Obsidian's Pillars of Eternity [BETA RELEASED, GO TO THE NEW THREAD]

[Delterius]

I'm not following Sawyerism as well as Melnormes seem to, but I'm hoping Sawyer is only planning to toss away the dump stat. Instead of streamlining those we actually like to stack. As far as the Infinity Engine goes, it never felt like any of the attibutes were useless in theory - just that content doesn't support them very well (CHA), while some of the PnP bonuses from others never were implemented (WIS).

 

[Sensuki]

I'm a bit worried about that actually.

Can totally see it being 3 or 4 stats such as

Physical stat
Cunning/Perception stat
Mental stat

or

Physical stat
Cunning/Perception stat
Knowledge/Intelligence stat
Influence/Persuasion/Charisma-y stat

But I'd prefer 6 but the choice between them is actually interesting.

 

[Arkeus]

I think they are going to do a:
Will Stat (helps with stamina amongst other soul stuff).
Ingenuity Stat (allows a greater breadth of active abilities)
Endurance stat (both str and end are there)
Skill Stat (more indepth Dex)

 

[tuluse]

I bet there is no charisma like attribute. Sawyer us on record as not liking speech skills, so why would he like the speech attribute?

 

[Infinitron]

I bet there is no charisma like attribute. Sawyer us on record as not liking speech skills, so why would he like the speech attribute?

He's on record saying he DOES support the concept of a Charisma stat since it has other functions as well (Sorcerer spellcasting, etc). However, I could see it being folded into something else in PE.

 

[Sensuki]

http://forums.somethingawful.com/sh...rid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=423#post416204402

Any class can advance their Stealth skill and no class is penalized for advancing any skill, but all classes start with some inherent skill bonuses. If a rogue continually puts points into Stealth, they will always stay ahead of a character who lacks the initial bonus and does the same. A party of characters with high Stealth can collectively get pretty close to enemies before they are alerted, but generally only the highest Stealth characters can get within striking range before they are detected. If I haven't mentioned it before, the Stealth/detection system is deterministic, not random, and compares a character's Stealth skill to potential targets to determine how close they can get before they are (always) detected.

The magical abilities that rogues gain access to are all optional Talents, so if you want to play a "mundane" rogue who just augments their general murdering skills, you can do it.

 

[Space Satan]

I fear the shadows of Dragon Age 2 and Diablo III looming over attributes.
I really want to build chars in different ways. Heavy hitter fighter, tank damage soaker fighter, attck speed rogue or crit rogue. Generally if you set attribute system right, then different build is no problem and main problem lies in balancing the skills. But DA2 and AD&D stats are awful.

 

[Space Satan]

I bet there is no charisma like attribute. Sawyer us on record as not liking speech skills, so why would he like the speech attribute?

Isn't that Avelonne said hat there will be no skills like Persuasion or Coercion, that you should level to access certain dialogue options? He said that outcome should be decided by your choices, not some conversation skills.

 

[Infinitron]

JESawyer 2m
No, not like Diablo. All Diablos have irregular ability score application between classes and all Diablos have dump stats.

 

[Sensuki]

Had that guy actually played Diablo 2?

Most ARPGs are Str and Dex only to meet item pre-reqs, then the rest into Health.

 

[Space Satan]

Still, Popamole cancer will mimic and try to find its way inside PE

 

[Brotherman Bill]

JESawyer 2m
No, not like Diablo. All Diablos have irregular ability score application between classes and all Diablos have dump stats.

 

[Mrowak]

I bet there is no charisma like attribute. Sawyer us on record as not liking speech skills, so why would he like the speech attribute?

Isn't that Avelonne said hat there will be no skills like Persuasion or Coercion, that you should level to access certain dialogue options? He said that outcome should be decided by your choices, not some conversation skills.

Hmm... that's actually a good thing... or it might be depending on how they will pull that off. I always felt it was quite cheap that the pathways in gameplay opened through arbitrary stats as opposed to gameplay decisions. Reactivity is cool and all, but I prefer when it comes up with the respect to what you actually do.

Having said that, they could go wrong if they do not introduce skills, abilities and features which could facilitate greater interactivity through character progression.

 

[Sensuki]

J.E. Sawyer 21m

It's not the number of Attributes that is unconventional, but how they are applied to derived statistics. It's more "gamist" than "simulationist". D&D's ability score system tries to be both and, IMO, fails because of it.

 

[AN4RCHID]

Oh, thank christ.

I wonder what he's talking about. Maybe attributes are being designed to be equally useful for all classes?

 

[Roguey]

Updated my sig. And not quite Eternity-related but helping along with career-suicide:

i had a lot of problems with the design and gameplay choices bioware made, but EA really just shot the company in the head with a bolt gun.

publisher buyouts: not even once.
...
being a publisher-owned dev and away from the publisher HQ combines the worst elements of being independent and publisher-owned. the publisher has no trust in what you're doing and hurls mid-level managers and supervisors at you while they main complete authority over resources and the existence of the studio/project as a whole. because publisher-owned dev studios are also part of a larger pool of employees, the publisher has more incentive to treat those studios and their devs like fungible goods. that's how they treat independent devs as well, but independent devs can at least attempt to use competition to their advantage (usually failing in the process).

quoted for posterity you'll never work in this industry again after Bethesda buys out obsidian for failing to meet fallout: new Miami benchmarks

the mobile market and emerging mid-core market hopefully mean that devs who are chewed up in the grinder of QUADRUPLE A publisher-driven game dev can flip everyone off and start small companies

I fear the shadows of Dragon Age 2 and Diablo III looming over attributes.
I really want to build chars in different ways. Heavy hitter fighter, tank damage soaker fighter, attck speed rogue or crit rogue. Generally if you set attribute system right, then different build is no problem and main problem lies in balancing the skills. But DA2 and AD&D stats are awful.

This isn't like DA2 at all because that's a game where each class has four dump stats. Sawyer wants every stat to have a tangible benefit/drawback for every class.

 

[Infinitron]

Post the full version and context of that first quote, Roguey.

 

[tuluse]

What's the source for those quotes?

Josh seems to be going out on a pretty thin limb there since Feargus wants that publisher money.

 

[Sensuki]

Probably that YCS thing

Do I want to pay $10 to use SA Search function ? Nah.

 

[Roguey]

YCS off-site. He's mentioned before he has nothing to hide so it's fine for me to paste whatever he says wherever.

Post the full version and context of that first quote, Roguey.

developers (not QA) make good money but generally work more like 50-60 hour weeks.

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/167355/

the thing about canadian game devs says they make on average $72 grand and when i see ads for bioware on the job bank here its usually $90-120 grand

Then what I quoted. I didn't cut out anything, he just wrote another post as a follow-up without replying to anyone in particular.

 

[Blaine]

All classes will be perfectly balanced for combat, will have the exact same DPS output (though in different dispersal patterns), will receive the same skill points and access to the same pool of support skills, and will all use the same set of attributes with no dump stats.

Project: Homogeneity, can't wait!

Nah, I'm sure it'll be a fine game despite the pile of overwrought, over-thought garbage Sawyer's ego will be unleashing on an unsuspecting public.

Who's your source, Magic Eight Ball? It's Roguey, isn't it?

 

[Sensuki]

This actually gives me a bit of cause for concern

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/63851-update-54-art-update-work-is-in-progress/page-23#entry1337809

 

[Cursed Platypus]

This mockup is not far from where we are going with our revisions.

To correct one statement you made: it's not true that the majority of players will play at 1920x1080, but more polled Steam players play at that res than any other. If you combine 1920x1080 with 1336x768, those two blocks form a majority. That's why we're constantly checking both 1920x1080 as well as 1280x720, the latter of which will be our lowest supported resolution.

 

[Blaine]

I personally don't care what the UI looks like, just so long as it's functional and not an eyesore. The game will support mods, and the UI will likely be a popular element to mod.

 

[Roguey]

With tweaks, I can live with that.

Allow me to make the combat log bigger you fuckers.

Urgh the guy who made that mockup thinks combat logs are unnecessary because "this isn't D&D" and it isn't "immersive" urgggggh herrrrrrrrrblllllargahle