Obsidian's Pillars of Eternity [BETA RELEASED, GO TO THE NEW THREAD]

[Sensuki]

Crafting: Craft items that help you in combat

Aw shucks, it's a 1 person skill, better add something else to it: Mastur Weapon Sharpenur and Armur Polishur!

That is Hormalakh's point I believe.

Out of those: Concentration and perhaps Use Magic Device are useful on more than one character, the rest are one person per party skills.

Josh and Tim are trying to turn 1-man skills into everyman skills, and instead of re-working the skill, they just slap on an abstract per-character combat bonus. The action 'crafting' only needs to be performed by one character. The character with the highest crafting skill will be the only one making items, anyone else who takes crafting is taking it for 'gear maintenance', these characters will never craft an item.

I imagine Herbalism is designed in the same manner, it's probably going to give you the same bonus as F:NV's Survival skill. Herbalism is the same, it does not require more than one person to know which herbs are which, only the character with the highest Herbalism score will be doing any Herb gathering or identifying, any other character that takes the skill will take it for the increase in consumable duration.

That is not a fix to skills.

 

[Infinitron]

That is not a fix to skills.

It is a fix. It's just a fix that you don't like because it feels fake, tacky and hackish to you.

Has anybody even confirmed that PE will have a skill named "Herbalism"?

 

[Liston]

That is not a fix to skills.

Se just to be clear you want to fix the skills without changing them? How else do you imagine to make crafting viable to more than one character without adding something that is, you know, viable for more than one character?

 

[Sensuki]

Their current skill system isn't equipped to do that. What they have done is decided on some design objectives, taken how skills work in D&D, copy-pasta, done some streamlining and then probably hit the same brick wall they have with D&D skills and in order to fulfill their design objectives tacked on some abstractions so that the 'skill' has everything it needs.

Points in crafting on two people does absolutely nothing towards making items (you know, the whole point of crafting). Absolutely nothing. What they should do is design a system that rewards taking skills like this on multiple characters by effecting the skill action itself.

 

[buzz]

How the hell do you people stand reading and posting in this threads o_O? It slowly sucks any sense of excitement and fun about the games and I'm very afraid for the possible mixed reception PE and others might get because of minor design changes like this one.

I've been reading the past 10 or so pages where you argue about stuff such as the viability of non-combat skills for more than 1 member of the party (which is a non-issue for me because that's the fucking point of having a party, complementary skills and all that) and I feel a little dead inside . I wasn't here when Fallout or IE games were hyped and made, but did the fans nitpick in similar manner back then as well? It also probably doesn't help that we get minuscule details about everything in the game thanks to the way kickstarter and the demand for updates work.

 

[Sensuki]

What do you think would happen if people never disagreed ? How would you ever know if you were wrong ? How would you ever improve ?

In contrast I have really enjoyed the last 10 pages or so, and every disagreement someone has had with me has given me a point to think about to further improve my argument. I have a 2000 word essay ready for Josh Sawyer when I'm unbanned from Something Awful

 

[Infinitron]

Avellone thinks PE's system would translate to PnP: http://www.strategyinformer.com/news/23853/project-eternity-would-translate-to-pen-and-paper

That reminds me, they ought to think of a catchy name for the system they're inventing.

 

[Blaine]

Sensuki
The trouble with Codex discussions is that there are very few neutral mediators, and far too many agenda-driven bullshit artists who've honed their skills at twisting, perverting, and spin-doctoring any issue into an unrecognizable mishmash of biased gobbledegook designed to "prove" that their opinion is the best and most correct one.

 

[Logic_error]

Avellone thinks PE's system would translate to PnP: http://www.strategyinformer.com/news/23853/project-eternity-would-translate-to-pen-and-paper

That reminds me, they ought to think of a catchy name for the system they're inventing.

DnD 4E?

 

[Sensuki]

Sensuki
The trouble with Codex discussions is that there are very few neutral mediators, and far too many agenda-driven bullshit artists who've honed their skills at twisting, perverting, and spin-doctoring any issue into an unrecognizable mishmash of biased gobbledegook designed to "prove" that their opinion is the best and most correct one.

Do you find it difficult to notice the difference ? Some people on the opposite side of the fence to me have made some valid points, and I think after considering their view I have been able to formulate my opinion much better considering some of the points I missed that they pointed out.

 

[Blaine]

Do you find it difficult to notice the difference ? Some people on the opposite side of the fence to me have made some valid points, and I think after considering their view I have been able to formulate my opinion much better considering some of the points I missed that they pointed out.

If a discussion's been run into the ground for days, then yes, I typically lose the ability to separate the wheat from the chaff... kind of like how a word starts to sound strange if you repeat it dozens of times. There's a technical term for that, but I can't quite recall what it is.

 

[Aeschylus]

If a discussion's been run into the ground for days, then yes, I typically lose the ability to separate the wheat from the chaff... kind of like how a word starts to sound strange if you repeat it dozens of times. There's a technical term for that, but I can't quite recall what it is.

Semantic satiation is the linguistic/psychological term.

 

[Surf Solar]

I still support megathreads, but I now think we should have opened a separate Project Eternity discussion forum on the Codex. There's clearly a demand for it, to a much greater degree than for the other Kickstarter games.

It's not too late to do that you know

 

[Zed]

They should call it Dragons & Dungeons.

How the hell do you people stand reading and posting in this threads o_O? It slowly sucks any sense of excitement and fun about the games and I'm very afraid for the possible mixed reception PE and others might get because of minor design changes like this one.

I've been reading the past 10 or so pages where you argue about stuff such as the viability of non-combat skills for more than 1 member of the party (which is a non-issue for me because that's the fucking point of having a party, complementary skills and all that) and I feel a little dead inside . I wasn't here when Fallout or IE games were hyped and made, but did the fans nitpick in similar manner back then as well? It also probably doesn't help that we get minuscule details about everything in the game thanks to the way kickstarter and the demand for updates work.

Critiquing and disliking certain design decisions is not the same as holding the entire product in antipathy. I'm super pumped for PE. But fuck crafting, man. Monks sound stupid as hell, durability and item degradation is a tiresome feature in every game that has it and they follow stupid guidelines for creating their UI.

Still gonna be the best CRPG I've ever played.

 

[Rake]

I have a 2000 word essay ready for Josh Sawyer when I'm unbanned from Something Awful

Just PM him in Obsidian forums. Chances are he will answer.

 

[Rake]

Critiquing and disliking certain design decisions is not the same as holding the entire product in antipathy. I'm super pumped for PE. But fuck crafting, man. Monks sound stupid as hell, durability and item degradation is a tiresome feature in every game that has it and they follow stupid guidelines for creating their UI.

Still gonna be the best CRPG I've ever played.

Spot on.
As for the UI, i don't know. They are still going to have a solid UI no matter what minimalist-prefering subhumans ask.
I reread the update and all Adam said is that they will make the UI more compact so it takes less vertical space.

Not what i would have done but not the end of the world either. Sawyer prefers IWD2 and PS:T UI across the bottom of the screen to BGT and IWD UI so it can't be helped.

 

[Sensuki]

Just PM him in Obsidian forums. Chances are he will answer.

I posted it on the Obsidian forums instead. That way one of their other goonies will read it and forward it on.

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/64...with-crafting-and-skills-in-project-eternity/ - bash my derp essay writing skills

 

[Zed]

Another Rezzed interview with MCA
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-07-05-project-eternity-as-a-series-could-run-for-eternity

 

[Liston]

Another Rezzed interview with MCA
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-07-05-project-eternity-as-a-series-could-run-for-eternity

The whole article is mixture of conjecture of the author and MCA's statements, without being clear which is which. Probably intentionally so in order to stir shit up and connect it with current Double Fine news. I'm still not sure if MCA was talking about the squeal (new game) or the expansion they promised, if they don't make expansion they better be prepared for a huge shitstorm. Although it does sound like that he was saying that if PE don't earn ~$4 millions there will be no expansion. Whatever is the case putting expansion as kickstarter reward was a really bad idea.

 

[Tigranes]

I don't know what you're on about. Its crystal clear which bits quote Chris dirextly and he says explicitly it's the sequel whose existence dependa on sales, amd that theys be making tje xpack as soon as PE is shipped?

 

[Liston]

I don't know what you're on about. Its crystal clear which bits quote Chris dirextly and he says explicitly it's the sequel whose existence dependa on sales, amd that theys be making tje xpack as soon as PE is shipped?

I was exaggerating but there was a lot of descriptions of his words and his intentions instead of quotations. For example:

"If the first game does well enough and generates enough profit beyond the backer amounts we got..." 'Well, then it will happen,' were the words Avellone intimated but left unsaid.

And you are right, I'm retarded and on a second read it is clear that squeal is in question while expansion is certain.

 

[Tigranes]

Man, my post was pretty badly inflicted with phonepostitis. Anyway, agree on both.

 

[Rake]

 

[Infinitron]

Proof that Tim Cain forced this implementation of Crafting on poor Josh Sawyer. :whereisyourgodnow:

 

[Hormalakh]

As I expected, he's making all non-combat skills have systemic applications. Whether these are always combat-related, it's still too early to say. I actually don't have an issue with this. It follows from his design philosophy that every choice should benefit the player, no matter how insignificantly.