Obsidian's Pillars of Eternity [BETA RELEASED, GO TO THE NEW THREAD]

[Lancehead]

I wasn't saying anything different.

 

[Roguey]

As long as they're not just lore dumps as they were in BGs.

The books in the BGs were just copypasted FR crap. IWD didn't have nearly as much.

 

[coffeetable]

Zed ‏@dphanto5h
@jesawyer is there an eternity update this tues?

Josh Sawyer ‏@jesawyer3h
@vvshadow @dphanto rpgcodex it's a class update and is fairly lore-heavy.

woot

 

[Space Satan]

BG2 had the best motivation to pursue main villain - to get back your soul and get a revenge for torturing you. It's not that many things that may keep players motivated. DA:O had it right - you either stop archdemon or basically, face end of the world. DA2, BG1, NWN2 were shit. trying to motivate player by some half-assed family, father/mother issues. So I would like to see how Josh will handle player motivation in PE.

 

[coffeetable]

BG2 had the best motivation to pursue main villain - to get back your soul and get a revenge for torturing you. It's not that many things that may keep players motivated. DA:O had it right - you either stop archdemon or basically, face end of the world. DA2, BG1, NWN2 were shit. trying to motivate player by some half-assed family, father/mother issues. So I would like to see how Josh will handle player motivation in PE.

From one of the early updates:

The player witnesses an extraordinary and horrific supernatural event that thrusts them into a unique and difficult circumstance. Burdened with the consequences of this event, the player has to investigate what has happened in order to free themselves from the restless forces that follow and haunt them wherever they go.

 

[tuluse]

BG2 had the best motivation to pursue main villain - to get back your soul and get a revenge for torturing you. It's not that many things that may keep players motivated. DA:O had it right - you either stop archdemon or basically, face end of the world. DA2, BG1, NWN2 were shit. trying to motivate player by some half-assed family, father/mother issues. So I would like to see how Josh will handle player motivation in PE.

BG1 is an evil dude hiring assassins to kill you, I think that's proper motivation.

 

[Cursed Platypus]

DA:O had it right - you either stop archdemon or basically, face end of the world. .

That's banal shit boring motivation.

I wish there was no villain for once. If they truly aim for something more credible. No ''grey'' villain either. Just not a villain, neither is the player a good guy.
For example : Another's nation general (powerful guy with a though bodyguard for the end fight), aiming to get something for his nation, while you do the same for another faction. Just business. Of course it eventually gets personal since both of you try to kill each other.
Not necessary as cold as that, could be someone wanting to avenge himself for some bullshit you did to him. Or better, different antagonist, depending on your decisions/actions in the game (not tied to each other, might even be fighting amongst each other).

 

[funkadelik]

The player witnesses an extraordinary and horrific supernatural event that thrusts them into a unique and difficult circumstance. Burdened with the consequences of this event, the player has to investigate what has happened in order to free themselves from the restless forces that follow and haunt them wherever they go.

Sounds like Princess Mononoke.

 

[jdinatale]

DA:O had it right - you either stop archdemon or basically, face end of the world. .

That's banal shit boring motivation.

I wish there was no villain for once. If they truly aim for something more credible. No ''grey'' villain either. Just not a villain, neither is the player a good guy.
For example : Another's nation general (powerful guy with a though bodyguard for the end fight), aiming to get something for his nation, while you do the same for another faction. Just business. Of course it eventually gets personal since both of you try to kill each other.
Not necessary as cold as that, could be someone wanting to avenge himself for some bullshit you did to him. Or better, different antagonist, depending on your decisions/actions in the game (not tied to each other, might even be fighting amongst each other).

I hate RPG's where there isn't a strong villain. I'm not necessarily advocating a "reawakened ancient evil that only the chosen one can stop" cliched type plot, but I think there should be a strong villain driving the plot. That's part of the reason why I didn't like the Witcher. There was just a vague idea about a villain and the rest of the plot was boring racism and warring nations issues.

 

[Sensuki]

BG2 had the best motivation to pursue main villain - to get back your soul and get a revenge for torturing you. It's not that many things that may keep players motivated. DA:O had it right - you either stop archdemon or basically, face end of the world. DA2, BG1, NWN2 were shit. trying to motivate player by some half-assed family, father/mother issues. So I would like to see how Josh will handle player motivation in PE.

BG1 is an evil dude hiring assassins to kill you, I think that's proper motivation.

 

[Lancehead]

It lacked a good player motivation.

 

[Cyberarmy]

Strong villain plots are done to death, not only in RPGs but in most other games too. Lets save the universe/world/kingdom/country.

It is refreshing when game offers something more than an evil mastermind who releases kobolds/goblins at first...

 

[Sensuki]

Wonder what class it's going to be?

Druids or Chanters imo

 

[Mantic]

The best kind of cRPG "plot" is the least obtrusive one. Find the water chip/GECK instructions at the beginning, but that's it, the rest should be left to the player's own devices.

 

[Roguey]

4e truths from Josh:

i don't think it was an entirely rational response but i think one of the reasons some D&D players got frowny face with 4e was due to the classes and races presented in the first PHB, i.e. no bard, druid, or barbarian and no gnome or half-orc. instead they got dragonborn, eladrin, warlords, etc.

in DDN the class lineup is very conservative. the most controversial thing they've done, name-wise, is change "wizard" to "mage".

Dragons in PC race friendly form are dumb but I get why they did it.

i don't, really. i understand that there are a lot of people that like dragons and like the idea of playing some sort of draconic character, but i don't think those people were not playing D&D because dragonborn weren't a core race. i'd imagine the number of people who were turned off by their inclusion easily exceeds the number of people who, in some weird twist, decided to become new D&D players because of it.

"wow, yeah, i was totally down with the rules changes and i liked the sample module they did but dragonborn? dragonborn??? you can count me OUT of your customer base, sir" said nobody, ever

when i wrote that some people were turned off by their inclusion, i just meant that they disliked it. i doubt many people gave up on 4e because of it, but i also don't think many people started playing 4e (or returned to D&D after leaving) because of it. of course, some players only need one thing they really don't like to heavily bias them against a game/product.

"weird races" or "weird classes" are among some of the first reasons many people have given me for not liking 4e (the number one reason is "all classes are the same"). most of these same people had little to no experience actually playing 4e, or if they did play, it was only for a session or two.

ok but like ... the classes aren't all the same. that's false. it's a lie. if the number one reason people say they dislike a game is just a flagrant lie then being 'conservative' or 'radical' with classes and races is totally irrelevant and the problem is 'whether your competitors can get people to shout really loud lies about your game'

it's an incorrect statement, yes, but i don't think most of the players saying that know it's an incorrect statement. they have a shallow understanding of the system because they've either only given a cursory glance to the rules or have limited experience with them. i've spent a fair amount of time speaking to people about how and why classes play differently and in most of the cases they seem genuinely surprised. their initial attitudes suggest they never gave the system a chance, often because they started out with a superficial bias against it.

most of the people i've had these conversations with are people i know irl who, as far as i can tell during our conversations, didn't/don't follow online TTRPG communities at all.

 

[Infinitron]

Roguey Feel free to make a "Josh Sawyer on PnP" thread in the Gazebo.

 

[Roguey]

Starting a thread would suggest it's something I wish to discuss and I'm just trolling here in regard to how Project Eternity will play.

 

[Sensuki]

Well it's not really a troll, because it's probably going to be true to some extent.

There is a lot of 4E-ism in the design. And I mean that in a "This is designed to do what 4E tried to do/wanted to do" rather than what it actually did.

I actually prefer Mage to Wizard, because I played 2nd Edition first. Baby Duck syndrome.

 

[Ninjerk]

Weren't Wizards in 2E just spellcasters who chose a single spell class and got more casts at lower levels in it?

 

[Sensuki]

No? You could be a specialist wizard though

 

[Hormalakh]

Going back to the lore books, the best way to do it was Arcanum. That was exactly the way I envisioned it when Sawyer described it.

 

[Infinitron]

GameBanshee did a good roundup of all the recent (and not-so-recent) Sawyer and dev posts: http://gamebanshee.com/news/112390-project-eternity-social-round-up.html

 

[Hormalakh]

fuck, whenever i spend a bunch of time reading the finer details in mechanics, this game gets me so fucking hopped up - i can't contain my enthusiasm.

 

[Roguey]

Well it's not really a troll, because it's probably going to be true to some extent.

There is a lot of 4E-ism in the design. And I mean that in a "This is designed to do what 4E tried to do/wanted to do" rather than what it actually did.

I actually prefer Mage to Wizard, because I played 2nd Edition first. Baby Duck syndrome.

"People get really upset at weird classes and races when they 'replace' some of what they're familiar with" also helps explain why PE is closely following BG2/IWD2 in that regard.

 

[Sensuki]

In what regard? Baby Duck Syndrome?