Obsidian's Pillars of Eternity [BETA RELEASED, GO TO THE NEW THREAD]

[Azrael the cat]

This tipped you off? I mean, does this guy:

obsess over RPG systems?

As for languages... I hate the 'ITS FANTASY' argument but I've got to bring it up here. Things should be strange to us, and P:E already looks more generic than most people here would like it to be. Besides, that you can't pronounce something is a retarded thing to bring up. I don't have to bring up syntax hells from eastern europe to be sure that most people can't pronounce most other languages well.

I know that one should never EVER mention the sequel to that film (trust me, I'll be ritually flogging myself for the next few hours for having brought it up), but doesn't that guy end up becoming a nerd in the sequel?

 

[Delterius]

There's a sequel to that movie? It all makes sense!!

 

[wergle]

Guys is it really true that Josh Sawyer is making a brand new RPG system? I don't think any game has ever done that before

 

[Sensuki]

Yes it's new but not brand new, because it's a mish mash of familiar concepts.

Character advancement seems to be a blend of D&D 4E and Pathfinder: Each class advances at the same rate (class ability per level, probably the same advancement of skill points, talents and ability scores) but they are not as samey as the 4E Power system, a class ability covers everything from passive bonuses, modal skills to access to Nth level spells.

Wizards (and perhaps Priests) have quasi-vancian spellcasting, but instead of every spell being per day, some are now per encounter (as in 4E) and the rest are per rest. Wizards require a Grimoire to be able to cast spells. As they level up the lower level spells will switch from per rest to per encounter and possibly the lowest levels (1st and at least 2nd by the end of the game) will probably become useable without a Grimoire.

They've also borrowed elements from Fallout New Vegas (Faction Reputation System, Inspired Armor system), Darklands (Inspired Health mechanics, Skill-based interaction screens) and the resting mechanic is .. Darklands/Dark Souls inspired?

One of the best thing is I think that they have not even worked Ability Scores/Stats into the game yet, they will be designed on top of all the gameplay systems rather than the systems designed around them. This could be a very good thing as it may allow for a lot of flexibility.

The thing that matters most to me is the feel of the combat. If it feels like playing Dragon Age Origins then I'm going to be a bit upset. But they reckon that they've got it feeling like an IE game ... so we'll see.

 

[Mangoose]

Modal abilities sound like the right step for RTWP. Away from both IE and DA, and towards better macromanagement of your party. It would be nice if there were a box or window where you can toggle the modal abilities of all your party members without needing to select one unit.

 

[Sensuki]

To me that's kinda lazy, you will probably be able to programmable hotkey most of that stuff so you can bind a row of keys to modal abilities if you want I'm sure. I do admit though that I enjoy being able to tab through units in WC3/DotA.

 

[Mangoose]

To me that's kinda lazy, you will probably be able to programmable hotkey most of that stuff so you can bind a row of keys to modal abilities if you want I'm sure. I do admit though that I enjoy being able to tab through units in WC3/DotA.

Lazy? You mean efficient, right? It's not a mechanic that would be a shortcut for tactical thinking, it's just a replacement for extra clicking. But yes hotkeys would be good. And either distinct auras/icons or some other manner of presenting the status of the modal abilities is key too.

 

[tuluse]

6 man DA with better writing, no obviously exploitable cone of colds, and a spell list as vast as BG1 would be a pretty nice kickstarter.

 

[Mangoose]

6 man DA with better writing, no obviously exploitable cone of colds, and a spell list as vast as BG1 would be a pretty nice kickstarter.

No, the DA model is retarded. You don't make an RTWP game and then force people to micromanage short-cooldown abilities among 3+ characters. At the very least, let me command all my units and their abilities from one interface instead of having to select each character and then select their abilities.

 

[April]

Exploitable cone of cold? Edit: Ah, you were talking about DA's retarded combat.

 

[CyberWhale]

6 man DA with better writing, no obviously exploitable cone of colds, and a spell list as vast as BG1 would be a pretty nice kickstarter.

Isn't that what PE actually is?

 

[Sensuki]

Lazy? You mean efficient, right?

Sure it's efficient, but is it really worth a new button on the UI or something? Personally I think that's a waste of space. I want a Baldur's Gate/Icewind Dale style UI. I think the best of both worlds would be to be able to tab through your selected units and hotkey the modal abilities etc

 

[Mangoose]

Lazy? You mean efficient, right?

Sure it's efficient, but is it really worth a new button on the UI or something? Personally I think that's a waste of space. I want a Baldur's Gate/Icewind Dale style UI. I think the best of both worlds would be to be able to tab through your selected units and hotkey the modal abilities etc

Hotkeys do not present an information interface that shows what abilities your characters have toggled on and off.

If I'm being challenged with a tactical or strategic battle, I want all the relevant information presented to my eyes in an efficient yet complete manner. Period. Hunting for information via tabbing through characters is not pleasurable to me - that is just tedious logistics.

Now if a good presentation of data means combat gets easier... well.. buff the encounters, then. That's only a win-win: more efficient control of combat with even more complex combat.

The other option is advanced, configurable AI, that lets you manage one character without needing to keep constant tabs on your other characters, and set general orders that don't require very precise micromanagement.

Either you make it easy for me to keep track of all the tedious logistics, or you make it so I don't have to.

 

[Mangoose]

Think of it this way. Would it be so much fun that there was no presentation of party HP values on screen, but instead you have to tab through each character to see how much health each character has? The status of modal abilities is not to that degree, but still is a similar situation. If there's information that's important to know in combat, then I should be able to see it constantly, within reason. If the status of modal abilities is not that important... Well... That means the mechanic is too weak, and not interesting. :p

 

[Sensuki]

Fair enough.

In contrast though I have absolutely no problem reading through the spell books to see what each spell does, and I have no problem selecting each character separately and micro'ing their abilities/spells - that's what I am used to from the older infinity engine games and playing RTS games.

I also don't care for AI control options for my party, I'd prefer to pause and manually do every single thing. The only thing I like is if they attack enemies on sight.

 

[Roguey]

Modal abilities sound like the right step for RTWP. Away from both IE and DA, and towards better macromanagement of your party. It would be nice if there were a box or window where you can toggle the modal abilities of all your party members without needing to select one unit.

Um, DA has modal abilities. So does NWN.

No, the DA model is retarded. You don't make an RTWP game and then force people to micromanage short-cooldown abilities among 3+ characters.

I've never had to micromanage every character. The tactics screen is there so you can let AI do the majority of the heavy lifting. For DA:O I only needed to pay constant attention to my mages and for DA2 I never had to touch my companions at all.

 

[Mangoose]

Um, DA has modal abilities. So does NWN.

They suck.

The tactics screen is there so you can let AI do the majority of the heavy lifting.

They suck. See FFXII where they do it right.

DA2 I never had to touch my companions at all.

DA2 sucks.

 

[Roguey]

Well looks like Eternity's will likely also be sucking. Modal abilities are things like "fighters increase their amount of melee defense and the number of enemies they can engage while decreasing their attack speed." I imagine there will also be abilities similar to power attack, rapid shot, barbarian rage, and the like.

 

[Arkeus]

Well looks like Eternity's will likely also be sucking. Modal abilities are things like "fighters increase their amount of melee defense and the number of enemies they can engage while decreasing their attack speed." I imagine there will also be abilities similar to power attack, rapid shot, barbarian rage, and the like.

How awful.

 

[Mangoose]

Well looks like Eternity's will likely also be sucking. Modal abilities are things like "fighters increase their amount of melee defense and the number of enemies they can engage while decreasing their attack speed." I imagine there will also be abilities similar to power attack, rapid shot, barbarian rage, and the like.

Being a moron again, I see. The failure of a specific implementation of a mechanic in a specific game does not mean the mechanic is flawed in design. There are a number of other design choices that either help it as a complement or supplement, or they can hinder it. If, for example, there are only 1-2 modal abilities per character, this doesn't necessarily provide as much tactical variety as a system implemented with 4-5. If enemies don't use modal abilities, then combat is not as interesting as if enemies did have them. Modal abilities may or may not synergize with one another, from another party member, or in negative effect towards an enemy's modal ability. Then there are differences if modal abilities drain an endurance bar or are "free."

Not to mention, there are way more ways to implement modal abilities than what you can copy from D&D. You just have to think outside the box.

 

[Roguey]

Well looks like Eternity's will likely also be sucking. Modal abilities are things like "fighters increase their amount of melee defense and the number of enemies they can engage while decreasing their attack speed." I imagine there will also be abilities similar to power attack, rapid shot, barbarian rage, and the like.

Being a moron again, I see. The failure of a specific implementation of a mechanic in a specific game does not mean the mechanic is flawed in design. There are a number of other design choices that either help it as a complement or supplement, or they can hinder it. If, for example, there are only 1-2 modal abilities per character, this doesn't necessarily provide as much tactical variety as a system implemented with 4-5. If enemies don't use modal abilities, then combat is not as interesting as if enemies did have them. Modal abilities may or may not synergize with one another, from another party member, or in negative effect towards an enemy's modal ability. Then there are differences if modal abilities drain an endurance bar or are "free."

Not to mention, there are way more ways to implement modal abilities than what you can copy from D&D. You just have to think outside the box.

So in other words you're making a lot of assumptions about how they'll work.

 

[Mangoose]

Well looks like Eternity's will likely also be sucking. Modal abilities are things like "fighters increase their amount of melee defense and the number of enemies they can engage while decreasing their attack speed." I imagine there will also be abilities similar to power attack, rapid shot, barbarian rage, and the like.

Being a moron again, I see. The failure of a specific implementation of a mechanic in a specific game does not mean the mechanic is flawed in design. There are a number of other design choices that either help it as a complement or supplement, or they can hinder it. If, for example, there are only 1-2 modal abilities per character, this doesn't necessarily provide as much tactical variety as a system implemented with 4-5. If enemies don't use modal abilities, then combat is not as interesting as if enemies did have them. Modal abilities may or may not synergize with one another, from another party member, or in negative effect towards an enemy's modal ability. Then there are differences if modal abilities drain an endurance bar or are "free."

Not to mention, there are way more ways to implement modal abilities than what you can copy from D&D. You just have to think outside the box.

So in other words you're making a lot of assumptions about how they'll work.

Nope, try again.

 

[Arkeus]

Nope, try again.

I think Roguey was being sarcastic.

 

[tuluse]

6 man DA with better writing, no obviously exploitable cone of colds, and a spell list as vast as BG1 would be a pretty nice kickstarter.

No, the DA model is retarded. You don't make an RTWP game and then force people to micromanage short-cooldown abilities among 3+ characters. At the very least, let me command all my units and their abilities from one interface instead of having to select each character and then select their abilities.

Good news then because PE doesn't have cooldowns.

 

[MicoSelva]

Wasn't there supposed to be an update yesterday, or even on Tuesday? Obsidian!