Obsidian's Pillars of Eternity [BETA RELEASED, GO TO THE NEW THREAD]

[MicoSelva]

Cool, there is a new update for P:E.

*reads*



What the fuck is this shit? Wounds fuelling special attacks? In what way does that even make sense? I got punched, so I will suffer wounds in a moment, unless I punch someone in return. Does not compute.

That was my opinion from thematic point of view, below You will find my opinion from gameplay point of view:

More RTWP melee micro-managament, with cooldowns!


But yeah, it is original. If that's what they were going for; full success.

 

[Crooked Bee]

I for one am really glad Sawyer is going for the mortification-of-the-flesh monk rather than the traditional unarmed-ninja-monk. Not too enthralled with the special attacks, but overall the concept appeals so much more to me.

 

[Arkeus]

These are probably the worst Monk mechanics I've ever seen in an RPG. Just rename the class to masochist or something. Monks should be avoiding attacks, not getting slapped on purpose so they can do a shoryuken.

Ah, i see you want to keep using the Asian monk stereotypes and not the western monk inspiration. Too bad it seems to use the western types of monk here.

 

[Rivmusique]

This post summerizes why Codexians are retards sometimes.
>read a half senctence
>don't like it
>rage about it on the codex
>read other half of the sentence
>oh, it is not that bad afterall
>?
>look like an idiot.

Yes. Yes it does.

On the update: I never really liked monks before, and it looks like eternity won't give me any reason to change that. Damage taken (or hits taken here, as if you use abilities right you drop a heap of the damage it seems) as a resource just isn't my thing I guess.

 

[J_C]

Cool, there is a new update for P:E.

*reads*



What the fuck is this shit? Wounds fuelling special attacks? In what way does that even make sense? I got punched, so I will suffer wounds in a moment, unless I punch someone in return. Does not compute.

.

Yes, because barbarians goint berserk because suffereing damage is so much different in classic RPGs.

 

[Ismaul]

Mortification of the flesh

The concept is nice but the Wound system feels a bit clunky.

 

[MicoSelva]

I for one am really glad Sawyer is going for the mortification-of-the-flesh monk rather than the traditional unarmed-ninja-monk. Not too enthralled with the special attacks, but overall the concept appeals so much more to me.

Mortification of the flesh sounds cool, but gaining wounds and immediately getting rid of them to perform extraordinary feats does not really fit that term.

Mortification of the flesh is the institutional expiatory act of a person or group's penance for atonement of sins and path to sanctity. The term is primarily used in religious and spiritual contexts. The practice is found in many cultures, most notably the Roman CathoI would not object if they went for lic Church and their penitential saints. Common forms of mortification includes flagellation, in imitation of Jesus Christ's suffering and death by crucifixion. Other forms are fasting, carrying heavy loads and immersion in water which are found in some Asian cultures.

If one was to apply this to game mechanics, I would rather see it done with some kind of sense, like deliberately decreasing some kind of physical stat of Your character (health? vitality? strength?) to gain spiritual benefits (special powers?), not some micro-management damage-over-time shit.

Yes, because barbarians goint berserk because suffereing damage is so much different in classic RPGs.

Because it is.
Berserker's ability to increase his physical potential by suffering wounds is derived from adrenaline rush that comes from pain. Basically, they take advantage of the primal fight or flight mechanism, by being badass enough never to go into "flight" mode.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

On the update: I never really liked monks before, and it looks like eternity won't give me any reason to change that. Damage taken (or hits taken here, as if you use abilities right you drop a heap of the damage it seems) as a resource just isn't my thing I guess.

I like the idea, it's a different character concept - everyone else is trying to avoid damage at all costs, the monk can put it to some good use.

edit: holy shit, page 666 soon.

 

[J_C]

Yes, because barbarians goint berserk because suffereing damage is so much different in classic RPGs.

Because it is.
Berserker's ability to increase his physical potential by suffering wounds is derived from adrenaline rush that comes from pain. Basically, they take advantage of the primal fight or flight mechanism, by being badass enough never to go into "flight" mode.

Well monks will take adventage of this adrenaline rush as well. But because of they are special trained monks, they can use this to make special moves.

 

[dunno lah]

So...if I want to psych up a monk in my party right before a battle, I just gotta command someone to hit him until his wounds max out? That sounds kinda OP. Unless the DoT rate is faster than I'm perceiving it to be...

This monk is gonna be a hit or miss among players.

 

[Tigranes]

I actually love the monks, in that they actually came up with an in-game reason for monks to go unarmed that is reflected in gameplay styles, and as a bonus, it's not a 'hard limit' and it presents new and interesting tactical choices. What's not to like over the standard monks?

And without going into some complicated historical debate about Eastern 'monks', I don't really see how this violates the popular imagination of the monk either. I didn't realise they were defined by their uncanny ability to dodge things, and they are on a continuum with ascetics, hardcore endurance training, etc. (Of course shrugging off sharp pointy sticks to the face is a stretch, but that applies to all classes.) Usually I'm turned off monks because you can't make use of all the items you find, so in this case they mitigate that too as much as you can while still focusing on unarmed monks.

And I assume friendly fire doesn't count towards wounds.

 

[Suicidal]

I too like the Monk concept. It seems they are putting some effort into making each class substantially different from each other through the addition of unique class mechanics and playstyles, which is always nice. I don't like where the difference between classes are quite meager, like a barbarian is essentially still the same fighter except with medium armor and an enrage skill, or a druid is essentially a cleric with some nature spells added on top.

To all the people complaining that "THAT'S NOT HOW MONKS ARE SUPPOSED TO WORK" or "THAT'S NOT HOW IT WORKS IN REAL LIFE": well, how do YOU know how it is supposed to work and how it is not in the context of PE's setting? Maybe the monks come from some religious order that teaches the magical way of releasing power through pain, or some other shit like that? It's a fucking fantasy world. With magic. They can do whatever they want with it and I'm sure there are gonna be lore explanations and whatnot. I don't even care if they don't somehow logically justify it, as increased number of gameplay styles and class mechanics >>> realism.

Now the important question is, whether they can successfully implement all of those mechanics in the game in order to create good variety and fun.

 

[Infinitron]

People complaining about class flexibility in a D&D inspired game? Ah, Codex.

 

[Arkeus]

So...if I want to psych up a monk in my party right before a battle, I just gotta command someone to hit him until his wounds max out? That sounds kinda OP. Unless the DoT rate is faster than I'm perceiving it to be...

This monk is gonna be a hit or miss among players.

Pretty sure that the Monk's ability to have wound doesn't mean it negates all the strike's damage. So if you, say, want to get 4 wounds, you may need to also get something like 5 health health damage as well as 20 stamina damage (exxagerating a bit, but you see what i mean).

Also, it only provides a 'short term boost', so it makes sense not to also get a DoT in most fights. Of course, getting the wounds ready when you have to HIT hard an enemy from the start (kill a glass canon) might help.

 

[J_C]

To all the people complaining that "THAT'S NOT HOW MONKS ARE SUPPOSED TO WORK" or "THAT'S NOT HOW IT WORKS IN REAL LIFE": well, how do YOU know how it is supposed to work and how it is not in the context of PE's setting? Maybe the monks come from some religious order that teaches the magical way of releasing power through pain, or some other shit like that? It's a fucking fantasy world. With magic. They can do whatever they want with it and I'm sure there are gonna be lore explanations and whatnot. I don't even care if they don't somehow logically justify it, as increased number of gameplay styles and class mechanics >>> realism.

Now the important question is, whether they can successfully implement all of those mechanics in the game in order to create good variety and fun.

Yes, and it is not like there aren't monks in real life, who constantly inflict pain on themselves, seeing it as a way of salvation. We just have to spin this a little, and we have monks who use this pain to empower their bodies.

 

[dunno lah]

So...if I want to psych up a monk in my party right before a battle, I just gotta command someone to hit him until his wounds max out? That sounds kinda OP. Unless the DoT rate is faster than I'm perceiving it to be...

This monk is gonna be a hit or miss among players.

Pretty sure that the Monk's ability to have wound doesn't mean it negates all the strike's damage. So if you, say, want to get 4 wounds, you may need to also get something like 5 health health damage as well as 20 stamina damage (exxagerating a bit, but you see what i mean).

Also, it only provides a 'short term boost', so it makes sense not to also get a DoT in most fights. Of course, getting the wounds ready when you have to HIT hard an enemy from the start (kill a glass canon) might help.

Yeah...I shouldn't worry about OPness when "Balancefag" Sawyer is in charge of it all.

 

[golgepapaz]

Great, so monks will have a super charge combo bar that fills with damage

Already like where is this going..

 

[Zed]

I like the concept of the monk because it makes the unarmed/unarmored monk seem like a better choice because of speed, not static "you can't wear this" rules.

I don't like the concept of the monk because this system with damage stacks and shit only makes sense in a turn-based environment. This is going to fucking suck big dick in RTwP, having to micromanage even the melee combatants like this. For a min-maxer like me it's gonna be a fucking nightmare to play.


As for the cultures, I like the clothing for Dyrwood (generic fantasymedieval stuff) except for the out-of-place leather armor bracelets and Aedyr (roman tunics/toga-inspired stuff). I fucking hate Vailian. What is that fucking shit? Looks like something from a Boy George video. Jxamitl looks like they're wearing some sort of gypsy version of landskapsdräkter.

I wish they would have made more unique clothing for the cultures. These are just ripped from our world and doesn't make much sense. Part of me is thinking "what the fuck are blacks doing in 18th century clothing", but also "what is anyone doing wearing 18th century clothing".

 

[J_C]

I don't like the concept of the monk because this system with damage stacks and shit only makes sense in a turn-based environment. This is going to fucking suck big dick in RTwP, having to micromanage even the melee combatants like this. For a min-maxer like me it's gonna be a fucking nightmare to play.

Min-maxers should fucking die!

 

[Zed]

I don't like the concept of the monk because this system with damage stacks and shit only makes sense in a turn-based environment. This is going to fucking suck big dick in RTwP, having to micromanage even the melee combatants like this. For a min-maxer like me it's gonna be a fucking nightmare to play.

Min-maxers should fucking die!

Even if not min-maxing, it will cause any smart person to pause quite often to be efficient with the wounds system.
In BG2, pausing was for spell-casting and when receiving lots of damage (recuperating). Fighters were pretty much self-going. I don't mind more active abilities on fighters, but this wounds system will trigger a player response every single time the monk is hit.

 

[norolim]

I'm lazy. I'll just copy/paste what I wrote on teh PE forum:

Ohhh...I don't really like this update. The monk is just...I just get the impression that someone (Sawyer?) was trying to be too clever. For me the way the monk works is completely unintuitive. Why would you get stronger when you're getting your ass kicked? Is this some kind of magic? It's not clear. Unless, of course the monk should actually be called the masochist...you know, thriving and at his/her best when in a lot of pain...

Now, I admit the concept is interesting and will add (superfluous in this regard?) sophistication to the combat system, but at the same time it feels very unnatural. For me, at least.

The Culture Concept is OK.

 

[Cynic]

They'll most likely have a wounds counter which you can see quite easily. They can slow the process down by say, minimising how fast you accumulate wounds in combat, or making the really big skills take a large amount of wound points to activate.

Lore wise it can sort of work if you think that a monk just sort of absorbs shit and waits for the best moment to strike. I think wound is a really wrong word for it though, I think it might have been better to call it something like "Perception" and frame it in a way that while the monk is taking some damage, he/she are learning more about their foes weaknesses and can wait for the right time to strike. This also does away with the stupid idea that the monk somehow heals their "wounds" just by smacking a bitch.

 

[Cynic]

Going on from this maybe wearing heavy armour would negatively impact your ability to perceive what's going on as the added stresses of having to carry more weight in combat lessen your natural monktastic instincts.

There's other ways they could have done it, I think the "wounds" way of framing it is the most retarded though from a logical point of view.

 

[Infinitron]

Realismfags. Realismfags never change.

 

[CWagner]

I think there will be quite some opportunities to wear some armor and sometimes weapons. For example in a 2v1 fight it might be better to wear light or medium armor. As there are more of them you will probably still get enough wounds but they won't manage to kill you just as fast. I didn't drink my coffee yet so I'm too tired to think of really good ways to use weapons (and it depends a lot on stats anyway) but I'm sure there are quite some.

I really like what they said about the monk, seems quite flexible.