Obsidian's Pillars of Eternity [BETA RELEASED, GO TO THE NEW THREAD]

[Infinitron]

I thought DA injury system was very effective. It gave you an actual penalty that kept reminding about itself for an entire dungeon.

Combat was easy enough that you could just ignore the injury. At worst, you could backtrack to your camp to instantly remove the injury, or you could just use one of the dozens of Injury Kits that you'd hoarded.

 

[Jvegi]

Sure, but it wasn't a fault of the injury system itself. Injury Kits were not that plentiful if I remember correctly (it's been a while).

Backtracking is a penalty. Also, people don't really do that. A single injury wasn't serious, but they could stack up, which added to a feeling of progression and fatigue. I think it's fun and could work much better in a more balanced and challenging game.

 

[Surf Solar]

lolwat, there is no real ressurection ala bring the corpse to a priest and pay a sum of money? oO

 

[DraQ]

Resurrection is shit because it shits on the gameworld from above.

 

[Surf Solar]

How come?

 

[DraQ]

How come?

http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?search/

 

[Surf Solar]

 

[Infinitron]

Surf Solar: "Why can't I use Phoenix Down on Aeris?"

 

[Surf Solar]

Never had a problem with that, I thought we were talking about cRPGs not jRPGs ? As long as it makes sense in the gameworld (gods watch/help mankind) I don't see a problem there. Removing that is just another simplifying on sawyers part

 

[Infinitron]

Permadeath is simplifying? Hmm okay

 

[hoverdog]

Sure, but it wasn't a fault of the injury system itself. Injury Kits were not that plentiful if I remember correctly (it's been a while).

Backtracking is a penalty. Also, people don't really do that. A single injury wasn't serious, but they could stack up, which added to a feeling of progression and fatigue. I think it's fun and could work much better in a more balanced and challenging game.

You get Wynne (or become a healar mage (or however that prestige class was called) youself) and you don't need a single medkit anymore. Besides, the penalties were mostly negligible, small penalties to attributes didn't really affect the characters' power in a noticeable way.
The idea wasn't bad, but the implementation was absolutely horrible.

 

[Rake]

Think Fallout if it makes you happier. What's wrong with that model?

 

[Cowboy Moment]

Never had a problem with that, I thought we were talking about cRPGs not jRPGs ? As long as it makes sense in the gameworld (gods watch/help mankind) I don't see a problem there. Removing that is just another simplifying on sawyers part

What Infinitron and DraQ are saying, is that unrestricted resurrection has far-reaching implications for the setting and narrative. For instance, you can't reasonably have any plot involving an assassination, because the target can just be revived afterwards. Of course, you can make this work in terms of metaphysics and practical applications, and PE's focus on souls could allow for that (so an assassination can be carried out with the help of some kind of soul-trapping device, for instance), but it's a fairly substantial problem lore-wise.

Besides, I do agree that something like the injury system in DA would be more interesting gameplay-wise in a better designed game.

 

[Surf Solar]

Well as far as the BG games go (which I used as example before), the ability to ressurect people, D&D is to blame, not the actual game... Also, there were ways to permanently get rid of characters

 

[imweasel]

What Infinitron and DraQ are saying, is that unrestricted resurrection has far-reaching implications for the setting and narrative. For instance, you can't reasonably have any plot involving an assassination, because the target can just be revived afterwards.

Same goes for the magical healing/resting areas in PE that instantly restore a character's health by just having him sit on his ass while twiddling his thumbs. Makes about as much sense as resurrection.

 

[Duraframe300]

What Infinitron and DraQ are saying, is that unrestricted resurrection has far-reaching implications for the setting and narrative. For instance, you can't reasonably have any plot involving an assassination, because the target can just be revived afterwards.

Same goes for the magical healing/resting areas in PE that instantly restore a character's health by just having him sit on his ass while twiddling his thumbs. Makes about as much sense as resurrection.

I'm...

What?

Are you serious with that comparison?

 

[Arkeus]

Yeah, and it was totally ineffective. I'd like to think that the intention is that when you "die" in PE, you're not going to be able to meaningfully participate in combat until you get your health back. (Permadeath means that once you die, you CAN'T get your health back)

I'll ask Josh about this.

My impression was that injuries are permanent ability drain kind of stuff. Maybe you lose a level or something. And the character should be in 'coma' or whatever until everyone has rested to get their full life back.

 

[Rake]

Yeah, and it was totally ineffective. I'd like to think that the intention is that when you "die" in PE, you're not going to be able to meaningfully participate in combat until you get your health back. (Permadeath means that once you die, you CAN'T get your health back)

I'll ask Josh about this.

My impression was that injuries are permanent ability drain kind of stuff. Maybe you lose a level or something. And the character should be in 'coma' or whatever until everyone has rested to get their full life back.

That. Permadeath off should be just for those that don't want to reload in every character's death. That doesn't mean that the disabled characters can fight untill they are restored in camp. This isn't NWN2 or DA:O.

 

[hiver]

There should be some resources that you collect and spend automatically while you are resting to heal.
But that cant be used in combat, since they require resting.

And some knowledge to be gathered about it...? That wouldnt be bad.

 

[DraQ]

Fixed.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

What Infinitron and DraQ are saying, is that unrestricted resurrection has far-reaching implications for the setting and narrative. For instance, you can't reasonably have any plot involving an assassination, because the target can just be revived afterwards.

Same goes for the magical healing/resting areas in PE that instantly restore a character's health by just having him sit on his ass while twiddling his thumbs. Makes about as much sense as resurrection.

Not really, no. The impact of being able to quickly recover from wounds can't be compared to freely bringing people back from death. Try to imagine our world, except hospitals have clerics casting healing spells on whoever gets there with at least some hope of survival. That's kinda like how our world works. Now imagine our world, except those hospitals now have clerics that resur- what do you mean, the hospitals are now private property of our millennia-old glorious leaders?

 

[SuicideBunny]

Not really, no. The impact of being able to quickly recover from wounds can't be compared to freely bringing people back from death. Try to imagine our world, except hospitals have clerics casting healing spells on whoever gets there with at least some hope of survival. That's kinda like how our world works. Now imagine our world, except those hospitals now have clerics that resur- what do you mean, the hospitals are now private property of our millennia-old glorious leaders?

not if resurrection as such just undoes death itself without stopping aging, curing your dementia, fixing that birth heart defect or purging your body of that long-lasting and very hard to purify poison that assassin dood managed to put into your food.
if you still need to fix the problem before resurrection becomes viable due to it not being a cure-it-all in addition to what it normally does, then the impact is minimal.

 

[Excidium]

Not even in D&D settings ressurection is as easy and widespread a you people are saying. And clerics alone have like 3~4 spells that deal with just that...

 

[imweasel]

Not really, no. The impact of being able to quickly recover from wounds can't be compared to freely bringing people back from death.

Why yes, having your wounds instantly heal in a designated "Sawyer-Circle" does make more sense than resurrection, even though both are actually impossible. Who would have guessed.

And everbody knows that shitting out of your mouth actually makes more sense than shitting out of your ears. Cuz that's just common sense dude.

Try to imagine our world, except hospitals have clerics casting healing spells on whoever gets there with at least some hope of survival. That's kinda like how our world works.

Maybe you should first try to imagine the Project Eternity world/universe where the "physicians" (clerics) can cast healing spells - oh my, they won't be able too. Woops.

"Ohhhhhh shit. Gotta go to Sawyer's designated instant healing area to cure this deadly sword wound cuz the mutha fuckin' clerics can't heal me. Ohhhhh fuck, gotta hurry, otherwise im gonna fuckin' die."

Now imagine our world, except those hospitals now have clerics that resur- what do you mean, the hospitals are now private property of our millennia-old glorious leaders?

Sorry, I'm still trying to imagine our world with a designated healing area that instantly cures deep flesh wounds. That would be great actually.

 

[DraQ]

Not really, no. The impact of being able to quickly recover from wounds can't be compared to freely bringing people back from death. Try to imagine our world, except hospitals have clerics casting healing spells on whoever gets there with at least some hope of survival. That's kinda like how our world works. Now imagine our world, except those hospitals now have clerics that resur- what do you mean, the hospitals are now private property of our millennia-old glorious leaders?

not if resurrection as such just undoes death itself without stopping aging, curing your dementia, fixing that birth heart defect or purging your body of that long-lasting and very hard to purify poison that assassin dood managed to put into your food.
if you still need to fix the problem before resurrection becomes viable due to it not being a cure-it-all in addition to what it normally does, then the impact is minimal.

The impact of not having people die before they can be helped is going to be fucking humongous.

Currently we are not far from being able to cure shit like beheading, but I expect it to remain pretty lethal due to narrow time frame when the help can be administered. Suddenly resurrection.