Obsidian's Pillars of Eternity [BETA RELEASED, GO TO THE NEW THREAD]

[sea]

I've shot him a question about his minimalist approach towards worldcrafting on his Formspring. Although he usually ignores my questions.

Did FO:NV feel minimalist in terms of conversations? If not, I assume we have nothing to worry about.

Played Old World Blues? It opens with a 20-something-minute conversation right when players have been sent to a new world and want to explore it.

As awesome as that conversation is, that sucks for 90% of players who just want to go out and enjoy the game.

Lengthy, exposition-landed dialogue is fine... if it is optional. Get the important facts out there ASAP in a believable way that defines the characters (if they need defining) and then let the player GTFO if they want. Save all the interesting backstory and detail for those who show they want it. This is what Sawyer was talking about - getting away from overly long, mandatory info dumps and just letting players enjoy the game the way they want. The easiest way to end up with confused, uninterested players is to give them so much text that the important bits get drowned out and lost. In this respect, New Vegas was awesome because it gave you all you needed to know up front, but had interesting stuff there to reward those who explored the dialogue options fully, including quests etc.

 

[hoverdog]

Oh, so Sawyer is VD. It's all starting to make sense now.

So Vault Dweller is Brian Mitsoda is Josh Sawyer is... :point:

 

[Grunker]

Lengthy, exposition-landed dialogue is fine... if it is optional

Bingo.

But it always was, in IE.

 

[Infinitron]

I've shot him a question about his minimalist approach towards worldcrafting on his Formspring. Although he usually ignores my questions.

Did FO:NV feel minimalist in terms of conversations? If not, I assume we have nothing to worry about.

Played Old World Blues? It opens with a 20-something-minute conversation right when players have been sent to a new world and want to explore it.

As awesome as that conversation is, that sucks for 90% of players who just want to go out and enjoy the game.

Lengthy, exposition-landed dialogue is fine... if it is optional. Get the important facts out there ASAP in a believable way that defines the characters (if they need defining) and then let the player GTFO if they want. Save all the interesting backstory and detail for those who show they want it. This is what Sawyer was talking about - getting away from overly long, mandatory info dumps and just letting players enjoy the game the way they want. The easiest way to end up with confused, uninterested players is to give them so much text that the important bits get drowned out and lost. In this respect, New Vegas was awesome because it gave you all you needed to know up front, but had interesting stuff there to reward those who explored the dialogue options fully, including quests etc.

Old World Blues, which was made by


But let me reiterate that I am NOT talking only about lengthy exposition infodumps here. This is about "mundane" flavor text, of whatever length.

 

[pakoito]

I don't have an account there to comment but I liked Amalur's way of tackling it. White answers for exposition, blue ones to advance story.

 

[Grunker]

colorcoding for anyhing else than skill checks, and even sometimes there too, is pure stupidity

subconciously it makes you skip reading and make choices based on happy sparkly colours

it's like those choice-pinpointers in da2 et al

 

[pakoito]

colorcoding for anyhing else than skill checks, and even sometimes there too, is pure stupidity

subconciously it makes you skip reading and make choices based on happy sparkly colours

it's like those choice-pinpointers in da2 et al

It's not like they highlighted red for evil option and yellow for deeds. When you spoke to a character white was lore and blue story pushing. You didn't have real choices in that game anyway, but I'd make both options blue too.

And never ever point which one is the "good" one because life is grey. If the game is good enough written, you may surprise yourself choosing an option that someone else would think is the bad one...kind of a politics thing. Adult themes not reducing them to sex and violence. Or rape. Look at this (parenthesis means ingame effect, not told to the player)

"Oh I am the king and our contry is dirty poor because we owe money to the banks: we can fuck everyone with a 10% tax that'll make food expensive and scarce, expropiate some lands from a few of them that'd instantly become dead-man-walking, or not pay the bankers and risk a mercenary company running around the country killing people until we pay or defeat them".

* 10% taxes. (Peasants hate you, won't help, higher prices)
* Expropiate (Get a new subpar guy in your party or make him mortal enemy)
* Default payment (New faction spawned: mercenaries. Hostile to everyone. Higher prices due to closed trade routes.)

 

[TwinkieGorilla]

I actually never chose "empathy" in FO because I thought that idea was pretty shit. Let me ask/say wtf I want plz ok.

 

[Regvard]

snip.

I wish my taxes were 10%.

We pay taxes for the taxes we pay here.

For example if you want to buy a car with an engine between 1.6-2 liters you pay:

x tax: 80%
+
y tax: 18%
+
y tax of x tax: 14.4%
=
total: %112.4

This goes up to 171.4% if the engine larger than 2 liters.

Conclusion: Those fucking peasants should be grateful.

 

[J_C]

Sorry to disrupt the conversation about dialogs, but the guys added some more stuff to the 2 million stretch goal. It's not just the house anymore, it adds quests, NPCs, more dialog, and a new store with new unique weapons, clothing, and armor.

And it shows its effect immediately:

 

[Infinitron]

Looks like they listened to complaints about the house after all.

Next Stretch Goal - Player House at $2.0M adds quests, NPCs, a companion hang out, more dialog, and a new store with new unique weapons, clothing, and armor.

 

[TheEntitledOne]

Sorry to disrupt the conversation about dialogs, but the guys added some more stuff to the 2 million stretch goal. It's not just the house anymore, it adds quests, NPCs, more dialog, and a new store with new unique weapons, clothing, and armor.

And it shows its effect immediately:

Didn't they change that yesterday? Why the sudden increase in the last few hours?

 

[Krash]

What fucking shithole do you live in? o_O

 

[Infinitron]

Kwan wakeup time?

 

[DwarvenFood]

There's one $20 slot left if you're quick

Limited (1 of 25000 left)

 

[Infinitron]

The black husserl ragequits: http://forums.somethingawful.com/sh...rid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=120#post407862657

I understand, but I don't think this game is going to be anything like the old infinity engine games, where entering a town and clicking on the million npcs and seeing their neat names and dialogue options was one of my favorite parts. It's not "mundane exposition" to me - I don't need every dialogue to be super cool and exciting and I liked the idea that I was just a strange adventurer who needed to ask questions.

Good luck with this new game, from reading the kickstarter I thought P:E was going to feel a lot like Baldur's Gate, but from reading this thread it seems that only the isometric perspective is really staying. Not trying to be too much of a whiner - people seem to be really into the new ways and if they don't want "boring infodumps", they shouldn't have them.

Let's see if/how Josh appeases him.

Josh's reply: http://forums.somethingawful.com/sh...rid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=120#post407865717

I think there is more similarity in this project and the IE games than the perspective. I also think you're mischaracterizing my response. They're not boring infodumps because information is boring. They're boring infodumps when they're written in a boring fashion. Filler dialogue should be considered equivalent to filler combat. If a designer is implementing it, he or she should really ask themselves if they're improving the player's experience and understanding of the world and the people in it.

 

[Infinitron]

wat http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/60629-melissa-disney/

I always loved her voice for some reason as imogen - do you think/would like for her to do a voice in this game??

I bet he mispelled "Imoen" because he's using one hand to fap to pictures of her.

 

[Alex]

Josh Sawyer doesn't like mundane flavor conversations: http://forums.somethingawful.com/sh...rid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=119#post407855368


the black husserl posted:

I'm still a little confused, in Alpha Protcol all the dialogue options were "choices" but that's not the way it was in BG. In the infinity engine games it was possible to ask questions, make comments, etc. without splitting off into branching paths.​

How does always have compelling "choices" fit in if I just want to ask a peasant which way to the tavern? Thanks rope kid for answering all our nerdy questions

​

Putting mundane exposition into dialogue is, IMO, often a huge waste of the designers' and players' time. If conversation is not furthering player or NPC characterization and conflict, I think it's being ill-used. If straight exposition needs to be part of a "proper" conversation, I think it should be split off from whatever the main conflict of the character(s) is. But really, in that case, you've essentially just turned an NPC into an encyclopedia (especially if it's literally something like asking an unnamed character how to get to a location).

I would like to prove that Mr. Sawyer is completely wrong on this one. For this, I will use two pieces of evidence, and let you decide for yourselves:

Exhibit A:

Exhibit B:

I rest my case.

P.S. Obviously I expect some of you to disagree with me, but I couldn't resist doing this, sorry.

 

[Jaesun]

They haven't even stated there would be VO in this game have that? At this budget I'm doubting it will (for the same reason it wont be in WL2). It's too expensive.

 

[Jarpie]

They said if there's gonna be VO it's gonna be like in BG2, PS:T etc so just first lines or so.

 

[Jaesun]

Ahh ok, that would work fine.

 

[Infinitron]

I demand Felicia Day to be in this production. Voicing all the roles.

 

[Infinitron]

Durability poll: http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/60622-durability/
Barter system poll: http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/60632-barter-system-pwitty-pweeze/

 

[tuluse]

Durability poll: http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/60622-durability/
Barter system poll: http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/60632-barter-system-pwitty-pweeze/

This is a world where guns have been invented, I'm pretty sure would have figured out a monetary system too.

 

[groke]

Oh, so Sawyer is VD. It's all starting to make sense now.

So Vault Dweller is Brian Mitsoda is Josh Sawyer is... :point:

EVERYONE IS CHEFE.