Obsidian's Pillars of Eternity [BETA RELEASED, GO TO THE NEW THREAD]

[Lancehead]

I think "no fixed" because it's implied by "varies".

 

[Infinitron]

http://forums.somethingawful.com/sh...rid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=454#post417627390

There are a few reasons why I don't think absolute XP/level parity across all potential companions is always a good thing.

In a class-based game, how you learn to use the classes (specifically, their abilities) often develops over the course of playing them. When characters who aren't in the party auto-gain XP and you level them in big jumps, the characters can often gain numerous abilities simultaneously. This can make it harder to "get" the significance of the individual abilities. It can also demand that the player make a series of choices in immediate succession without realizing how each of the individual choices may interact.

If all characters are perfectly XP-locked to each other, when it's time to level up one character, it's time to level up all of the characters. IMO, this can be bad for pacing and it's asking the player to make strategic decisions for all of their party members at once.

There is a strategic element to whom you take and whom you leave behind. I don't believe that unused party members should sit stagnant; I just think that there are pacing and learning advantages to staggering them somewhat. If a player uses the stronghold system to manage characters when they aren't in the party, they can have full XP parity if the player wants them to. If you choose to not use the stronghold at all, the folks at the stronghold will trail in XP somewhat, but not a margin of many levels.

 

[NotTale]

As a fan of everyone having the same level, I think he makes a fair point about about learning the class and making choices all at once. If whatever system they're working on makes it so that I don't have to worry about a guy being a few levels behind being nearly useless, I'm comfortable.

 

[Logic_error]

I can't for any reason why this is 'bad for pacing'. Wtf.

 

[Shadenuat]

This is such an unimportant thing I don't understand why he even has back thoughts about it
If only party members get xp, player will take ones he likes the most and then try another game with ones he had missed
If everyone shares xp, player will try most of the characters, and then still stick to ones he likes and leave others for another playthrough
But apparently it's such an issue, that P:E needs another on/off switch just for that.
Either Josh is a true perfectionist ("my game, my chance, everything must be PERFECT" which deserves some respect of course) or he really likes to invent wheels

 

[Sensuki]

Because there's no fixed average rate of damage that a character can dish out. It varies with enemy armour DT, weapon damage type, other modifiers.

Character with +damage always does more damage than character without +damage when using the same damage type. There is still DPS but it's DPSvsDT0

 

[Ninjerk]

You exaggerate "one spell you loose" part greatly.

Well, I never did get interested in either of the Baldur's Gate games very long, and all the AD&D I played when I was younger were more political campaigns than monster slaying.

 

[DraQ]

So... like party based diablo?

You know, with nick like this...

So a mage/fighter/rogue/ninja/cleric/everything fucking class must/can look like this fucker without any penalties?

And I said that where, you little moron?

A mage can use anything if he wants, nobody cares

Except this is what the discussion is actually about - if it hasn't dawned on you yet, no one here wants mage to swing zweihanders like Longinus fucking Podbipięta, only for the game to not fucking assume what player may or may not want to do.

But you're such a Skyshit loving retard

Nope. So far *YOU* are proving to be an angry little retard flailing about like a rabid chimp with jalapeno-laced firecracker stuck up its ass for no discernible reason.

encumbrance

Yes, and all that is important except for... weight?

Look up "encumbrance", moron.

Also, I'm not sure if it finally got to you but 20kg swords are purely a domain of retarded fiction.
Normal human can swing pretty much any usable weapon several times, and no, save for some special cases like flexible weapons, it won't get angry and chop his balls off because he isn't an accomplished swordsman.

Whether it's worth to have PC mage swing a greatsword once or twice, with all the problems inherent in person lacking skill and endurance swinging a heavy sword about, or not is up to the player to decide, not designers.

All of this bullshit preaching on how much Skyrim's system makes sense because it reflects upon a human's physical capabilities ("and is totally awesome") yet you cannot grasp the fact that items have weight.

So far the only person bringing Skyrim into discussion and then mentioning it over and over again in this thread is you - get fucking over it already.
Also, do look up "encumbrance".

But maybe mages should be able to cast "make this sword/armor fucking feather light so I can use it" so that you can have your mage look like a knight - and you finally shut the fuck up. "flame blade" and "stone armor" would be a better fit for a high magic setting though.

Actually, spells that could alter weight and other parameters of arbitrary objects (within certain limits) and creatures in game, with consequences varying depending on circumstances and target would be far more awesome than all the flame blades, stone aromurs and possibly even thunder farts together, but I do understand that as a person suffering from profound mental retardation you find superficial flashy shit irresistibly appealing.

Oh, I nearly forgot:

Joined:
Jan 7, 2013

Yeah. Combat encounters rarely even last that long in RtWP to see any effect of those 30%.

What if they last long enough in this particular RtWP game? All signs indicate that PE is going for a more slow-paced, predictable and static form of combat, similar to some RTSes.

Errr, combat in traditional RTSes is more fast-paced than in RTWP tactical games. Starcraft is way faster than IE, for example.

I did say "some". I'm thinking more of in the direction of Total War, Myth, stuff like that.

Now imagine playing an RPG where party members would get splattered as frequently and randomly as it happens in Myth.

Casualty.

 

[The Bishop]

I did say "some". I'm thinking more of in the direction of Total War, Myth, stuff like that.

Or X-COM: Apocalypse. It was pretty flawed game as a whole but had pretty good RTwP implementations - well paced, with speed options, configurable triggers for pause etc.

When people hear RTwP it seems many automatically assume IE games and all the clusterfuckery associated with them, but for me RTwP is also X-COM: Apocalypse or Close Combat. They don't make games like those anymore...

 

[Zetor]

RTWP was ok in Freedom Force (especially since it could be turned into slo-mo instead of pause).

 

[Lancehead]

only for the game to not fucking assume what player may or may not want to do.

That's too much to expect from games generally.

 

[Sensuki]

Hopefully stats are soft coded.

 

[Infinitron]

In before Day 2 AD&D total conversion mod

 

[Semper]

If only party members get xp, player will take ones he likes the most and then try another game with ones he had missed
If everyone shares xp, player will try most of the characters, and then still stick to ones he likes and leave others for another playthrough

personally i don't like a system where companions left at home don't get any xp and are totally gimped after a few hours of play, but they shouldn't be at the same level as the adventuring party either. 2-3 lvls behind seems like a good tradeoff. this way you can switch party members as you see fit strategically, especially in a game with free party creation*. before crawling through the dungeon with special encounters, provided there's at least some evidence what's to come, you can adapt your style of play without to resort to a weak party.

* hire create a specialized goon who costs a fortune.

btw is there any word about character creation? will the initial party be free and every replaced char costs money, linear to the level of the party?

 

[Infinitron]

btw is there any word about character creation? will the initial party be free and every replaced char costs money, linear to the level of the party?

I don't understand. You will only create one main character in Project Eternity.

Unless you're talking about the optional Adventurer's Hall? We don't know how that will work yet.

 

[Semper]

that's what i meant: adventurer's hall. the initial party should be free to create and every replacement of character should cost money.

 

[Kz3r0]

That sentence looks familiar...

IP check on Logic_error:

• Captain Shrek (Jul 9, 2011)
• JamesBond (Jul 3, 2012)
• Logic_error (Jul 2, 2013)

Welcome back, bro.

 

[Brotherman Bill]

Why was cptn shrek banned?

 

[Infinitron]

Why was cptn shrek banned?

Captain Shrek was Dumbfuck'd, not banned. His alt was banned because it was an attempt to circumvent the Dumbfuck.

 

[DraQ]

That's too much to expect from games generally.

In this case the expectation is completely reasonable, though - don't tell me if I want my mage to use full plate and/or GS. Tell me what disadvantages my mage will face, and leave the decision to me.

You don't know and cannot know if and when I may find purpose for my mage being able to only swing GS twice, and not very skillfully, before having to lie down for a while and catch his breath, so don't fucking tell me.

personally i don't like a system where companions left at home don't get any xp and are totally gimped after a few hours of play

1. Generate independent adventuring parties you can meet and interact with in the gameworld.
2. Make left out party members seek adventures on their own instead of staying put in the kitchen.
3. Make disposition with individual characters govern what may happen when two groups met, especially if it isn't friendly.
4. Let players rage when they discover their companion got killed two weeks before their last save while adventuring independently or in-party character decides to switch sides to now hostile party they adventured with last time because the PC is kind of asshole (or goody 2 shoes turning down all the profit).
5.

(Would actually love such a thing).

DT reduces the average damage dished out by a fixed amount. It does not control it.

That sentence looks familiar...

IP check on Logic_error:

• Captain Shrek (Jul 9, 2011)
• JamesBond (Jul 3, 2012)
• Logic_error (Jul 2, 2013)

Welcome back, bro.

I vote for restoring (and dumbfuckening) Logic_error account but banning the Captain Shrek one.
Reason? The new nickname is such a nice foreshadowing of what the contents of the post will be.

 

[Surf Solar]

I wonder, when we only create a main character, will we receive the same retarded game over like it was in BGI/II ? Like, everyone can die and you can resurrect them, only the main chars death is "lol reload" ?

 

[Infinitron]

I wonder, when we only create a main character, will we receive the same retarded game over like it was in BGI/II ? Like, everyone can die and you can resurrect them, only the main chars death is "lol reload" ?

Hmm, that's a good question. I assume that it WILL be a game over of some kind since this is a PS:T-like game where only the main character can talk with NPCs. You can't exactly go on without him.

 

[Surf Solar]

Bleh, I hope you are not right. This is fucking annoying...

 

[April]

The BG2 death mechanic wasn't retarded. The reason why MC death = game over is anchored in the story.

The retarded part is that Imoen could be resurrected.

 

[evdk]

I wonder, when we only create a main character, will we receive the same retarded game over like it was in BGI/II ? Like, everyone can die and you can resurrect them, only the main chars death is "lol reload" ?

Depends on what the supernatural problem that hounds him will be. It might actually make plot sense for him not to be able to get resurrected.

Hmm, that's a good question. I assume that it WILL be a game over of some kind since this is a PS:T-like game where only the main character can talk with NPCs. You can't exactly go on without him.

Of course in PS:T you can die all you want without a game over, with the exception of special circumstances which are more akin to non standard game over in other games.