Obsidian's Pillars of Eternity [BETA RELEASED, GO TO THE NEW THREAD]

[Roguey]

We already knew that.

Probably baby duck syndrome. He probably played LoL first or that's what his friends play. I've noticed that people who play LoL first instead of DotA prefer it because it's easier and a less hostile environment, it also has a more zynga-based design to hook people in.

That still doesn't excuse it though, scum of the earth.

DOTA is a bad game with a bunch of pointless required actions made by amateurs.

 

[Sensuki]

We already knew that.

Probably baby duck syndrome. He probably played LoL first or that's what his friends play. I've noticed that people who play LoL first instead of DotA prefer it because it's easier and a less hostile environment, it also has a more zynga-based design to hook people in.

That still doesn't excuse it though, scum of the earth.

DOTA is a bad game with a bunch of pointless required actions made by amateurs.

Hahaha, okay, yet it's the best competitive e-sport at the moment. Most of the best e-sports came from mods or starting up independent companies, not people who sperg about 'perfect design' and try to be accommodating to all players.

SC2 is dead (Blizzard killed it, surprise), CS:GO was fucked from the beginning and the older game communities are pretty small (quake, 1.6, brood war - though still big in asia).

I do believe that the game has been tarnished by the industry, with several companies vying for the rights to the IP and of course the free-to-play stuff. I am thankful that the actual game is kept separate from anything to do with the F2P stuff though, unlike every other Moba which makes you pay to unlock heroes and all that bullshit.

I am a bit worried about many of the recent changes though, like speeding up the gold rate and whatnot. It is possible that the developers are a bit worried about market share and as a result might pleb the game into "20-20 Cricket", when 50 overs is clearly the most superior format.

 

[Arkeus]

Spoiler

You don't even need to click on the item, either hover over with mouse or navigate to using W and S. I don't know if seeing the in-game model of the item makes play more involving to me, but that's your argument, so for you to decide. What I will say is that in-game art is not exclusively the domain of grids.

This doesn't work though, because the 'main' part is the list, not the icon. You don't go icon => Data, you go Data + "hey if you want you can look at an icon".

The 'first step' when you see the weapon is not the image, but actually the name of the weapon amongst other name, and that's until you hover over it with your mouse. It's a totally different 'feel'.

It ALSO emphasises the Stats, which brings the trouble from before. Stats => all, and stats, while fun in the beginning of a game, are also what makes it boring.[/quote]

 

[uaciaut]

Duraframe300 Post sources dammit

Josh Sawyer told WIRED via phone

We already knew that.

Probably baby duck syndrome. He probably played LoL first or that's what his friends play. I've noticed that people who play LoL first instead of DotA prefer it because it's easier and a less hostile environment, it also has a more zynga-based design to hook people in.

That still doesn't excuse it though, scum of the earth.

DOTA is a bad game with a bunch of pointless required actions made by amateurs.

Hahaha, okay, yet it's the best competitive e-sport at the moment. Most of the best e-sports came from mods or starting up independent companies, not people who sperg about 'perfect design' and try to be accommodating to all players.

SC2 is dead (Blizzard killed it, surprise), CS:GO was fucked from the beginning and the older game communities are pretty small (quake, 1.6, brood war - though still big in asia).

I like how you call it "best" and then talk about other competitive games which are dying/small to better illustrate that and never mention LoL which is much bigger in size. If biggest makes it best, well it's not the best. You can call it the best based on other criteria you make but it's your fucking opinion which makes it subjective.
P.S. CS:GO is potentially making a comeback, valve is dropping a quarter million on a big tournament soon.

 

[Suicidal]

The people who are furiously arguing against item comparison pop-ups and other convenient modern interface features strike me as a kind of pretentious neckbeards who still play games on old windows 98 computers with 640*480 CRT monitors in their dimly lit basements and think that their preference for older less convenient methods in their video games somehow makes them more intelligent human beings than those who like their video games with a more modern UI.

 

[hiver]

The people who are furiously arguing against item comparison pop-ups

Name one and quote that "fury" for proof - lying asshole.

and other convenient modern interface features strike me as a kind of pretentious neckbeards who still play games on old windows 98 computers with 640*480 CRT monitors

You strike me as an obvious cheap moron.

in their dimly lit basements

:slow clap:

and think that their preference for older less convenient methods

Which would be.... ? Which ones exactly? Or are you just talking out of your ass because something made you butthurt?

in their video games somehow makes them more intelligent human beings than those who like their video games with a more modern UI.

Since modern Uis are mass market accessible - consolized, tabletized shit... well... now that you mention it... i guess we are. Yes.

Which is also clearly visible when someone juxtaposes this "post" of yours to those written by people not so enthusiastic about those "modern Uis".

 

[Jim the Dinosaur]

Grunker, if good itemization means lots of non-linear differences in the form of special bonuses/penalties, then I'd think lists would be even more of an advantage. Imagine 10 different weapons in your inventory like Celestial Fury, which "Stuns opponents unless it make a save vs. spells. 5% chance 20 electrical damage is inflicted. Blindness and Lightning Strike may be used once per day." That's three special bonuses; try memorizing that 10 times over. I'd prefer "special effect 1", "special effect 2", etc. columns over clicking each weapon seperately and forgetting the properties half way through.

right clicking so painful

I know this comparison was made earlier (I think by Lancehead), but if you've ever played a Football Manager game, those have a very expansive form of non-linear "itemization" (modern footballers as items :socialcommentary: ). Try figuring out which player to buy for a certain price without filtering and sorting through a list: right clicking for details every time would simply necessitate writing down all the details. I'm convinced that the same would apply to shopping through 20 different types of weapons with a variety of bonuses/penalties. This isn't necessary in a game like BG2 because it has pretty linear itemization due to the rigidity of weapon specialization (almost all non-linear comparisons cross weapon types so that you'll practically never be in a situation where you need to decide whether to use the Wave or Celestial Fury).

 

[Sensuki]

I like how you call it "best" and then talk about other competitive games which are dying/small to better illustrate that and never mention LoL which is much bigger in size. If biggest makes it best, well it's not the best. You can call it the best based on other criteria you make but it's your fucking opinion which makes it subjective.
P.S. CS:GO is potentially making a comeback, valve is dropping a quarter million on a big tournament soon.

CS:GO is an inferior game to 1.6 which will always be the best counter-strike version (although I personally think 1.5 was the best). CS:GO (and CSS before it) is a laugh in comparison.

Playing DotA takes way more skill than LoL does. I don't care if LoL has a bigger community, DotA was the original moba and it is the most complex and has the largest skill gap and skill ceiling of all similar games. League of Legends might have a competitive scene but it is by and large a casual game with built-in zynga-based design philosophies and it has several casual non-'dota' modes. One thing it does better is that it is the only moba that I know of that was actually able to do successful alternate maps/gametypes. DotA and HoN's alternate maps were nothing short of terrible. The DotA ones (usually seasonal/themed like 'Christmas mode' or whatever) only exist for item farming.

It is a technically superior game. LoL is more simple and streamlined and the skill gap and skill ceiling are not as large as DotA and thus terrible in comparison - the equivalent to the recent CoD modern warfare titles where they've dumbed it down so much that any idiot can play. If you (plural) want to be the equivalent of a moba-popamole faggot who cannot into denies and subsequent game mechanics - LoL your life away like a pathetic weasel.

 

[felipepepe]

This isn't necessary in a game like BG2 because it has pretty linear itemization due to the rigidity of weapon specialization (almost all non-linear comparisons cross weapon types so that you'll practically never be in a situation where you need to decide whether to use the Wave or Celestial Fury).

BULLSHIT.

The only linear progression you have is that +1 is better than normal and +2 is better than +1. There are 19 long swords and 18 two-handed swords in the game, all with completly different abilities that in no way are linear. Tell me, how do you sort in a list between Lilacor, Flame of the North, Sword of Chaos +2, Hallowed Redeemer, Silver Sword and the Cursed Berserking Sword +3 ?

 

[FeelTheRads]

The only linear progression you have is that +1 is better than normal and +2 is better than +1. There are 19 long swords and 18 two-handed swords in the game, all with completly different abilities that in no way are linear. Tell me, how do you sort in a list between Lilacor, Flame of the North, Sword of Chaos +2, Hallowed Redeemer, Silver Sword and the Cursed Berserking Sword +3 ?

He already said in another post... show, in a list, the text describing the abilities. Yeah, would be readable as fuck. And probably allow as many items at one time as the Fallout inventory does.

Edit: Never mind, you asked about sorting, which makes even less sense.

 

[Suicidal]

butthurt

I wasn't targeting you specifically with my post but seeing how mad that made you it seems I hit close to home, huh.

Also I don't think people who honestly think that their electronic entertainment preferences somehow make them better than others with different preferences are worth arguing with. I guess your tag is not just for show - you truly deserve it.

 

[hiver]

butthurt

I wasn't targeting you specifically

It was a rather big blanket statement, that is factually wrong (unless you can prove it otherwise), but what i objected to actually was rather clear - inventing cheap blatant lies so you can feel better about your stupid preferences.

with my post but seeing how mad that made you it seems I hit close to home, huh.

Nope. That just blatantly confirms what i said. Youre a cheap blatant asshole.
You have no arguments - you cannot quote anything to support your cheap lies - that were put there in the first place so you can "return the butthurt" that you so obviously feel.

Instead of providing some when challenged to do so, you just flipped back to basically repeating what you already stated - with more unsupported lies and feeble attempts of insults.

Also I don't think people who honestly think that their electronic entertainment preferences somehow make them better than others with different preferences are worth arguing with. I guess your tag is not just for show - you truly deserve it.

The funny thing is - is that you are proving that yourself, with what youre posting.
All preferences are not equally worthy, btw. Things are not so relative.

You prove that point very exactly.

Ending with a very cheap and blatant attempt of another insult - considering all about it - just hammers that fact down.

 

[Jim the Dinosaur]

This isn't necessary in a game like BG2 because it has pretty linear itemization due to the rigidity of weapon specialization (almost all non-linear comparisons cross weapon types so that you'll practically never be in a situation where you need to decide whether to use the Wave or Celestial Fury).

BULLSHIT.

The only linear progression you have is that +1 is better than normal and +2 is better than +1. There are 19 long swords and 18 two-handed swords in the game, all with completly different abilities that in no way are linear. Tell me, how do you sort in a list between Lilacor, Flame of the North, Sword of Chaos +2, Hallowed Redeemer, Silver Sword and the Cursed Berserking Sword +3 ?

Guess you're right. Bonuses/penalties in BG's don't let themselves get categorized (at least not without an insane amount of categories), which I guess is what Grunker likes about them. But suppose you have a post-apoc setting where you have to sort through a shopkeep's weapons which are all in varying states of decay: not just a general 80% working or whatever, but each component has its own value that impacts how the gun functions. I think the football manager comparison would at least work there and make it preferable to a grid (even if you have big icons, there's only so much in terms of disrepair you can represent graphically).

 

[Suicidal]

more butthurt

I merely think that each person has a right to his or her own preferences and find people who start raging at some aspect of a video game and attacking everyone who prefers that aspect kinda stupid. A person who likes item comparison boxes is equal in my eyes to one who does not like them. However, a person who does not like them and thinks that everyone who does is wrong and is worse than him is a moron.

Also, don't expect me to argue with you when all you can do is rage and call me names. I don't have the time and patience for mentally unstable internet kids, sorry.

 

[hiver]

Well, i can tell you a place where the scheme is a bit clumsy. If you have a item that can be equipped in more than one slot - like rings traditionally - you 'have' to show the differences on the equipped items on all slots it can be equipped (if not empty anyway). That also complicates 'click equipping' needing some sort of cycling pattern to be usable.

There is a bit more efficient solution to this.

AoD has two smaller spaces where all information between two items youre comparing is displayed.
I cant remember right now if they are doing it just by hovering above the item in inventory that you want to compare with an equipped one, but i would do it a bit differently.

Instead of hovering - i would make it a function of a right-click drop down menu (that they already have). Just add "compare" order and that locks the items in those compare screens - which would allow for scrolling down - if thats necessary.

It was a rather big blanket statement, that is factually wrong (unless you can prove it otherwise), but what i objected to actually was rather clear - inventing cheap blatant lies so you can feel better about your stupid preferences.

- Nope. That just blatantly confirms what i said. Youre a cheap blatant asshole.
You have no arguments - you cannot quote anything to support your cheap lies - that were put there in the first place so you can "return the butthurt" that you so obviously feel.

Instead of providing some when challenged to do so, you just flipped back to basically repeating what you already stated - with more unsupported lies and feeble attempts of insults.

-​

The funny thing is - is that you are proving that yourself, with what youre posting.
All preferences are not equally worthy, btw. Things are not so relative.

You prove that point very exactly.

Ending with a very cheap and blatant attempt of another insult - considering all about it - just hammers that fact down.

I merely think that each person has a right to his or her own preferences and find people who start raging at some aspect of a video game and attacking everyone who prefers that aspect kinda stupid. A person who likes item comparison boxes is equal in my eyes to one who does not like them. However, a person who does not like them and thinks that everyone who does is wrong and is worse than him is a moron.

Also, don't expect me to argue with you when all you can do is rage and call me names. I don't have the time and patience for mentally unstable internet kids, sorry.

But that is what you are doing idiot.
You started with insults, names, with blatant lies and with blatantly being the one who is butthurt.

Crying wont absolve you from the fact that you are blatantly lying in a very cheap way and cannot prove any of your idiotic points.
Which makes you a blatant fucking imbecile. And a piece of shit.

 

[Onholyservicebound]

I wasn't targeting you specifically with my post but seeing how mad that made you it seems I hit close to home, huh.

Also I don't think people who honestly think that their electronic entertainment preferences somehow make them better than others with different preferences are worth arguing with. I guess your tag is not just for show - you truly deserve it.

You did target him, you pretty much illustrated that by your assumption on the second line; you just did it indirectly like a passive aggressive faggot, then acted like he was butthurt for replying to a comment blatantly attempting to misrepresent his side of the argument.

 

[felipepepe]

But then you're going into Borderlands-style of itemization:

IMHO it's kind of okay for diablo-like grind/lootfest, but has no place in a regular RPG. The moment you break items down to "+1% critical chance and +2 DPS", you're removing any value they individually possess and turning them into mere chunks of stats, that obviously are better sorted in a excel sheet. Sure, you get tons more items, but I can't recall any of the conuntless items in Diablo III or Borderlands that are are cool or memorable as Lilacor, Carsomyr or pretty much any of the weapons in Baldur's Gate.

 

[Grunker]

Grunker, if good itemization means lots of non-linear differences in the form of special bonuses/penalties, then I'd think lists would be even more of an advantage. Imagine 10 different weapons in your inventory like Celestial Fury, which "Stuns opponents unless it make a save vs. spells. 5% chance 20 electrical damage is inflicted. Blindness and Lightning Strike may be used once per day." That's three special bonuses; try memorizing that 10 times over. I'd prefer "special effect 1", "special effect 2", etc. columns over clicking each weapon seperately and forgetting the properties half way through.

right clicking so painful

I know this comparison was made earlier (I think by Lancehead), but if you've ever played a Football Manager game, those have a very expansive form of non-linear "itemization" (modern footballers as items :socialcommentary: ). Try figuring out which player to buy for a certain price without filtering and sorting through a list: right clicking for details every time would simply necessitate writing down all the details. I'm convinced that the same would apply to shopping through 20 different types of weapons with a variety of bonuses/penalties. This isn't necessary in a game like BG2 because it has pretty linear itemization due to the rigidity of weapon specialization (almost all non-linear comparisons cross weapon types so that you'll practically never be in a situation where you need to decide whether to use the Wave or Celestial Fury).

I play football manager extensively, and I always hated their comparison system because it is so unwieldly, though I realize they couldn't do much else with the amount of numbers, and a comparison mode is REQUIRED by the game because there are so many features you need to compare.

Again, not so with the IE games. The above is Yet Another Example of a shitty system being required because of content.

 

[Grunker]

also: someone is white-knighting hiver, now I have fucking seen everything

 

[hiver]

Plus, it even color codes the difference so you really dont even need to read any of the specific at all.
I wonder how long it will take them to remove the numbers completely and just go with green(blue) vs red. And then add smiley icons to really drive it home.

also: someone is white-knighting hiver, now I have fucking seen everything

is this your "smart" way to feel a bit less butthurt?

look man, it wasnt me that forced you to stop talking to a dev about interesting stuff and run to ubisoft party while proclaiming how its not anyone's fault, but the "system is bad".

 

[Suicidal]

Crying wont absolve you from the fact that you are blatantly lying in a very cheap way and cannot prove any of your idiotic points.

Lying about what? I said I think that people who believe that their video game preferences are 'right' and others are wrong for thinking otherwise are delusional. That's all there is to it.

Youre a cheap blatant asshole... a blatant fucking imbecile. And a piece of shit.

Quality debating skills. Have you considered anger management classes?

 

[hiver]

i was banned from anger management class.
Also, thats not a debate.

also, thats not what you said darling. This is what you said:

The people who are furiously arguing against item comparison pop-ups and other convenient modern interface features strike me as a kind of pretentious neckbeards who still play games on old windows 98 computers with 640*480 CRT monitors in their dimly lit basements and think that their preference for older less convenient methods in their video games somehow makes them more intelligent human beings than those who like their video games with a more modern UI.

And then repeatedly failed (tried to avoid in a very blatant way) to prove that anyone is saying or thinking that. Ending with actually affirming that distinction, by your own example.

Now if you want, we can go on repeating this for another hundred pages of me beating you over the head with your own words.
Thats going to prove something alright. (it already did but it seems youre not capable of grasping that with your intellect)

 

[Rake]

Crying wont absolve you from the fact that you are blatantly lying in a very cheap way and cannot prove any of your idiotic points.

Lying about what? I said I think that people who believe that their video game preferences are 'right' and others are wrong for thinking otherwise are stupid. That's all there is to it.

Youre a cheap blatant asshole... a blatant fucking imbecile. And a piece of shit.

Quality debating skills. Have you considered anger management classes?

Look, just reread your first post.
You were insulting to those who disagreed with you, hiver insulted you back, and then you went to mode becuse he calls you names, and flip floped that the choice in entairtainment doesn't make one better than the other while it was you that started the insults.
I don't even care who's opinion is right or wrong here, but your debating skills need work.

 

[Chaotic_Heretic]

Suicidal was being passive aggressive. Also hiver was making sense... even if he was being flowery and eloquent in his posting.

 

[Suicidal]

that the choice in entairtainment doesn't make one better than the other while it was you that started the insults.

That was the idea behind my first post, and yes it was an indirect insult, but hey, people like hiver were insulting the intelligence of people who like modern mechanics in their games a few pages back, I don't see why I can't insult people like hiver with my post afterwards. Fight poop-flinging with poop-flinging.