Obsidian's Pillars of Eternity [BETA RELEASED, GO TO THE NEW THREAD]

[Irenaeus]

We'll see who's still bleating come October of this year. Roguey certainly will be, as zhe would criticize someone giving zher mind-blowing oral sex if it fit zher agenda.

Blaine
Cis-Het Oppressor

 

[Rake]

Blaine
To be fair, all your justifications for inXile's shity record also apply to Obsidian. Or are you telling me that DS3 was meant to be more than just another game to put food on the table?
All of Obsidian's projects had shoestring budget and unreasonable deadlines. Most (but not all) of their game's flaws were because of that.

 

[gromit]

Or are you telling me that DS3 was meant to be more than just another game to put food on the table?

I don't know if he is, but I will: it was a low-design game with easy-fill content used in covering the development of a proprietary engine. If there's one thing FU et al have been consistently good at, from inception, it's reimplementing and iterating technology.

Hopefully Unity doesn't make Onyx moot; I've heard it, and its toolset, are damned cool. Perhaps that stuff is abstracted enough, that they can migrate such features, and the tools to use them, into Unity as extensions, at least?

 

[Jaesun]

Onyx will still be used for AAA games with all the middleware it has needed for AAA games.

 

[Blaine]

Blaine
To be fair, all your justifications for inXile's shity record also apply to Obsidian. Or are you telling me that DS3 was meant to be more than just another game to put food on the table?

I disagree that my justifications for inXile apply to Obsidian on a 1:1 basis, but for the most part I do agree that the smudges on their track record can and should be overlooked. I pledged $250 to P:E, after all.

The trouble is that NWN2 (the vanilla game, which is all I played, since there were no xpacs upon release) was absolutely terrible. I uninstalled it after an hour or two in disgust. That was a major Dungeons & Dragons cRPG that they fucked up. Even the well-written expansions were hampered by a Godawful engine and assets, and mediocre design of the game's infrastructure. I don't buy that Alpha Protocol was developed halfheartedly on a shoestring budget, either—it featured full voice acting, motion capture, and so on, and was a AAA made-for-console game. Obsidian had hoped that it would succeed. That said, since I didn't play it, I don't really hold it against them, either.

As I've said, New Vegas was their saving grace for me. Without it, I'd have had only NWN2 vanilla, Alpha Brotocol, and Dungeon Siege 3 to judge them by. KotOR2 was too long ago to really factor in. Can anyone except Roguey tell me with a straight face that NWN2 vanilla, Alpha Brotocol, and Dungeon Siege 3 should cause anyone to leap with joy and fork over money to Obsidian? Come on, people. Give me a fucking break. I like Feargus and Chris too, but not that much. The NWN2 expansion and New Vegas are the cobblestones that paved Obsidian's path to redemption. I believe that's an extremely reasonable viewpoint.

The Bard's Tale for consoles and Hunted: The Demon's Forge are inXile's true black marks. We'll never know how bad Hei$t would have been, although again, I lump it in with the pile of casual games.

I also care a great deal more about Wasteland and Torment than I do about a Baldur's Gate/Icewind Dale successor, and admittedly, that affects my willingness to both forgive and shell out cash. Frankly, Wasteland 2 and T:ToN promise to remain truer to 1990s cRPGs than does P:E, which will feature the same RTwP "developers, make this seem kind of like an action game in order to appeal to a broader audience —love, publishers" bullshit that was occurring in the very late 1990s. I realize there's an army of Codexians willing to defend Obsidian's choice of RTwP to the death, but I do now and always will consider it a mistake that's better off being corrected after the fact than embraced with nostalgia.

 

[tuluse]

I admire your willingness to make admissions that you know full well will severely undermine your credibility with not only me, but also with everyone who's seen you trash far better games than Dungeon Siege III. On the other hand, you probably realize that your credibility is, in my eyes, as thin as the dusting of gold across the far horizon at sunrise, so there's not much to lose.

I've undermined my own credibility by disregarding excellent advice and not placing you on my ignore list, but I dislike ignore list and, besides that, have a healthy sense of morbid curiosity.

Roguey freely admits she's easy to please, but highly critical.

 

[Blaine]

Roguey freely admits she's easy to please, but highly critical.

That's one way to look at it, although it depends upon which is most convenient for zher agenda while an argument is in progress.

If you don't see the tremendous bias in "I thought it was decent" and a citation of Josh Sawyer's defense of his company's product, coming from a person who also claims that zhe's been terribly disappointed by practically every cRPG ever made, then I have a bridge to sell you.

 

[TheRabbitsGeorge]

Roguey freely admits she's easy to please

 

[Rake]

Blaine
To be fair, all your justifications for inXile's shity record also apply to Obsidian. Or are you telling me that DS3 was meant to be more than just another game to put food on the table?

I disagree that my justifications for inXile apply to Obsidian on a 1:1 basis, but for the most part I do agree that the smudges on their track record can and should be overlooked. I pledged $250 to P:E, after all.

The trouble is that NWN2 (the vanilla game, which is all I played, since there were no xpacs upon release) was absolutely terrible. I uninstalled it after an hour or two in disgust. That was a major Dungeons & Dragons cRPG that they fucked up. Even the well-written expansions were hampered by a Godawful engine and assets, and mediocre design of the game's infrastructure. I don't buy that Alpha Protocol was developed halfheartedly on a shoestring budget, either—it featured full voice acting, motion capture, and so on, and was a AAA made-for-console game. Obsidian had hoped that it would succeed. That said, since I didn't play it, I don't really hold it against them, either.

As I've said, New Vegas was their saving grace for me. Without it, I'd have had only NWN2 vanilla, Alpha Brotocol, and Dungeon Siege 3 to judge them by. KotOR2 was too long ago to really factor in. Can anyone except Roguey tell me with a straight face that NWN2 vanilla, Alpha Brotocol, and Dungeon Siege 3 should cause anyone to leap with joy and fork over money to Obsidian? Come on, people. Give me a fucking break. I like Feargus and Chris too, but not that much. The NWN2 expansion and New Vegas are the cobblestones that paved Obsidian's path to redemption. I believe that's an extremely reasonable viewpoint.

The Bard's Tale for consoles and Hunted: The Demon's Forge are inXile's true black marks. We'll never know how bad Hei$t would have been, although again, I lump it in with the pile of casual games.

I also care a great deal more about Wasteland and Torment than I do about a Baldur's Gate/Icewind Dale successor, and admittedly, that affects my willingness to both forgive and shell out cash. Frankly, Wasteland 2 and T:ToN promise to remain truer to 1990s cRPGs than does P:E, which will feature the same RTwP "developers, make this seem kind of like an action game in order to appeal to a broader audience —love, publishers" bullshit that was occurring in the very late 1990s. I realize there's an army of Codexians willing to defend Obsidian's choice of RTwP to the death, but I do now and always will consider it a mistake that's better off being corrected after the fact than embraced with nostalgia.

I'm also more exited by Torment successor than BG successor. But T:ToN may also be RTwP.In fact i expect it to be unless the backer dynamics are way different than i think.

 

[AN4RCHID]

Obsidian doesn't have a good track record, but inXile has a 100% shit track record. I'm hopeful, but honestly none of these games have very good odds. Brian Fargo was behind a lot of good games in the past, but then he had Black Isle and Interplay actually making the games. Now he has the team that made Choplifter, Hunted: The Demon's Forge, and The Bard's Tale. Obsidian has some good people, but they generally make shit and can't work within a budget. At least they'll all be well written.

 

[Infinitron]

Now he has the team that made Choplifter, Hunted: The Demon's Forge, and The Bard's Tale.

That's odd, I thought he had people like Chris Avellone, Colin McComb, Kevin Saunders, George Ziets, Brian Mitsoda, Monte Cook, Adam Heine...

 

[AN4RCHID]

Now he has the team that made Choplifter, Hunted: The Demon's Forge, and The Bard's Tale.

That's odd, I thought he had people like Chris Avellone, Colin McComb, Kevin Saunders, George Ziets, Brian Mitsoda, Monte Cook, Adam Heine...

Like I said, good writers. Kevin Saunders and Adam Heine may or may not be competent system designers. We'll see. I somehow doubt raising orphans in 'Nam is the best game design training, but what do I know?

 

[Infinitron]

Now he has the team that made Choplifter, Hunted: The Demon's Forge, and The Bard's Tale.

That's odd, I thought he had people like Chris Avellone, Colin McComb, Kevin Saunders, George Ziets, Brian Mitsoda, Monte Cook, Adam Heine...

Like I said, good writers. Kevin Saunders and Adam Heine may or may not be competent system designers. We'll see. I somehow doubt raising orphans in 'Nam is the best game design training, but what do I know?

That's not what you said.

Bottom line, you simply can't make any projections here based on past performance, for Obsidian or for inXile - too much has changed. Different genre, different funding, different teams, different development process. It's a completely new game. Blank slate.

 

[Roguey]

I admire your willingness to make admissions that you know full well will severely undermine your credibility with not only me, but also with everyone who's seen you trash far better games than Dungeon Siege III.

Any specific examples? It's possible I thought they were decent enough as well.

If you don't see the tremendous bias in "I thought it was decent" and a citation of Josh Sawyer's defense of his company's product, coming from a person who also claims that zhe's been terribly disappointed by practically every cRPG ever made, then I have a bridge to sell you.

Josh isn't biased; if he was, he would claim every Obsidian game has fun gameplay. I'm also sure there are things he likes that I don't but I can't think of any game-related examples at the moment.

And it was disappointing, but I'm a contrarian, so there's no need to talk about what I didn't like when that's already more than well-covered by others.

 

[Lancehead]

You simply can't make any projections here based on past performance, for Obsidian or for inXile - too much has changed. Different genre, different funding, different teams, different development process. It's a completely new game. Blank slate.

I more or less take for granted that P:E's narrative design will be on par or better in terms of quality with what Obsidian have done in the past, because what they've been able to do in the past.

 

[St. Toxic]

I'm expecting something along the lines of Choplifter for WL2 and Numenera.

 

[Blaine]

I'm expecting something along the lines of Choplifter for WL2 and Numenera.

10/10

I'm expecting Torment to outclass as well as out-fund and outsell P:E, can't wait for the tears of anguish from some of these Obshitian Ordurr sheeplords.

 

[St. Toxic]

I think P:E will be like a top-down Fallout 3, only with more bugs.

 

[Jaesun]

Try harder.

 

[St. Toxic]

We'll see what happens. Evidently Niche title + Mass market appeal = Glorious design doctrine.

 

[Rake]

I'm expecting Torment to outclass as well as out-fund and outsell P:E, can't wait for the tears of anguish from some of these Obshitian Ordurr sheeplords.

Ironicaly, i expect the two games to be similar. From the 3 games P:E draws inspiration, PS:T strengths are the ones i expect Obsidian to nail.
If something going to suck in P:E, chances are it will be the gameplay and not the narrative.

 

[Volrath]

Josh will make a fun game. He's too much of an aspie not to.

 

[Blaine]

I'm curious to see whether Josh's approach to game design results in spectacularly bad combat mechanics, or unprecedentedly great combat mechanics, the latter being my preferred outcome.

I just hope they don't turn out to be thoroughly mediocre, and yet excused or even praised by fanboys and apologists.

 

[Rake]

Josh will make a fun game. He's too much of an aspie not to.

Yes but the last game of his that was fun to play for me was IWD2. Not that it was Obsidian's fault most of the time, but NWN2 was their fault and was inexcusable.

 

[Rake]

I'm curious to see whether Josh's approach to game design results in spectacularly bad combat mechanics, or unprecedentedly great combat mechanics, the latter being my preferred outcome.

I just hope they don't turn out to be thoroughly mediocre, and yet excused or even praised by fanboys and apologists.

Have you seen an Obsidian fanboy to praise their gameplay? (except Roguey, it doesn't count) Most Obsidian fans are fans because "great writting, great story,great characters, worth to endure the gameplay".
From Planescape too New Vegas it's the same story.