Obsidian's Pillars of Eternity [BETA RELEASED, GO TO THE NEW THREAD]

[Grunker]

Of course you can discuss the merits of various systems. That doesn't mean, however, that there has to be a measurably better system.

There doesn't "have to" be.
But you can measure the delivery, functionality and impact of a system (in relation to the other system) and come to a conclusion that it is objectively better because of what it does and how even if you personally liked the other one better for what ever reason.

yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion, man

 

[undecaf]

My opinion is better than yours is better than mine.

 

[SophosTheWise]

What passes on here under "objectively" is laughable.

​

Jessie: You better motherfucking recognize! Your opinion be true because it's your opinion!

Yeah, that's not even what I said, but, really, it's okay. I'm into constructivism and structuralism, you're not. I can live with that

Fortunately, no social constructivist with half a brain would claim something as blatantly false as "truth is subjective."

Again, that's not what I said.

Edit: Even though it remains to discuss if objective truth exists at all, but this is, as you've pointed out, not a philosophy forum. And congrats on your analysis.

I only brought it up because it was ironic seeing as you postulated I "wasn't into constructivism."

Also: objective truth exists, even if it was (it isn't) a construct

peace nigga

I'd really like to continue this discussion but I fear we may drift into the depths of off-topic:

Also: reality is only a construct of language, which is the only a priori phenomenon in existence (now we're cooking)

 

[Grunker]

(now we're cooking)

nigga we barely even turned on the fucking stove

 

[SophosTheWise]

(now we're cooking)

nigga we barely even turned on the fucking stove

 

[hiver]

You guys are talking to an utter imbecile. And youre trying to explain things to him through logic and common sense.
While all that fucking waste of organic matter is interested in is protecting his emotional engagement.

There is no talking to an idiot.
He simply disregards whatever he doesnt like, what he barely understands but doesnt like he simply converts to what fits his agenda the best.
And he simply repeats the same idiotic shit he splurged the first time indefinitely, thinking thats the way to win.

Also: reality is only a construct of language

correlate his nickname, his avatar and this sentence

 

[SophosTheWise]

You guys are talking to an utter imbecile. And youre trying to explain things to him through logic and common sense.
While all that fucking waste of organic matter is interested in is protecting his emotional engagement.

There is no talking to an idiot.
He simply disregards whatever he doesnt like, what he barely understands but doesnt like he simply converts to what fits his agenda the best.
And he simply repeats the same idiotic shit he splurged the first time indefinitely, thinking thats the way to win.

Also: reality is only a construct of language

correlate his nickname, his avatar and this sentence

Edit: What emotional engagement?

 

[hiver]

Personal preferences, man.

Another relativist? It's like a infestation. Man.

Even if there was a system that's superior that doesn't matter as long as personal preferences exist. Because I, for one, do not care about being wrong about which inventory system I prefer, as long as I can play with my preferred systems. Yes, it's relativism, but, at least it's applicable.

This one, you stupid asshole.

The statement that it doesnt matter TO YOU if there is an actually better system (or anything else for that matter - i bet) if you simply prefer a different one.
And you even say that you dont care about being wrong.
That means that all you think and do is coming straight from your asshole.

And that makes whatever you fucking say and think absolutely irrelevant. Except to yourself - and thats fucking irrelevant to anyone else.

This is stating "hey people, im bloody stupid but i dont care because i enjoy it!"



MORON.

 

[SophosTheWise]

Personal preferences, man.

Another relativist? It's like a infestation. Man.

Even if there was a system that's superior that doesn't matter as long as personal preferences exist. Because I, for one, do not care about being wrong about which inventory system I prefer, as long as I can play with my preferred systems. Yes, it's relativism, but, at least it's applicable.

This one, you stupid asshole.

The statement that it doesnt matter TO YOU if there is an actually better system (or anything else for that matter - i bet) if you simply prefer a different one.
And you even say that you dont care about being wrong.
That means that all you think and do is coming straight from your asshole.

And that makes whatever you fucking say and think absolutely irrelevant. Except to yourself - and thats fucking irrelevant to anyone else.

This is stating "hey people, im bloody stupid but i dont care because i enjoy it!"



MORON.

I think you misunderstood.
First of all, I said that I dispute the measurability of quality in a system. Sure, you can define a model for your system in which you set some variables which poorly represent an (one) understanding of quality. I think you're not so stupid as to really think quality is a universal constant like, maybe, the speed of light. If you do, then we've nailed down the part where we obviously disagree.
In my opinion, there are different understandings of abstract things like quality. I couldn't care less about some "codexian objectively right" definition. Because it can't be the only definition and I haven't seen an argument which undisputably can somehow exclude other systems based on their understanding of quality (-> what matters in a system).

Thus, I do not care if you think I'm wrong. Because I know that I'm not necessarily wrong.

And that makes whatever you fucking say and think absolutely irrelevant. Except to yourself - and thats fucking irrelevant to anyone else.

Even though that's kind of true. And it applies to anyone. But hey, I'm just a relativist

 

[hiver]

That doesnt really explain anything. You just repeated the same stupid shit, only in a bit few more words.
You see everything through the lens of your selfish interpretation and you chose what fits YOU the best. You are therefore an inverted closed loop of selfishness.
Its not me who misunderstands anything youre saying. You are pretty simple.
Its you who cannot understand anything outside of that scope to which you limit yourself.

The fact that someone like you is so arrogant to "dispute the measurability of quality in a system" ... ahahaha... is just gravy.

I think you're not so stupid as to really think quality is a universal constant like, maybe, the speed of light. If you do, then we've nailed down the part where we obviously disagree.

This is another symptom of people like you. Youre only capable of thinking in laughable binary extremes. The only way you can represent the opposing thinking to yours - is to simply invent some ridiculous extreme version of it as the only OTHER thing that can exist - which makes it laughable to you. A thing that cannot be seriously considered at all that.. haha... you actually went and invented yourself.
(yes, yes, you will retort with "but isnt this what you are doing now?" in order to protect your fucking ego, save it)

Youre just a solipsist, living and existing only in your head. A masturbator.
(while you are actually not - but you will pretend you are no matter the consequences - because it makes you feel better)
On one hand i pity people like you, on the other hand i would wipe out all of you from the face of this planet if i could.
Because youre a malign cancer. A parasite.

Even though that's kind of true. And it applies to anyone.

No it doesnt. It only applies to those that claim stupid shit that you claim.
And you only claim this because it makes you feel better.

 

[Roguey]

I don't believe we could find anyone anywhere else who would argue that Windows Explorer is seriously a design paragon for video game inventories, fortunately...

Those people are awfully foolish. Being able to choose between icons or a list at will would be perfect. Those who would want RPG GUIs to have sub-Windows 3.1 functionality forever are living in the dark ages.

 

[Grunker]

I don't believe we could find anyone anywhere else who would argue that Windows Explorer is seriously a design paragon for video game inventories, fortunately...

Those people are awfully foolish. Being able to choose between icons or a list at will would be perfect. Those who would want RPG GUIs to have sub-Windows 3.1 functionality forever are living in the dark ages.

sub-windows 3.1 is a command line or a simple selection of menus, you dolt

the fact that we're even arguing this as though windows explorer and inventory screens are comparable shows the depths of autism this thread has sunk to

may god have mercy on souls

 

[Delterius]

may god have mercy on souls

Now that's a good motto for the website. Do it!

 

[Roguey]

But they are...? In an ideal RPG I could sort items by name, newest or oldest, type, how much they weigh, etc. And also choose between a list or icons.

 

[Grunker]

may god have mercy on souls

Now that's a good motto for the website. Do it!

:3

But they are...? In an ideal RPG I could sort items by name, newest or oldest, type, how much they weigh, etc. And also choose between a list or icons.

"The ideal RPG is one where the developer spends its resources on doing multiple versions of the inventory and generates icons, grids, lists, category icons and search functionality."

Gee wiz, you think the best option would be to just accomodate everyone's personal wishes and include multiple inventory types and create art and keywords for items that function in both?

I'd like five major cities and 180 different monster types before that. Ain't sure we're getting neither.

 

[Delterius]

may god have mercy on souls

Now that's a good motto for the website. Do it!

:3

Think about it! Its genius! You mentioned god but you didn't capitalize the word, so both atheists and the WCDS might be miffed about it. The shoutbox will never be the same.

 

[kazgar]

Fuck me, I'm going to have petition obsidian to go back to more regular updates, the codex can't handle the silence and is going troppo.

 

[Ninjerk]

may god have mercy on souls

Now that's a good motto for the website. Do it!

:3

But they are...? In an ideal RPG I could sort items by name, newest or oldest, type, how much they weigh, etc. And also choose between a list or icons.

"The ideal RPG is one where the developer spends its resources on doing multiple versions of the inventory and generates icons, grids, lists, category icons and search functionality."

Gee wiz, you think the best option would be to just accomodate everyone's personal wishes and include multiple inventory types and create art and keywords for items that function in both?

I'd like five major cities and 180 different monster types before that. Ain't sure we're getting neither.

Budget/workload issues aside, how is the comparison not relevant and why would it be bad to have a choice

Spoiler

and consequence

 

[DeepOcean]

Absolutely. By what standard do you measure the "success of a system" anyhow? I can't see how that's supposed to work. Personal preferences, man.

This is a logic falacy. If you claim that there is no such thing as universal standards to measure quality and everything is a question of preferences. You just made a self detonating argument because if there is no universal standard for measuring, you can't make any universal claim about quality in itself. Including that there are no universal standards for measuring quality as that is an universal statement about quality in itself. I could say to you: If everything is a question of preference, I just choose that there are universal standards for quality and you have to respect my position because it was my preference but that makes your position invalid. Relativism doesn't make any sense.

 

[Zed]

Fuck me, I'm going to have petition obsidian to go back to more regular updates, the codex can't handle the silence and is going troppo.

if there's no gameplay video next week, then there will be blood tears shed

 

[Onholyservicebound]

Fuck me, I'm going to have petition obsidian to go back to more regular updates, the codex can't handle the silence and is going troppo.

There are people who have referred to obsidian's update rate as an overload, don't remember the shit article that I read that on; they were likely working for Inxile and butthurt because PE has twice as many updates.

 

[uaciaut]

Surprised there can be this much complaining about inventory management, i mean i've never encountered a system that was so shitty that it stuck with me and came back to haunt. So, some systems were worse than other but if they game's above decent in other departments it takes me fucking 5 minutes to get used to it and then i just completely ignore it. Not codex, it seems. What's next on the schedule of complaints, are dropped items bio-degradable or should they stay on the ground you leave them on forever?

 

[Cyberarmy]

Fuck me, I'm going to have petition obsidian to go back to more regular updates, the codex can't handle the silence and is going troppo.

if there's no gameplay video next week, then there will be blood tears shed

They are not showing anything from vertical slice...

1. The Vertical Slice has been done for some time, and right now we are over two months into production. We aren't planning on releasing a playable demo of the Vertical Slice or releasing a video of the VS. I know you are dying to see the game in action. Hopefully soon

 

[Volrath]

You guys are talking to an utter imbecile. And youre trying to explain things to him through logic and common sense.
While all that fucking waste of organic matter is interested in is protecting his emotional engagement.

There is no talking to an idiot.
He simply disregards whatever he doesnt like, what he barely understands but doesnt like he simply converts to what fits his agenda the best.
And he simply repeats the same idiotic shit he splurged the first time indefinitely, thinking thats the way to win.

Also: reality is only a construct of language

correlate his nickname, his avatar and this sentence

I agree with hiver. The guy is a fucking idiot.

 

[SophosTheWise]

Absolutely. By what standard do you measure the "success of a system" anyhow? I can't see how that's supposed to work. Personal preferences, man.

This is a logic falacy. If you claim that there is no such thing as universal standards to measure quality and everything is a question of preferences. You just made a self detonating argument because if there is no universal standard for measuring, you can't make any universal claim about quality in itself. Including that there are no universal standards for measuring quality as that is an universal statement about quality in itself. I could say to you: If everything is a question of preference, I just choose that there are universal standards for quality and you have to respect my position because it was my preference but that makes your position invalid. Relativism doesn't make any sense.

I can see where you're coming from, but I think you're perfectly entitled to reject my "relativist" view (even though I wouldn't really call it relativism). Of course my statement is also only relatively true. But this is one of the oldest battles regarding relativism/absolutism, so, yeah. From the absolutist's viewpoint, it's a contradiction, but from my viewpoint it's not. Even if my idea may be self-detonating, the argument itself is still there and still evokes what is contained within it.

Even if universal truth exists, does it matter? Wittgenstein claims there is absolute truth (or, I think he said there is an objective view) but it's not possible to obtain that point of view (I may be wrong about the details, it's been a few years) If a universal truth exists out of everyone's reach, why does it matter?

You can also apply this to the theory of the death of the author. It doesn't matter what an author wants to imply because meaning in a text is generated by the reader, not the author.
Or more extreme: does it matter if God exists "materially"? Even the concept of an existing God (which will always remain, even when a scientist would claim to have absolute evidence that there is no God, since there are other epistemological models than empirism which claim to hold absolute truth) influences people.

But now I'm done, I wished we could've discussed that more civilized and without constant ad hominem insulting. Philosophy has different disciplines, even contradictory ones, and instead of claiming absolute truth for one discipline we could've just shared ideas. But of course, that's only relativist again