Obsidian's Pillars of Eternity [BETA RELEASED, GO TO THE NEW THREAD]

[Excidium]

This argument is more retarded than the last one about wizard swords.

How you people manage to argue over fictional stuff not knowing how it works in the game's fiction is beyond me

 

[Clockwork Knight]

blah blah

That's a lot of text to say what amounts to "no, ur wrong".

 

[Delterius]

Not even in D&D settings ressurection is as easy and widespread a you people are saying. And clerics alone have like 3~4 spells that deal with just that...

Which D&D settings are we talking about? Those of the handbooks, those of the thousands of high fantasy adventures that just pile up or those that we actually see in a D&D adaptation like BG, where resurrection cost 100gp?

 

[Excidium]

BG, where resurrection cost 100gp?

Yeah, same games where general shops in small villages sell +2 weapons and where you can find stores entirely dedicated to selling legendary items. BG kinda went full retarded with magical items, even more so than actual D&D. You can get a +1 weapon before you even leave the tutorial...

 

[SuicideBunny]

The impact of not having people die before they can be helped is going to be fucking humongous.

Currently we are not far from being able to cure shit like beheading, but I expect it to remain pretty lethal due to narrow time frame when the help can be administered. Suddenly resurrection.

how is that any different than increased life expectancy due to better living standards and health care?

 

[Grunker]

BG, where resurrection cost 100gp?

Yeah, same games where general shops in small villages sell +2 weapons and where you can find stores entirely dedicated to selling legendary items. BG kinda went full retarded with magical items.

Not really, at least progression wise. Sure, there was an overabundance of +3 swords when you no longer cared about +3 swords. The fact was that BG has a huge list of diverse weapons that weren't just tiered upgrades. Often it made sense to use a weapon with a worse enchantment bonus because it had nifty effects.

I also feel like BG1 was pretty awesome even in the "keeping with the fiction thing."

Honestly though I think a discussion of this is completely irrelevant. If anything BG2 showed how much more important magic weapons are for progression and system mechanics that for some autistic fantasy realism argument to make sense.

In general, people arguing about strict world consistency in high fantasy settings astound me. "Oh no, ressurection in D&D breaks the fiction!" Yeah, no shit Sherlock, so does my Bag of Endless Chickens. It's going to make me Faerûn's first fast food chain owner. Good thing the D&D worlds were created for groups of six people delving into dungeons, killing and looting, and not for complex geopolitical population statistics. Now get the fuck out of my fun, 'sperger.

 

[Delterius]

Its not that the mechanics must be changed to fit the lore. Or that the lore must be changed to fit the mechanics. Rather that they should fit one another. I won't deny the fun I myself had in BG, but one might say that when things like Resurrection are dealt with more care, then we could be looking at the foundation of good fiction.

 

[Gozma]

What's the excuse for not going with full Might and Magic whacky hijinks anti-worldbuilding if you aren't gonna try to integrate the world and the mechanics?

 

[Grunker]

Its not that the mechanics must be changed to fit the lore. Or that the lore must be changed to fit the mechanics. Rather that they should fit one another. I won't deny the fun I myself had in BG, but one might say that when things like Resurrection are dealt with more care, then we could be looking at the foundation of good fiction.

yeah, man, 20 minute chain lightning storms really made me feel the pain of the nameless one

also, saying stuff about fictional consistency only to bring up a setting where the entire point is a complete lack of possibility ceiling and consistency to deconstruct settings without possibility ceilings and consistency is kind of retarded

So to repeat: when the point is swashbuckling adventure, dungeon crawling and the evil god of destruction vs everyone else, it doesn't matter two shits if resurrection would create an implausible political instability.

What's the excuse for not going with full Might and Magic whacky hijinks anti-worldbuilding if you aren't gonna try to integrate the world and the mechanics?

Not striving for 360 degree realism is now a complete lack of world-mechanics integration. I guess that's why Sawyer just proposed Flying Balls of Teddy Bear Snot as a level 5 Wizard spell.

Jesus people get some fucking perspective.

This is why I hate nerds. The same people that will consume endless amounts of horrible fantasy writing from every second rate author out there will argue for hours on end about the effects of Glitterdust on the global climate of the Forgotten Realms. Gimme a fucking break.

 

[Infinitron]

I love it when Grunker goes on these foul-mouthed verbal rampages at 4 AM.

 

[Blaine]

Grunker
Dweebs/dorks ≠ nerds; nerds are actually smart. Not that nerds can't also be dweebs/dorks, mind you.

 

[Gozma]

Seriously I haven't read anything more than like the last page, I'm not trying to pull the Codex political compass somewhere. As a theoretical question, what's the reason to try to have it both ways instead of going full M&M/Roguelike/whatever silliness if you want really toyish mechanics?

 

[Grunker]

I love it when Grunker goes on these foul-mouthed verbal rampages at 4 AM.

Summer holidays at Uni is a mix of drinking, dancing, gaming and boring downtimes where all your cool abilities are on cooldown and you're forced to write on some random internet forum or go to sleep. What I am trying to say is that my holidays are designed by Bethesda and the Codex is a loading screen.

Grunker
Dweebs/dorks ≠ nerds; nerds are actually smart. Not that nerds can't also be dweebs/dorks, mind you.

In Denmark we don't have all your nifty distinctions. Here it's just 'nerd'. The dictionary definition is so wide it could embrace a nigger due to his Nicki Minaj obsession. In my experience derogatory terms generally rise in quality the more people feel targeted by them... perhaps that's why I like 'retard' so much (or, you know, just lack of a proper English vocabulary)

what's the reason to try to have it both ways instead of going full M&M/Roguelike/whatever silliness if you want really toyish mechanics?

There is no "both ways". World building and fictional consistency is not a question of WOO, NO CEILING vs. 1:1 REALISM WITH COMPLETE CONSISTENCY. That's why this entire discussion is so pointless. What's the point with Project: Eternity? Good ol' fantasy rumping, perhaps with an honest-to-God pondersome question/theme or two thrown into the mix? Well, then, does a bit of ressurection hurt anything? Not really, no. Fictions don't have to discuss every implication of everything in them. Indeed if they did, any fiction ever would be the subject of (accurate) criticism.

Whether P:E itself deals in topics that will get crushed under lack of consistency because Wizards have two-handed mauls and the local Cleric ressurrects you for a blowjob and an "Amen!" is a matter which we won't know shit about until we've lived the tale.

 

[Delterius]

also, saying stuff about fictional consistency only to bring up a setting where the entire point is a complete lack of possibility ceiling and consistency to deconstruct settings without possibility ceilings and consistency is kind of retarded

Well, I didn't really mean to talk about setting consistency, just about how death, if its actually a thing, could be treated differently. If not, then I don't see much point in mere busywork.

But frankly, I just wanted to post Guido's face. And I am surprised someone else hadn't already.

 

[Excidium]

Well, then, does a bit of ressurection hurt anything? Not really, no. Fictions don't have to discuss every implication of everything in them. Indeed if they did, any fiction ever would be the subject of (accurate) criticism.

It's important for a setting with magic to touch that issue along with other crazy stuff like teleporting, immortality and what not. WHEN they do then we argue if it's cool or lazy or doesn't matter because it's just a game where you get quests and kill stuff and we shouldn't put too much thought where developers put none

 

[DraQ]

how is that any different than increased life expectancy due to better living standards and health care?

Increased life expectancy won't help you if someone decides to tear off your head and shit down your neck. Resurrection, OTOH, will.

If you want to have any sort of resurrection, you need to manage your ripple effects with exceptional care.

Plus, better living standards and healthcare don't really mesh with your typical fantasy.

Good thing the D&D worlds were created for groups of six people delving into dungeons, killing and looting, and not for complex geopolitical population statistics.

So, by retards, for retards?

What's the excuse for not going with full Might and Magic whacky hijinks anti-worldbuilding if you aren't gonna try to integrate the world and the mechanics?

This.

If you don't want to make a convincing conworld, then why not go the route of full cheesefest like Wizardry 8 or Divinity series? At least it was entertaining.

yeah, man, 20 minute chain lightning storms really made me feel the pain of the nameless one

Did you just use "baaaw people shooting lightning from their fingers is unrealistic therefore everything goes" argument?

If everything goes, you don't need a setting or game. You need a good acid trip.

deconstruct

Keyword.

So to repeat: when the point is swashbuckling adventure, dungeon crawling and the evil god of destruction vs everyone else

Then the retards will have the most fun while also deluding themselves that they are monocled gentlemen savouring cerebral genre above the tastes of common rabble.

360 degree realism

Using your favourite meaningless buzzword again, I see.
Have fun.

This is why I hate nerds.

Not every scrawny/fat, socially inept kid with glasses is an actual nerd.

In Denmark we don't have all your nifty distinctions. Here it's just 'nerd'.

And here in Poland we don't really delineate nerds all that much from everyone else.

 

[Duraframe300]

Not really, no. The impact of being able to quickly recover from wounds can't be compared to freely bringing people back from death.

Why yes, having your wounds instantly heal in a designated "Sawyer-Circle" does make more sense than resurrection, even though both are actually impossible. Who would have guessed.

First off, its not instantly if you assume they actually rest at a resting area and on the second bolded

YOU ARE A FUCKING MORON

Both of these things do happen.

First off you heal everyday by not doing shit at all. That's kinda how your body works.

Secondly you can call things like restarting a heart a *ressurection* if you want. That happens too.

The difference is that one happens nearly every living moment on the first and only with a shitton of luck on the second.


Granted, these things are exaggerated in a fantasy world (You're not going to heal everything by just resting), but if you actually think they are flat out impossible or comparable I.... I just don't know.

 

[Sensuki]

Pretty sure that guy is just a troll.

 

[Rake]

Pretty sure that guy is just an idiot.

 

[hoverdog]

>not ignoring drogiamweasel

 

[Roguey]

theres a small contingent of people on the forum that are worried they are talking too much about gameplay mechanics, which is really funny.

true rpgs are designed ad hoc/capriciously and filled with sloppy imbalance/90% unviable character builds

This is what some people here want.

 

[Infinitron]

theres a small contingent of people on the forum that are worried they are talking too much about gameplay mechanics, which is really funny.

true rpgs are designed ad hoc/capriciously and filled with sloppy imbalance/90% unviable character builds

This is what some people here want.

What forum is he referring to?

 

[Sensuki]

If it ain't on SA or Eternity forums it's probably YCS Goldmine.

 

[Roguey]

What forum is he referring to?

Obsidian forums.

 

[Infinitron]

Thought so. Somebody should leak his YCS posts onto the Obsidian forums.