Obsidian's Pillars of Eternity [BETA RELEASED, GO TO THE NEW THREAD]

[AN4RCHID]

In fact, letting players turn on/off these options as they like sound infinitely better than an arbitrary Expert-mode.

No, fuck that. I don't want to be constantly tempted to turn on a quest compass whenever I'm stuck. It's the game designers job to keep the game difficult, not mine. If you want to play with house rules then have at it, but there still need to be official difficulty modes to legitimize accomplishments.

 

[tuluse]

what

this constant trickle interesting info on formspring/reddit/forums/etc is about as far from structured pr as you can get. any pr guy would be tearing their hair out right

e: also considering the size of IE dungeons, it was always going to be either regenning stamina, buckets of potions or buckets of heal spells. regeneration is by far the most elegant of the three.

SA is behind a pay wall, so Sawyer is intentionally limiting the audience (even if he knows and doesn't care that it will get out).

 

[tuluse]

No, fuck that. I don't want to be constantly tempted to turn on a quest compass whenever I'm stuck. It's the game designers job to keep the game difficult, not mine. If you want to play with house rules then have at it, but there still need to be official difficulty modes to legitimize accomplishments.

That's no different that being able to switch down to easy when you come across a boss fight you can't get past.

I think Sawyer has said that some of the switches will be permanent choices, you pick when you start a new game and can't switch them back.

 

[Brother None]

SA is behind a pay wall, so Sawyer is intentionally limiting the audience (even if he knows and doesn't care that it will get out).

Nah, he just likes the place. Which to be fair isn't as bad as I used to think. He posts on other, public forums too, after all.

It's too bad the Obsidianites don't post on the Codex anymore.

 

[Arkeus]

That's no different that being able to switch down to easy when you come across a boss fight you can't get past.

I think Sawyer has said that some of the switches will be permanent choices, you pick when you start a new game and can't switch them back.

Expert mode forces you to have everything switched on and you can't switch them off (it's an option you pick at the beginning of the game), but i don't know if there is any other 'smaller' locking options.

 

[AN4RCHID]

That's no different that being able to switch down to easy when you come across a boss fight you can't get past.

And that's shit and games shouldn't allow it, anymore than they should allow skipping combat altogether. If you want to play on easy mode, restart and play on easy mode. If you don't want to restart, man the fuck up and beat it on hard. If you made some mistakes that make it impossible to beat on hard, good, you've learned a valuable lesson - now restart with that advance knowledge.

 

[coffeetable]

In fact, letting players turn on/off these options as they like sound infinitely better than an arbitrary Expert-mode.

No, fuck that. I don't want to be constantly tempted to turn on a quest compass whenever I'm stuck. It's the game designers job to keep the game difficult, not mine. If you want to play with house rules then have at it, but there still need to be official difficulty modes to legitimize accomplishments.

im trying to decide if i consider you more of a child because of your desire to see videogame achievements "legitimized", or because you lack the willpower to not turn the quest compass on

 

[coffeetable]

PEOPLE WHO PLAY GAMES DIFFERENTLY TO ME ARE DOING IT WRONG

LET ME TELL YOU HOW TO HAVE FUN. YOU'RE STUCK?? RESTART THE GAME, TAHT'S HOW YOU HAVE FUN

 

[Starym]

That's no different that being able to switch down to easy when you come across a boss fight you can't get past.

I think Sawyer has said that some of the switches will be permanent choices, you pick when you start a new game and can't switch them back.

Expert mode forces you to have everything switched on and you can't switch them off (it's an option you pick at the beginning of the game), but i don't know if there is any other 'smaller' locking options.

At the very least there's the ironman mode which obviously can't be turned off, so presumably there might be others as well.

That's no different that being able to switch down to easy when you come across a boss fight you can't get past.

And that's shit and games shouldn't allow it, anymore than they should allow skipping combat altogether. If you want to play on easy mode, restart and play on easy mode. If you don't want to restart, man the fuck up and beat it on hard. If you made some mistakes that make it impossible to beat on hard, good, you've learned a valuable lesson - now restart with that advance knowledge.

So you think that getting near the end of a game you're enjoying on hard, getting to the last/near last boss (and I'm not talking specifically RPGs here either, so the whole "you fucked up your build" thing doesn't apply) and finding out the designers WAY overtuned him and he's just stupidly hard means you have to restart the whole game and spend another 10-30 hours (of boring gameplay on normal or easy) to see the end? I mean I hate these "I want to skip combat" retarded arguments as much as the next guy but come on, you're taking it the utmost extreme here.

 

[AN4RCHID]

So you think that getting near the end of a game you're enjoying on hard, getting to the last/near last boss (and I'm not talking specifically RPGs here either, so the whole "you fucked up your build" thing doesn't apply) and finding out the designers WAY overtuned him and he's just stupidly hard means you have to restart the whole game and spend another 10-30 hours (of boring gameplay on normal or easy) to see the end? I mean I hate these "I want to skip combat" retarded arguments as much as the next guy but come on, you're taking it the utmost extreme here.

If the final boss is so difficult that it's literally unbeatable by a player who completed everything up to that point, you're talking about a completely broken game. I don't think difficulty settings should be designed with the assumption that the developers don't know what they're doing.

 

[Arkeus]

If the final boss is so difficult that it's literally unbeatable by a player who completed everything up to that point, you're talking about a completely broken game. I don't think difficulty settings should be designed with the assumption that the developers don't know what they're doing.

I think this was a direct refernece to NWN2:SoZ, and i gotta admit that killing the overpowered last boss was a 'nice' challenge.

 

[CappenVarra]

That's actually pretty similar to the RTwP default of "when you come across a boss fight that can't be auto-won by AI, just pause more and micromanage it". RTwP, RTwP never changes...

 

[tuluse]

And that's shit and games shouldn't allow it, anymore than they should allow skipping combat altogether. If you want to play on easy mode, restart and play on easy mode. If you don't want to restart, man the fuck up and beat it on hard. If you made some mistakes that make it impossible to beat on hard, good, you've learned a valuable lesson - now restart with that advance knowledge.

That's fine, but it doesn't make PE different from other games, so I don't see much point in bitching about it.

 

[Zetor]

OK, RTWP gurus (Roguey): what's the best way to actually make the more complex/difficult encounters enjoyable in BG2 / IWD1-2 (once the party is at least mid-level and each character has a lot of abilities)? I know that there's pause at EOT, but... yeah, no. Especially since in my experience you sometimes need to reposition your characters multiple times within one round, not to mention managing hide in shadows / backstabs for thief characters.

 

[AN4RCHID]

That's fine, but it doesn't make PE different from other games, so I don't see much point in bitching about it.

Well actually it is different from most modern games, since you won't be able to turn off Expert mode. I think that's great, not bitching about it.

 

[Delterius]

In fact, letting players turn on/off these options as they like sound infinitely better than an arbitrary Expert-mode.

No, fuck that. I don't want to be constantly tempted to turn on a quest compass whenever I'm stuck. It's the game designers job to keep the game difficult, not mine. If you want to play with house rules then have at it, but there still need to be official difficulty modes to legitimize accomplishments.

As if that's the worst part. If Skyrim taught us anything, is that a toggle diminishes the need to make both sides of the coin viable. Its impossible to play that game without the quest markers, no matter how much the hype machine screams 'exploration' as a big focus of the game.

 

[Grunker]

I don't want to be constantly tempted to turn on a quest compass whenever I'm stuck.

There's an easy solution even to 'sperging though: You set these things before the game starts, and then they're locked in. That was actually my original suggestion, but I'm glad you gave me a laugh anyway.

 

[AN4RCHID]

I guess I misinterpreted "letting players turn on/off these options as they like sound infinitely better than an arbitrary Expert-mode."

 

[DraQ]

In fact, letting players turn on/off these options as they like sound infinitely better than an arbitrary Expert-mode.

No, fuck that. I don't want to be constantly tempted to turn on a quest compass whenever I'm stuck. It's the game designers job to keep the game difficult, not mine. If you want to play with house rules then have at it, but there still need to be official difficulty modes to legitimize accomplishments.

As if that's the worst part. If Skyrim taught us anything, is that a toggle diminishes the need to make both sides of the coin viable. Its impossible to play that game without the quest markers, no matter how much the hype machine screams 'exploration' as a big focus of the game.

You can, however, turn off the compass along with exploration spoilers and markers altogether, enhancing allowing exploration, and combined clunkiness of the interface and uselessness of map for short distance searches encourages using your own eyes and brain as much as possible.

 

[Delterius]

You mean hiking throught the entirety of Skyrim before doing most every quest? Because the quest system and the world design most often do not offer alternatives to the compass or previous knowledge of the world.

 

[DraQ]

You mean hiking throught the entirety of Skyrim before doing most every quest?

Nope, checking the journal, checking the map for general directions, then navigating the world while minimizing the use of horrid UI elements and low-poly 3D map, while also not having compass (thanks to mod).

It's not really on par with having to find Urshilaku Astral Burial, but still...

 

[Crooked Bee]

lol one post away from being permabanned from Something Awful. I've seen people on there underpost more than me and they don't even get banned for it.

Welcome to SomethingAwful Mods are very selective there, so it's best just to relax and take it easy (and eschew one-liners whenever possible).

Also banned, not permabanned. They only permaban when the offense is particularly great.

 

[DraQ]

Why the fuck would anyone ever use paywall forums?

 

[Crooked Bee]

Why the fuck would anyone ever use paywall forums?

In my case that's because they have really great Let's Plays and $10-15 basically means nothing to me.

Also the Games forum itself is pretty good, but I'm aware I'm in the minority on that one here.

 

[Starym]

So you think that getting near the end of a game you're enjoying on hard, getting to the last/near last boss (and I'm not talking specifically RPGs here either, so the whole "you fucked up your build" thing doesn't apply) and finding out the designers WAY overtuned him and he's just stupidly hard means you have to restart the whole game and spend another 10-30 hours (of boring gameplay on normal or easy) to see the end? I mean I hate these "I want to skip combat" retarded arguments as much as the next guy but come on, you're taking it the utmost extreme here.

If the final boss is so difficult that it's literally unbeatable by a player who completed everything up to that point, you're talking about a completely broken game. I don't think difficulty settings should be designed with the assumption that the developers don't know what they're doing.

I was primarily talking from my own and friends' perspective. I'd like to think I'm pretty good at most games, play them a highest difficulty etc etc, but I have run across MANY that have huge spikes in certain areas that are indeed much harder than anything previous to them and then the difficulty dies down again. Now, personally I just try to play through that until I beat it or get so frustrated that I quit the game and don't play it again. But if I can reduce the difficulty for that one fight and then return it afterwards (hell it doesn't even have to be a particularly difficult boss/encounter, can be just something that annoys a player for whatever reason) it's much better both for me and for the developers as I get to see the rest of the game.

If a game is truly excellently designed and has no bumps in difficulty etc then I agree with you that reducing difficulty isn't really necessary but the number of such games is very very small. Also, games have very varied difficulty on "hard" or whatever the most difficult setting is and it isn't immediately apparent when you start the game so with your system a LOT of people would start a game on hard (because the last few games they played on that difficulty were great for them), play a few hours and then realize that whoops, this one is significantly harder - hello restart. And then after a few experiences like that they wouldn't ever select Hard and would always go for normal, making them become shittier and shittier gamers, and so devs cater to them etc etc decline and so forth.