Obsidian's Pillars of Eternity [BETA RELEASED, GO TO THE NEW THREAD]

[Brother None]

You know, because grids are actually possible and superior to lists on a PC, while consoles can't handle anything else.

Why wouldn't console be able to use a grid? Also, wouldn't grid be superior on tablet, which started this whole debate?

Brother None Care to repeat yourself?

Not really. sea already listed some valid reasons, loot density and budget were factors. I don't think the whole list = console thing occurred to anyone at inXile, me included. "It has the same type of inventory as Wasteland 1 and Fallout had! WHAT DECLINE!!!!!"

That said, I will admit that this debate really amuses me right now. It's just. Funny.

 

[Grunker]

Why wouldn't console be able to use a grid? Also, wouldn't grid be superior on tablet, which started this whole debate?

Because up/down/left/right works well in a list and works shitty in a grid? Basically, the reason any developer ever has given for using lists on their console games.

"It has the same type of inventory as Wasteland 1 and Fallout had! WHAT DECLINE!!!!!"

Nice to see you haven't given up the reductionist bullshit

The "Fallout had a list, so it's 'k"-defense is the only hilarious thing here. A more arbitrary defense would be hard to think of, and on top of this it's a really bad one considering that Fallout's inventory is pretty universally panned.

 

[tuluse]

Fallout had like the shittiest inventory ever though.

Also, I was hoping for a limited space inventory, so volume and weight would both be factors to manage.

 

[FeelTheRads]

"It has the same type of inventory as Wasteland 1 and Fallout had! WHAT DECLINE!!!!!"

Nope. Fallout didn't have shitty Fallout 3 icons. It had the items themselves. That at least made the list better for being able to quickly identify items.
There's no reason to have those shitty icons except for them to be readable on consoles. If it didn't occur to people at inXile to use the item graphics instead (especially since you already have item graphics) then I think you should have an occurring course to see how things occur.

 

[Infinitron]

I didn't know icon representations of inventory items were a console thing.

In any case, hasn't it already been stated by Brother None that inXile has a ridiculously stingy art budget? It probably has more to do with that.

 

[Lancehead]

"It has the same type of inventory as Wasteland 1 and Fallout had! WHAT DECLINE!!!!!"

Nice to see you haven't given up the reductionist bullshit

The "Fallout had a list, so it's 'k"-defense is the only hilarious thing here. A more arbitrary defense would be hard to think of, and on top of this it's a really bad one considering that Fallout's inventory is pretty universally panned.

I believe the point was that just as you cannot say Fallout and WL1 owe their list inventory design (them being shitty or not is besides the point) to console aspirations, the same may be applied to WL2's choice of list inventory.

 

[FeelTheRads]

In any case, hasn't it already been stated by Brother None that inXile has a ridiculously stingy art budget? It probably has more to do with that.

??? Graphics for the items are there already. They have that item description box which shows the graphic in the inventory screen, so they would have to have graphics for all of them. So what art budget? To draw a grid?

 

[Borelli]

Why wouldn't console be able to use a grid? Also, wouldn't grid be superior on tablet, which started this whole debate?

Because up/down/left/right works well in a list and works shitty in a grid? Basically, the reason any developer ever has given for using lists on their console games.

I've never played a console rpg that has grids but i could theoretically imagine myself moving around a grid using an analog stick.

Another solution is, don't make a game in which you will end up with a massive quantity of items. Games like KOTOR, Witcher 2 and Mass Effect are guilty of this. I mean these are games where you need a fuckin filter to find what you need. Do you remember needing filters in old school games? Me neither.

 

[Brother None]

I am also enjoying derailing the PE thread with WL2. Payback bitches!

Because up/down/left/right works well in a list and works shitty in a grid? Basically, the reason any developer ever has given for using lists on their console games.

In practice I don't see why it wouldn't work better than the really messed up seeded lists many console games use right now. Just because no one is doing it doesn't mean it can't be done. And again, it's better for tablets. And then consider inXile's primary revenue source for years now has been smartphones and tablets. The smart money for porting says "go grid"!

The "Fallout had a list, so it's 'k"-defense is the only hilarious thing here.

That wasn't really my point, I don't mind people hating lists on various principles. I do mean to say it is an odd conclusion to say that because something uses the SAME type of inventory as its predecessor, that points to a design decision made for console. My main point being that if you really, honestly believe consoles had anything to do with us going list, you're an idiot. And I don't say that as an ad hominem, just a statement of fact. Nor is it meant to reduce criticism. Rail and hate on inventory all you want, please do, I enjoy it, but fuck consoles.

Graphics for the items are there already.

Not really, a lot of items use the same graphic for budget reasons, which would make it unusable on a grid. If we do get to a point where we have graphics of high enough quality (creating graphics from the ingame renders which are very low-poly was also not an option) then the consideration for list vs grid inventory changes.

 

[FeelTheRads]

Not really, a lot of items use the same graphic for budget reasons,

Well, at least that makes more sense now.

Edit: Is it cheaper, though, to have 15-20 animations per skill? Seems weird to complain about art budget and then in another topic complain how you can't do stances because you have a ton of animations.

Funny how having generic animations isn't "just like Fallout".

 

[hiver]

Fallout does not have a list.

 

[Athelas]

What Fallout has is worse than a list. At least a list lets you view more than 3 items at a time.

 

[Kaldurenik]

Well to be honest i dont see how a grid can be good for consoles unless you limit the grid itself greatly. While for PC well almost any ui work... Everything from Menu's to lists to grid or whatever you want to use. Tablets can almost use whatever but in general from my experience its abit annoying to click on way to many things on a tablet. Its not like with a mouse where you move the mouse 1mm to get where you want.

But anyway... It depends what Sawyer meant i will wait untill the next major update or whatever it was and hopefully there will be some new game related screenshot then

And i dont like fallouts inventory ui... Its one of the worst list based ui's i have seen.

 

[hiver]

youre a retard newfag moron.

The only thing that a list lets you see is a list - not the items.

 

[Grunker]

My main point being that if you really, honestly believe consoles had anything to do with us going list, you're an idiot.

Out of curiosity, who in this thread actually made this allegation? All I see is you punching the poor strawman full of holes. But hey, I might very well have missed the single post that made this allegation, as well as the fact that your comment was only in response to that post. I don't really understand how you are amused by "the debate" when the only allegation you find fun is one which isn't even a popular statement, but hey, to each his own.

 

[Infinitron]

IF they only started to think about a console port later, I wouldn't have any issues. But when suddenly W2 has a shitty console-friendly inventory just like Oblivion, Skyrim, F3 and New Vegas had due multi-platform release, one can't help but wonder the reasons behind that... reasons that were never addressed nor explained.

To me that's the exact same as suddenly seeing a W2 screenshot with a dialog-wheel system. This is a PC exclusive, sold as so. Making console-friendly choices without any good reason behind it is nothing but suspicious.

 

[Grunker]

Fair enough, I missed the direct allegation in felipepepe's post which I agree is not that sensical. What I liked about it is the comparison to the dialogue wheel. Just because it wasn't made with some secret console-agenda doesn't mean it isn't console-like (for bad reasons), and the inclusion of list inventories is pretty much as bad as that.

That, and it is not as if the debate was about that, as I've previously stated. In the end, the results are the same: lists suck, and whether they do as an attribute of consoles or not is besides the point.

 

[Chaotic_Heretic]

"It has the same type of inventory as Wasteland 1 and Fallout had! WHAT DECLINE!!!!!"

Arcanum had shitty, broken as fuck combat. Let us Replicate it. We are being faithful to the original ! INCLINE!!!!

Not really, a lot of items use the same graphic for budget reasons,

Well, at least that makes more sense now.

Edit: Is it cheaper, though, to have 15-20 animations per skill? Seems weird to complain about art budget and then in another topic complain how you can't do stances because you have a ton of animations.

Funny how having generic animations isn't "just like Fallout".

 

[Excidium]

Just popping in to say that list is a superior form of inventory and Wasteland 2 just had a shitty implementation of it.

 

[FeelTheRads]

Just popping in to say that list is a superior form of inventory

Why?

inb4 grid is tetris lolz

 

[Infinitron]

Oh god not this again

 

[Excidium]

Just popping in to say that list is a superior form of inventory

Why?

inb4 grid is tetris lolz

Because it's a more efficient way of listing things, all the essential information becomes available at a glance, instead of unrecognizable little icons you have to inspect one by one.

 

[Rake]

Oh god not this again

I quite like that in all the megathreads we are disqussing the same shit. Just merge W2 and PE threads together.
The complains will be the same anyway. W2 is designed for consoles, PE for tablets, Fargo is a disgusting liar, Sawyer a retard etc.

 

[Grunker]

Just popping in to say that list is a superior form of inventory

Why?

inb4 grid is tetris lolz

excidium has already listed his spectacularly retarded reasons in another thread, no reason for a do-over

 

[Edward_R_Murrow]

In practice I don't see why it wouldn't work better than the really messed up seeded lists many console games use right now. Just because no one is doing it doesn't mean it can't be done.

The console ports of both Morrowind and Risen used a grid-based inventory and it worked fine. I preferred navigating them to the dreadful scrollfests of Bethesda games (and even the Souls games; dat Bottomless Box...ugh). Not to mention the console-exclusive Dragon's Dogma used a bunch of tabbed grids for it's inventory and worked great with little to no complaints.

It really isn't a console thing, just some strange notion that seems to be in the heads of many game developers for whatever reason.