Obsidian's Pillars of Eternity [BETA RELEASED, GO TO THE NEW THREAD]

[Excidium]

Just popping in to say that list is a superior form of inventory

Why?

inb4 grid is tetris lolz

excidium has already listed his spectacularly retarded reasons in another thread, no reason for a do-over

I like your non-existant arguments. At least blob fans recognize it's inferior to a combat grid instead of disputing by simply trying to gather support, icon kids are truly the worst we have to offer.

 

[Grunker]

Just popping in to say that list is a superior form of inventory

Why?

inb4 grid is tetris lolz

excidium has already listed his spectacularly retarded reasons in another thread, no reason for a do-over

Yeah, I and several people provided extensive arguments in the other thread. You want me to copy/paste those posts here? Get outta here.

 

[Excidium]

All arguments based on poor implementation of list invetories.

 

[FeelTheRads]

Because it's a more efficient way of listing things, all the essential information becomes available at a glance, instead of unrecognizable little icons you have to inspect one by one.

Any examples of inventory lists where all that "essential" information is displayed and not just a name? And icons are easier/quicker to recognize than text and a grid makes better use of space. Fuck scrolling up and down all the time for that "essential" information.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

Fallout's inventory system would be competent if the item icons were about 20 times smaller.

You'd still have the problem of slowly scrolling through all your items whenever you want to check one in particular.

 

[Rake]

All arguments based on poor implementation of list invetories.

Give me one example of a list inventory that got it right

 

[Excidium]

Because it's a more efficient way of listing things, all the essential information becomes available at a glance, instead of unrecognizable little icons you have to inspect one by one.

Any examples of inventory lists where all that "essential" information is displayed and not just a name?

None from the top of my head. Most games that use list inventories are too old to fit much information on their small resolutions or newer console games where such information is not very important.

And icons are easier/quicker to recognize than text and a grid makes better use of space.

Maybe if you are illiterate.

Fuck scrolling up and down all the time for that "essential" information.

Old games with super small resolutions and newer games where everything is huge so you can read from across the living room. No such problem in a modern CRPG that isn't actually shit.

All arguments based on poor implementation of list invetories.

Give me one example of a list inventory that got it right

Is this a serious question? I can list you a thousand that have done it wrong, like everything regarding CRPGs.

But it's not a rocket science, not much difference from your skill list or what have you.

 

[Lancehead]

Here's a list inventory that does it right. And it only uses half the screen.

Spoiler

 

[Excidium]

SkyUI fails by not showing the damage and armor value of things, among other usability features such as dragging stuff around...but it certainly does the best with what it has.

 

[SerratedBiz]

Obviously the problem lies not with the inventory list but with how you implement it, which makes

Give me one example of a list inventory that got it right

a perfectly retarded counterargument. Just because it hasn't been done well before doesn't mean you can't do it well this time.

 

[Brother None]

So you're essentially arguing for list UIs as spreadsheet, full information type things? Interesting idea, but I'm not sure the readability of such an inventory screen would be great though, which is probably why it hasn't been done before.

a perfectly retarded counterargument.

Hello and welcome to RPGCodex.

 

[FeelTheRads]

Maybe if you are illiterate.

lolz k bro you got me

Icons are for the illiterate. Looks like you know your design.

 

[Lancehead]

SkyUI fails by not showing the damage and armor value of things, among other usability features such as dragging stuff around...but it certainly does the best with what it has.

It does show.

You have to click the hammer icon top right to select the parameters.

I don't really care much for dragging around considering how many ways I can sort stuff. The only real flaw I see with SkyUI is lack of custom sections.

 

[FeelTheRads]

So you're essentially arguing for list UIs as spreadsheet, full information type things?

Would certainly be more useful than what you have. Which, in terms of displaying information is worse than a grid.
Think of Fallout's character screen and then think of Fallout 3's character screen(s). All information needed in one place vs. spread out over several screens. One is perfectly usable, the other one is straight-out retarded.

 

[Shadenuat]

So you're essentially arguing for list UIs as spreadsheet, full information type things? Interesting idea, but I'm not sure the readability of such an inventory screen would be great though, which is probably why it hasn't been done before.

Yeah, give 'em microsoft excel sheet as an inventory, and players could type item descriptions and stats themselves. That will teach list lovers good

 

[Excidium]

So you're essentially arguing for list UIs as spreadsheet, full information type things? Interesting idea, but I'm not sure the readability of such an inventory screen would be great though, which is probably why it hasn't been done before.

Well you don't need to offer every information. Just the essential, like weight, a weapon's damage and ammo or a piece of armour's rating. More in-depth info like fire rates can just be inspected.

So you're essentially arguing for list UIs as spreadsheet, full information type things? Interesting idea, but I'm not sure the readability of such an inventory screen would be great though, which is probably why it hasn't been done before.

Yeah, give 'em microsoft excel sheet as an inventory, and players could type item descriptions and stats themselves. That will teach list lovers good

You don't do that already? Some RPG players on the RPG Codex

 

[Jim the Dinosaur]

I would love excel sheet inventories, click on max damage header to sort all weapons based on max damage, etc. Don't even see the need for a dragging option. Really don't see the attraction of grid inventories unless it's the whole "I like sorting" thing Infinitron always comes with.

 

[Dorateen]

It could also be more convenient to have a one-button interface on a laptop, then you just have to use one finger for everything.

One finger is all a real Dwarf needs.

 

[Grunker]

All arguments based on poor implementation of list invetories.

Arguments based on hypotheticals are better now?

Another RPG Codex poster who can solve RPGs based on their own imaginations but with no empirical examples. The arrogance is staggering. You're like the J. E. Sawyer of inventories.

 

[Jim the Dinosaur]

Aren't you the guy who criticized Wasteland 2's combat by referring to GURPS a while ago? Criticizing crpg design purely on the basis of "empirical examples" of other crpg's is just conservative circle jerking.

 

[tuluse]

I would love excel sheet inventories, click on max damage header to sort all weapons based on max damage, etc. Don't even see the need for a dragging option. Really don't see the attraction of grid inventories unless it's the whole "I like sorting" thing Infinitron always comes with.

If it's one item per grid cell it doesn't really do much, but I think managing both size/shape and weight creates more interesting decisions to make. Bring on the tetris I say.

 

[Grunker]

Aren't you the guy who criticized Wasteland 2's combat by referring to GURPS a while ago? Criticizing crpg design purely on the basis of "empirical examples" of other crpg's is just conservative circle jerking.

No, I used GURPS to make a point, I didn't say "lol, Wasteland 2 sucks because it's not GURPS!" That would be stupid.

Not that your criticism is at all relevant to the point I was making.

 

[Liston]

Arguments based on hypotheticals are better now?

Another RPG Codex poster who can solve RPGs based on their own imaginations but with no empirical examples. The arrogance is staggering. You're like the J. E. Sawyer of inventories.

Hyperbole much? He wasn't talking about "solving RPGs" he was talking about very specific and narrow problem. His solution is really clear from his explanation, but I guess that whenever you have to solve some problem the only acceptable solution is to point out to how someone else did it and say exactly like that.

Displaying list of objects in GUIs is done the exact same way he described it for decades. Almost every file manager, ftp client, torrent client, music player, video player etc is displaying list of objects in the way he described it.

 

[SCO]

I like 'spreadsheet' convenience (especially with different selectable orderings, aka column sorting and filtering by category) but also like just plain inventory items for the aesthetics.
Seeing the stats difference from equipped stuff is essential as a substitute for the spreadsheet though, if they go that way.

 

[Grunker]

Arguments based on hypotheticals are better now?

Another RPG Codex poster who can solve RPGs based on their own imaginations but with no empirical examples. The arrogance is staggering. You're like the J. E. Sawyer of inventories.

Hyperbole much? He wasn't talking about "solving RPGs" he was talking about very specific and narrow problem. His solution is really clear from his explanation, but I guess that whenever you have to solve some problem the only acceptable solution is to point out to how someone else did it and say exactly like that.

Displaying list of objects in GUIs is done the exact same way he described it for decades. Almost every file manager, ftp client, torrent client, music player, video player etc is displaying list of objects in the way he described it.

In that case SkyUI would be the exact thing you guys would be clamoring for, which would be odd since: 1) SkyUI is horrible (though a vast improvement on its predecessor) and 2) Excidium says he is not clamoring for SkyUI.

Excel list inventories have been done before, and they are avoided when possible because readability and easy overview is pretty bad. The closest comparison is wanting RPGs to look more like Tycoon games or SIMS (they're pretty much all structured in excel-layouts) and I can't imagine a less aesthetically pleasing or obnoxius inventory layout.

But then, the argument for excel lists sounds more and more like a completely functionalist one that ignores any other aspect of UI design, so there's that.