Obsidian's Pillars of Eternity [BETA RELEASED, GO TO THE NEW THREAD]

[Arkadin]

Degenerate counterpoint detected. Parallel octaves between bass and soprano almost guaranteed.

 

[DeepOcean]

Regular ammo should be infinite. I still remember when I played Icewind Dale, with a all ranged party, if I didn't wanted to return to the city after each dungeon level, I had to fill my inventory with rocks and arrows making inventory juggling really annoying. Project Eternity isn't a post apocalyptic RPG or have strong survival elements into it, so why waste time buying regular arrows?

 

[Gurkog]

Make arrows replenish on rest, because why the fuck not. Then you get resource management and unlimited supply... best of both worlds!

 

[Lhynn]

I dont want my motherfucking ammo generating itself out of thin air, i want to be able to buy it, i want to do inventory managment because i choose to bring ranged units and they need shit to throw at the enemy. I want there to be an item that solves that problem later on, because i love it when magic is magical instead of just another combat mechanic.
Fucks sake, you cant get any more popamole than what you guys are proposing.

 

[Jedi Exile]

Yeah, infinite ammo sucks. It makes sense (like health regen for example), but it still sucks.

 

[dunno lah]

Dark Souls way is the best way.

 

[Athelas]

Limited ammo obviously, and there should be a magical bow that creates energy arrows, the damage of which is based on your intelligence stat. Or a skill that gives you a chance to salvage arrows you've fired at your enemy.

 

[April]

I'd rather have a skill that each time you camp outside, the skillholder gathers a certain amount of snakes that can be used as ammo ala http://www.seankreynolds.com/rpgfiles/prestige/serpentarcher.html

 

[Lancehead]

I got curious after reading the class name as Serpent Archer, then I found this stupidity:

Serpent Arrow: As a move-equivalent action, a serpent archer may remove a Tiny snake from a container (similar to drawing an arrow or bolt from a quiver) and pull its body straight and stiff, suitable for firing from a bow (longbow, short bow, composite longbow, or composite shortbow) or crossbow (light or heavy). When fired from a bow in this manner, the snake deals normal damage for the bow. If the snake is a poisonous snake, it also injects the target with poison as if she had been bitten by the snake. After being fired in this manner, the snake is stunned for 1 round (normally falling to the ground at the feet of the target). Once the snake recovers, it continues to attack the target if the snake is of a size that would normally attack a creature of the target's size, otherwise it tries to leave the target's threatened area.

 

[Roguey]

I've run out of ammo in IWD. Ranged enemies would only ever drop a few arrows.

You buy hundreds of them at a store. With the tweak pack I gave everyone 1000 arrows/bullets/bolts right away and only had to replenish now and then.

 

[Rahdulan]

I got curious after reading the class name as Serpent Archer, then I found this stupidity:

Serpent Arrow: As a move-equivalent action, a serpent archer may remove a Tiny snake from a container (similar to drawing an arrow or bolt from a quiver) and pull its body straight and stiff, suitable for firing from a bow (longbow, short bow, composite longbow, or composite shortbow) or crossbow (light or heavy). When fired from a bow in this manner, the snake deals normal damage for the bow. If the snake is a poisonous snake, it also injects the target with poison as if she had been bitten by the snake. After being fired in this manner, the snake is stunned for 1 round (normally falling to the ground at the feet of the target). Once the snake recovers, it continues to attack the target if the snake is of a size that would normally attack a creature of the target's size, otherwise it tries to leave the target's threatened area.

Hey now, that's not cool.

 

[Jim the Dinosaur]

I dont want my motherfucking ammo generating itself out of thin air, i want to be able to buy it, i want to do inventory managment because i choose to bring ranged units and they need shit to throw at the enemy. I want there to be an item that solves that problem later on, because i love it when magic is magical instead of just another combat mechanic.
Fucks sake, you cant get any more popamole than what you guys are proposing.

Did you feel like a special immersed someone while clicking away at arrow icons in stores in the BG's? The entire purpose of basic ammo in the BG's was that it would never run out, so they made it free, weightless and in huge stacks; the reason was probably balancing: make it so that archers run out of ammo halfway through a dungeon and they either become useless or you have to pump points in close range weapons just in case. Both scenarios would make ranged characters worse than tanks and thus unbalance it.

The entire reasoning behind basic BG ammo leads to it being infinite, which it therefore was in practice. The only reason to not make it infinite is because someone doesn't find it immersion breaking to carry around a thousand free arrows after clicking a lot of times, yet finds it immersion breaking when the game does the clicking part for him.

 

[Jim Cojones]

I've run out of ammo in IWD. Ranged enemies would only ever drop a few arrows.

You buy hundreds of them at a store. With the tweak pack I gave everyone 1000 arrows/bullets/bolts right away and only had to replenish now and then.

Tweak pack being critical for that. In base game you can run out of arrows in bigger dungeons even when you use half of your inventory for storing them.

 

[Roguey]

I've run out of ammo in IWD. Ranged enemies would only ever drop a few arrows.

You buy hundreds of them at a store. With the tweak pack I gave everyone 1000 arrows/bullets/bolts right away and only had to replenish now and then.

Tweak pack being critical for that. In base game you can run out of arrows in bigger dungeons even when you use half of your inventory for storing them.

Then you get to enjoy the degeneracy of running back to the shop for more arrows. The only inconvenience is time.

 

[Infinitron]

Then you get to enjoy the degeneracy of running back to the shop for more arrows. The only inconvenience is time.

This is the same thing as the "degeneracy" of running back to a rest spot when you run out of health.

There's nothing wrong with resource constraints, as long as they're meaningful and add something to the game. Limited ammunition can prevent players from using degenerate kiting tactics, for instance.

 

[April]

I've run out of ammo in IWD. Ranged enemies would only ever drop a few arrows.

You buy hundreds of them at a store. With the tweak pack I gave everyone 1000 arrows/bullets/bolts right away and only had to replenish now and then.

Tweak pack being critical for that. In base game you can run out of arrows in bigger dungeons even when you use half of your inventory for storing them.

Then you get to enjoy the degeneracy of running back to the shop for more arrows. The only inconvenience is time.

Which is why it shouldn't matter for gameplay if unlimited ammo is or isn't implemented.

The exception would be if the game is designed with re-spawning dungeons where you have to clear it in one try or face the consequences (tougher mercenary guards are hired or something).

 

[Roguey]

Then you get to enjoy the degeneracy of running back to the shop for more arrows. The only inconvenience is time.

This is the same thing as the "degeneracy" of running back to a rest spot when you run out of health.

There's nothing wrong with resource constraints, as long as they're a meaningful challenge. Limited ammunition can prevent players from using degenerate kiting tactics.

Unnecessary because they're already addressed kiting through engagement plus needing to stand still to reload.

Plus Josh is not a fan of the backtracking http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/60875-merged-cooldown-thread/page-16#entry1220128

Alsooooooo a thing to keep in mind is that you can just buy thousands of ammo and keep hundreds equipped and at the top of your pack and replenish it every time you get to a new rest spot. Sounds like pointless routine to me.

 

[Lancehead]

That question of backtracking is ironic considering it's raised only because the game doesn't allow to rest anywhere.

 

[Infinitron]

Exactly. He's already given up on "no backtracking" so I don't see how that's relevant.

Alsooooooo a thing to keep in mind is that you can just buy thousands of ammo and keep hundreds equipped and at the top of your pack and replenish it every time you get to a new rest spot. Sounds like pointless routine to me.

Set an upper limit on the amount of standard ammunition you can have, make it a non-standard item. Arrow mana.

 

[April]

Alsooooooo a thing to keep in mind is that you can just buy thousands of ammo and keep hundreds equipped and at the top of your pack and replenish it every time you get to a new rest spot. Sounds like pointless routine to me.

Set an upper limit on the amount of standard ammunition you can have, make it a non-standard item. Arrow mana.

Introduce whetstones, each hit with a melee weapon reduces whetstone count by 1. Sword mana.

 

[Jim the Dinosaur]

Set an upper limit on the amount of standard ammunition you can have, make it a non-standard item. Arrow mana.

And how do you decide this upper limit? Party members * x so that you're encouraged to have as few ranged characters as possible?

 

[Infinitron]

And how do you decide this upper limit? Party members * x so that you're encouraged to have as few ranged characters as possible?

As I explained earlier ITT, it would be a per character resource rechargeable at selected rest areas.

Spells are a limited resource. Health is a limited resource. Why not arrows?

 

[Jim the Dinosaur]

Yes, but health is for everyone, spells for spell casters, who's ammo for? How does the game decides which characters are "ranged"?

 

[Infinitron]

Yes, but health is for everyone, spells for spell casters, who's ammo for? How does the game decides which characters are "ranged"?

Don't see why it couldn't be all of them.

April As I showed you, the fanbase has already overwhelmingly rejected melee weapon durability. It's not coming back, for good or for ill.

 

[Jim the Dinosaur]

That's why I said that the consequence of that approach would be that it'd be in your interest to have as few ranged characters as possible. Or don't you think that's an issue?