? He's not the only person working on the project and i doubt Obisidian's project development system is dictatorshi-like where project lead vetoes everyone and does whatever he wants without caring what the other people say. Sawyer clearly seems to have some hardcore fans on here (one in particular) and a few haters as well (again one in particular at least in the last few pages), why are people feeding them with more off-topic material by arguing on Sawyer with them?

I had the impression that all major design decisions like basic systems are gonna on Sawyer, "the buck stops here" style. This is gonna be the game that isn't an iteration of somehting else, isn't controlled by capricious publisher demands, and ultimately shows what he's really made of and whether his 4th Edition D&D gamey balance-y abstract-y weltanschauung is really capable of being a thoroughgoing design strategy and whether the end result looks much different than everything that came before - and if it ends up being more interesting. I mean... what other narratives about P:E matter that much artistically?

 

[Dhralei]

Meh, most of what was discussed over the last few pages smacks of butthurt whether one is for or against Sawyer. Lots of people regurgitating the same stuff over and over again as if repeating it will make it true.

Feel free to start a smart and proper discussion whennever you want if my butthurt-ness bothers you.

Why should I be bothered by your butthurtness? I now read the thread to follow the butthurt and don't particularly care which source my entertainment comes from. My last comment was just a small effort at pointing out that the last pages of the thread are full of pots calling kettles black and vice versa.

Feel free to carry on though. I can always use more entertainment.

 

[Infinitron]

I mean... what other narratives about P:E matter that much artistically?

"Narratives"?

I think most people care more about seeing what Obsidian as a whole can come up with, not just Sawyer.

 

[uaciaut]

Why the hell does the discussion seem to fall back on "what Sawyer's like" every 5 pages or so? He's not the only person working on the project and i doubt Obisidian's project development system is dictatorshi-like where project lead vetoes everyone and does whatever he wants without caring what the other people say. Sawyer clearly seems to have some hardcore fans on here (one in particular) and a few haters as well (again one in particular at least in the last few pages), why are people feeding them with more off-topic material by arguing on Sawyer with them?

Your opinion smacks of dire butthurt, an incurable disease. No one here, I repeat no one, is saying that the game will be shit In fact with people like MCA, Ziets on board it can only be good.

What the hell does this even mean? I said that the thread getting derailed into either "Sawyer suxxxx" (see weasel's post above) or "Sawyer is almost goddddd" (see roguey) is becoming dumb and people should probably stop replying to them. How is that dire butthurt?

Because sawyer is not being criticized as he is Ugly or gay. He is being criticized for designing poor game mechanics. I see that as very relevant.

Except the part where what he's said ON PROJECT ETERNITY in his updates is hardly (if at all) brought up and people just bash him because shit like "he said on his twitter he likes some parts of Skyrim's feauters" or "he said BG 2 sucks" when in reality he said he didn't like BG2 for some specific parts like HAVING to go after Imoen to progress anything in the story or being bombarded with quests since the very start (i agree with the former, disagree with the latter fwiw). Bashing constantly or riding on one bandwagon or another because you think X or Y of the guy is dumb as fuck. Again especially since you're not touching almost anything the guy has fucking said he was doing on the fucking project.

Why the hell does the discussion seem to fall back on "what Sawyer's like" every 5 pages or so? He's not the only person working on the project and i doubt Obisidian's project development system is dictatorshi-like where project lead vetoes everyone and does whatever he wants without caring what the other people say. Sawyer clearly seems to have some hardcore fans on here (one in particular) and a few haters as well (again one in particular at least in the last few pages), why are people feeding them with more off-topic material by arguing on Sawyer with them?

I had the impression that all major design decisions like basic systems are gonna on Sawyer, "the buck stops here" style. This is gonna be the game that isn't an iteration of somehting else, isn't controlled by capricious publisher demands, and ultimately shows what he's really made of and whether his 4th Edition D&D gamey balance-y abstract-y weltanschauung is really capable of being a thoroughgoing design strategy and whether the end result looks much different than everything that came before - and if it ends up being more interesting.

Curious how his mechanical changes to ad&d will work and feel as well, for the most part i think what he's touched upon in his updates (at least so far) makes sense so it's probably mostly up to implementing it in the right way and making sure the math backs up the mechanic. We'll see i guess.

 

[Gozma]

What word you want me to use fucker... it's not a story because no one is telling it, it's just the shit people are talking about... fuck you
fuck
narrative
fjucl

Good lore and conversations and quest design are great but they're just kinda standard Obsidian shit at this point, and that's what the other designers are doing. This is a Baldur's Gate style squad tactics game, the rules and core squad tactics stuff are gonna be the make or break stuff.

I guess I personally don't give a shit about lore outside of the actual experience of playing the game so lore talk doesn't interest me, but that might be the other thing to talk about.

 

[Sensuki]

Agreed I guess, doesn't matter how good the storyline or lore is, if the combat sucks then replayability is pretty much ruined for me.

 

[tuluse]

Meadow Folk (humans) are white (Aedyr/Dyrwood) people originally from the north, Ocean Folk are black (Vailians) seafaring equatorial people, and Savannah Folk are (essentially) mestizo. They also have native names for themselves (Meadow = Thyrtan, Vailians = Calbandra, Savannah = Natlan) like the other races/ethnicities (Wood Elves = Sceltrfolc, Pale Elves = Glamfellen), but the common names are what you see on your character sheet.

Race affects attributes, but ethnicity does not.

I wonder if ethnicity will affect how people treat you.

 

[Infinitron]

Good lore and conversations and quest design are great but they're just kinda standard Obsidian shit at this point, and that's what the other designers are doing. This is a Baldur's Gate style squad tactics game, the rules and core squad tactics stuff are gonna be the make or break stuff.

I guess I personally don't give a shit about lore outside of the actual experience of playing the game so lore talk doesn't interest me, but that might be the other thing to talk about.

I agree with you, but in a game like this, that experience is tightly bound with the actual content of the game. The enemies you fight, the items you find. Can Obsidian's level designers into good and imaginative encounter design and effective loot distribution? It doesn't matter how good the systems are if you're using them to slog through uninteresting, unbalanced or buggy content.

 

[imweasel]

Oh, the combat will be good.

I'm sure that Obsidian will get some true bros on the job to fix the shit that Sawyer has produced before the game is released.

 

[Sensuki]

We haven't heard too much about Chris Avellone's input on the project so far, it seems kind of minimal atm?

 

[Infinitron]

We haven't heard too much about Chris Avellone's input on the project so far, it seems kind of minimal atm?

He and George Ziets are the main narrative designers. You haven't heard their input because it would be spoilers.

 

[imweasel]

We haven't heard too much about Chris Avellone's input on the project so far, it seems kind of minimal atm?

He is putting a lot of work into PE. Mostly writing I guess, maybe some level design too.

 

[Zeriel]

"The camera has a fixed axonometric perspective"
Do you also eat meat for your vegan diet, Josh?

 

[Infinitron]

"The camera has a fixed axonometric perspective"
Do you also eat meat for your vegan diet, Josh?

That's not "some guy", it's villain of the story

 

[imweasel]

"The camera has a fixed axonometric perspective"
Do you also eat meat for your vegan diet, Josh?

That's not "some guy", it's villain of the story

That's his way of saying "that makes no fucking sense". :D

 

[Lord Andre]

My problem with Sawyer is not that he criticizes things. Is that he criticizes things I like:

- BG2 as a whole.
- Mage duels in BG2.
- RNG playing a role in combat outcome.
- Linear warriors, quadratic wizards.
- Small inventory.
- Vancian spell system.

Than he praises, or endorses by considering, things I hate:

- Cooldowns.
- Hand waving mechanics with no in-game explanation.
- D&D 4 (GOD I HATE D&D 4) mechanics.
- Final Fantasy type warriors that unleash energy waves from their swords.
- Aggro mechanics.
- All classes can be played actively - see awesome button.
- Health regeneration. (Fuck you ! It's stamina. Fuck you harder ! It's still health.)
- Normal mode is actually retard friendly mode.
- Hardcore mode is actually normal mode. The increase in difficulty comes from artificially adding more mobs to an encounter.

Now, if someone from Bioware was responsible for the above, his name would be cursed for years on the codex. Sawyer does it, and for some reason I should cut him some slack ? Why ? Cause' he's a nice guy? He ain't. Cause' he's a bro? He ain't. Cause of he's past work? Not impressed.
The burden of proof does not lie with me. It lies with him. If he makes great gameplay, I'll admit I was wrong. Until then I will judge him by his current actions as enumerated above.

 

[Infinitron]

The thing is, nobody actually cares that much about mechanics. Content is king. All of this whining is a huge waste of time.

PE could actually have shitty mechanics and people on the Codex would still love it if it has an imaginative, intriguing and well-written plot, and awesome reactivity and C&C. That is the Codexian way.

But I think the mechanics will be okay.

Aggro mechanics.

wat

Hardcore mode is actually normal mode. The increase in difficulty comes from artificially adding more mobs to an encounter.

No. Each difficulty level will have its own encounter design and the hardcore mode just puts them all together. It doesn't "add more".

 

[Lord Andre]

However, I want to be fair, and in fairness I will enumerate the incline (IMO) that he wants to add to the game:

- Tactical positioning of characters.
- Magical healing is scarce or non-existent.
- Matrix slow motion instead of pausing.
- Dividing combat skills and non-combat skills in terms of leveling them up. (Yes, this one is controversial but I like it. And the fact that not every class gets every skill should prevent Superman characters.)

 

[tuluse]

- Matrix slow motion instead of pausing.

It's not instead of, it's your choice what you want.

Also there's no cool downs in this game.

 

[Lord Andre]

No. Each difficulty level will have its own encounter design and the hardcore mode just puts them all together. It doesn't "add more".

If a particular encounter is made up of different sets of mobs depending on chosen difficulty and hardcore mode just adds all those sets together...

Tuluse: I know it's my choice, I was saying that adding the choice is incline. I know cooldowns are not in, but at one point he was considering it. I specifically used the word considering in my post. I didn't just find out about this game, I've been following it from the beginning.

 

[Kosmonaut]

The thing is, nobody actually cares that much about mechanics.

Speak for yourself, motherfucker.

 

[Arkeus]

No. Each difficulty level will have its own encounter design and the hardcore mode just puts them all together. It doesn't "add more".

If a particular encounter is made up of different sets of mobs depending on chosen difficulty and hardcore mode just adds all those sets together...

PAth of the damned is pretty much "you get ALL the enemies". That's a special mode that is as far from 'normal' as possible, and if Sawyer doesn't mess up it's a mode that should be impossible to manage on a first playthrough.

 

[Infinitron]

- Matrix slow motion instead of pausing.

It's not instead of, it's your choice what you want.

Also there's no cool downs in this game.

Yeah, but even just considering them puts Sawyer in Lord Andre's shitlist. Which is fine, but the thing is, do any of us have any idea how many stupid things our favorite designers considered using in their games and then decided not to? If Sawyer had kept his mouth shut the same way inXile does, we wouldn't even have known that cooldowns were ever considered.

Game design is an iterative process. Designers consider many ideas, they test them out. They keep the best ones and discard the ones that ended up not working as well. You judge a designer's worth by the quality of his final product, not by what he's "considered".

 

[FeelTheRads]

Than he praises, or endorses by considering, things I hate:

Don't forget mini-games.