Obsidian's Pillars of Eternity [BETA RELEASED, GO TO THE NEW THREAD]

[Zero Credibility]

Powers fueled by having the shit beaten out of you. Riiiight. Realism (or maybe that should be verisimilitude) of this concept aside, I can already imagine the effect this is going to have on the gameplay. As the monk gets hit he will accumulate wounds, leading to either constant pausing to micromanage just one character or the ai will just take over and automatically use monk abilities. So it's kind of like Dragon Age again.


Fuck.

 

[norolim]

But soul doesn't sove the problem for me. That ability still feels unnatural in that presented reality. I guess we know too little about it, so I hope I'm wrong.

Oh, and the shaolin example is dumb. Sorry. Shaolin monks, if they actually fought, wouldn't let their enemies cut their limbs of and crush skulls in order to get super mega reatliation power. This is where Infinitron was right and why you don't apply every day realism to those mechancs.

Monks, in PE, seems to be traditional REAL LIFE western monk where things like self-flagellation and self-starvation were very important themes when it came to mastering yourself and communing with the divine.

So, yeah, lorewise it makes perfect sense.

Yes, I can see that this is where they're going with it. But my fear is they are (1) taking it too far, (2) missing the point of what mastering yourself is.

 

[Infinitron]

The idea of loading spells into your mind like bullets and firing them, after which you need to rest 6 hours to reload them, "feels unnatural in the presented reality" of the Forgotten Realms, but we've learned to accept it. These things simply do not matter as much as you imagine that they matter.

 

[Jestai]

. Why does only the monk benefit from being manhandled? Is this magic? If it is, why only monks have access to it? It's all not very clear, right now.

Maybe it's not very clear right now because it's just a concept and you're not playing the actual game with its lore, you fucking moron. Maybe it's magic, maybe it's not. MAYBE YOU WILL FIND OUT AT A LATER DATE?
You don't know anything about the setting, but you sure know that it doesn't make sense just by reading the abilities. GREAT.

I can find 10 explanations for this on top on my head. Example: Gods give them m4g1c p0w3rs when they endure pain when acting in their name. Or the ability to transfer the pain from one flesh to another. Or they trained to channel their adrenaline into whatever they want. Feel free to nitpick and to prove that none of these ideas can work at all if they're developed.

And shut the fuck up with your "masochist" already. It's called a monk, simpleton.

 

[Jestai]

The idea of loading spells into your mind like bullets and firing them, after which you need to rest 6 hours to reload them, "feels unnatural in the presented reality" of the Forgotten Realms, but we've learned to accept it. These things simply do not matter as much as you imagine that they matter.

Also, talking about shit that doesn't make sense, bards and their magic music...

 

[~RAGING BONER~]

I don't understand how a Monk's training which leads them to being able to focus -some- of their damage toward a pre-existing wound feels out of place in a setting we know little to nothing about...

and drawing power from mortification of the flesh? Eurofagean history is full of accounts of saints, monks and nuns having visions and performing miracles after undergoing hardship.


You wanna complain about something REALLY unrealistic? How about Valians being black yet displaying such a high level of cultural sophistication. If we wanted realism they should be putting bones through their noses and wearing grass skirts... because to this day a black culture has never even managed to build a 2 story building, let along a civilized society.

 

[CappenVarra]

Dunno. I dislike the whole "gain charges as consequence of arbitrary gameplay events and expend them to cause other arbitrary gameplay events" thing because I've only seen it in boring MMOs or clickety H&S games (WoW Holy Power, Diablo2 Assassin charge up skills etc.) - but I'll reserve judgment until I see it in action (pun intended). Just this once, because Tim Cain. That said, I never liked monks in mah fantasy games, so the odds of playing one are low anyway...

 

[norolim]

Maybe it's not very clear right now because it's just a concept and you're not playing the actual game

I am commenting on a concept, not teh actual game....

 

[J_C]

But soul doesn't sove the problem for me. That ability still feels unnatural in that presented reality. I guess we know too little about it, so I hope I'm wrong.

Oh, and the shaolin example is dumb. Sorry. Shaolin monks, if they actually fought, wouldn't let their enemies cut their limbs of and crush skulls in order to get super mega reatliation power. This is where Infinitron was right and why you don't apply every day realism to those mechancs.

I didn't use the shaolin example as an example for inflicting wounds to power up. I used it to show you that shaolin monks train their body and soul in a special way, and this makes them some fancy stuff. Now add some fantasy, and you have monks, who use the pain inflicted on them to power up. I don't know what's so hard to understand. This is fantasy land, where people use their souls power to gain different abilities (fighters fight harder, mages do magic etc), and this is written in the lore. Monks using their soul power to use their pain to unleash powerful strikes is nothing special in this setting. It makes as much sense as anything in fantasy.

 

[norolim]

I didn't use the shaolin example as an example for inflicting wounds to power up. I used it to show you that shaolin monks train their body and soul in a special way, and this makes them some fancy stuff. Now add some fantasy, and you have monks, who use the pain inflicted on them to power up. I don't know what's so hard to understand. This is fantasy land, where people use their souls power to gain different abilities (fighters fight harder, mages do magic etc), and this is written in the lore. Monks using their soul power to use their pain to unleash powerful strikes is nothing special in this setting. It makes as much sense as anything in fantasy.

As I said, I see where they're going with it, I just don't like the scale and the exectution. It is just an opinion based on the limited knowledge we have of the lore/system so there's nothing definite about it. I'm not saying the game will be shit, even if it turns out I don't like the monk in the final version.

 

[Roguey]

During my current run through IWD I have it set to autopause after any character gets hit. NBD for me.

Part of me is thinking "what the fuck are blacks doing in 18th century clothing", but also "what is anyone doing wearing 18th century clothing".

http://jesawyer.tumblr.com/post/48927402582/project-eternity-at-first-it-seemed-the-different

The Dyrwood is in the equivalent of a Renaissance/early modern tech level, but even Europe’s own Renaissances didn’t abandon earlier architecture and technology. Swords and armor were used alongside firearms for centuries (as they are in the Dyrwood, where firearms are still uncommon).
Rural communities in the Dyrwood tend to have Romanesque/Norman architecture, with Renaissance features (e.g. domes, symmetrical façades) found in large urban centers. Previous colonial cultures also tried to settle in the Dyrwood and their ruins tend to be more traditionally “Medieval”. In the village concept we released, the buildings are vaguely Romanesque with a few Renaissance features, but they are built adjacent to much older, rougher remnants of a castle and bridges from centuries ago.

 

[SwiftCrack]

I like the concept of the monk because it makes the unarmed/unarmored monk seem like a better choice because of speed, not static "you can't wear this" rules.

I don't like the concept of the monk because this system with damage stacks and shit only makes sense in a turn-based environment. This is going to fucking suck big dick in RTwP, having to micromanage even the melee combatants like this. For a min-maxer like me it's gonna be a fucking nightmare to play.


As for the cultures, I like the clothing for Dyrwood (generic fantasymedieval stuff) except for the out-of-place leather armor bracelets and Aedyr (roman tunics/toga-inspired stuff). I fucking hate Vailian. What is that fucking shit? Looks like something from a Boy George video. Jxamitl looks like they're wearing some sort of gypsy version of landskapsdräkter.

I wish they would have made more unique clothing for the cultures. These are just ripped from our world and doesn't make much sense. Part of me is thinking "what the fuck are blacks doing in 18th century clothing", but also "what is anyone doing wearing 18th century clothing".

This post is a how-to manual for the identification of crippling autism.

 

[Jestai]

Maybe it's not very clear right now because it's just a concept and you're not playing the actual game

I am commenting on a concept, not teh actual game....
Won't address the rest of it, as it's really pointless to argue with a blithering idiot. Go back to BSN.

Maybe you need more information to make sense of the concept? You're already offering to rename a class because you decided that some of its skills don't make sense, at least for "MONKS". You have your D&D hat on and you don't seem to able able to put it off (ie: mages should have stronger versions of this => ???).

Keep on talking about the skills themselves all you like and I might even agree with you. But this "it's not d&d copy/paste so it doesn't make sense" shit needs to go away until we know more about the setting.

 

[Excidium]

These are probably the worst Monk mechanics I've ever seen in an RPG. Just rename the class to masochist or something. Monks should be avoiding attacks, not getting slapped on purpose so they can do a shoryuken.

Ah, i see you want to keep using the Asian monk stereotypes and not the western monk inspiration. Too bad it seems to use the western types of monk here.

What?

 

[Arkeus]

What?

What do you think Western monks are? I'll give you one guess, as it seems you already provided the answer above.

 

[Jestai]

It's not mandatory for a monk to be a martial expert shaolin superstar. Western monks monks are indeed poor slobs that endure, and in enduring grow strong.

 

[Excidium]

It's western because Sawyer said so.

 

[Jestai]

Is he closing his eyes or is he a chink? The answer will define who's right.

 

[FeelTheRads]

Why couldn't they just have been real bros and made it turn based. Seems like everything they are talking about so far will work 100x better in turn based.

life itself would be better if it were turn based...it would all just make so much more "sense".

/Aspie

 

[Infinitron]

Is he closing his eyes or is he a chink? The answer will define who's right.

He's a 'spic.

http://eternity.gamepedia.com/Forton
http://eternity.gamepedia.com/Savannah_human
http://forums.somethingawful.com/sh...rid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=400#post414524664

Savannah Folk are (essentially) mestizo.

 

[uaciaut]

I like the concept of the monk because it makes the unarmed/unarmored monk seem like a better choice because of speed, not static "you can't wear this" rules.

I don't like the concept of the monk because this system with damage stacks and shit only makes sense in a turn-based environment. This is going to fucking suck big dick in RTwP, having to micromanage even the melee combatants like this. For a min-maxer like me it's gonna be a fucking nightmare to play.

You get passives (they released details about one at least) that make use of the wound resource as well so you're practically not wasting resources if you just leave a monk in the front line for a bit because he will be taking damage and thus harnessing more "wounds" and automatically using them due to his passive. My educated guess would be that they want each class to have some micro-management but not really all the time.

As a side note here, why am i not seeing the names of the people that are posting? All i see is registration date instead of names and then everything else is normal D:

 

[Excidium]

As a side note here, why am i not seeing the names of the people that are posting? All i see is registration date instead of names and then everything else is normal D:

Weird, it's only you.

 

[Zed]

You get passives (they released details about one at least) that make use of the wound resource as well so you're practically not wasting resources if you just leave a monk in the front line for a bit because he will be taking damage and thus harnessing more "wounds" and automatically using them due to his passive. My educated guess would be that they want each class to have some micro-management but not really all the time.

You speak sense. I put too much emphasis on the active "2 wounds" skill perhaps.

As a side note here, why am i not seeing the names of the people that are posting? All i see is registration date instead of names and then everything else is normal D:

Not sure what you mean.

 

[logrus]

But soul doesn't sove the problem for me. That ability still feels unnatural in that presented reality. I guess we know too little about it, so I hope I'm wrong.

And D&D monk one-shooting dragon with bare fist feels natural. Yeah, right.

As a lot of Codexers have written - let's not get stuck with D&D stereotypes or low budget kung-fu Asian movies.
Maybe the name of the resource could be changed from "wounds" to something less connected to physcial damage like "pain" or "suffering" to better emphasis monk's abilities tied to the whole souls concept. So monk's spiritual training allows him to endure "pain"/"suffering", overcome them and gain power from that fact. Sort of "What does not kill me, makes me stronger". Sounds pretty cool and connected to the lore.

 

[Tigranes]

So there's two points here, (1) the new monk is unintuitive, (2) the new monk requires too much micromanaging.

(1) I don't see any reasoning behind this made except the point that it's unintuitive because it's new. The stupidest most braindead gamers in the planet are totally fine with the idea that in fighting games and the like you get 'power-ups' of some kind when you get hit. You watch a fucking bar fill up and then you do something to expend that bar. And in terms of setting, again, a monk that 'uncannily dodges' shit is just as 'intuitive' as a monk that, conforming to an equally popular Western image, has trained to withstand a great deal of pain and discomfort. So what's the problem?

(2) While how much micromanaging is required is unknown, I'll be honest, I find it really hard to care about this argument, because even in MOTB I was pausing and micromanaging every second to line up enemies and have One of Many sneak attack. But let me ask: how is keeping track of the wounds you accumulate any more likely to cause a tiresome experience of milisecond combat compared to, say, DA fighters with seven different abilities on time-based cooldown that augment their combat efficiency, or, of course, the time honoured practice of keeping track of your party members' health and injuries? Because the wound system is a simple variant/combination of those things that we all do just fine - and people like you (whoever complained) do just fine without pausing.

*shrug*