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The Witcher Officialsky Witcherovda 2 Impressiovna Threadskaia
- Thread starter 1eyedking
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Data4
Arcane
I've got a question about the Act 3 dragon fight.
I went to the tower and fought her, then rode her down to the forest where she was impaled on a tree. My options were to kill her then or walk away. I went ahead and killed her. I figured the choices given were kill her in mercy, or let her suffer until she succumbed to her injuries. Did anyone just walk away, and if so, was there any followup about her? When I killed her, it seemed that was pretty much that. This was having taken the Iorveth path, so Geralt knew who/what Saskia was. I didn't help Phillipa, so no dagger.
dragonfk
Erudite
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If you go with sparing her life before you walk away you see the dragon freeing itself from the tree. Then when you meet Triss in the Loc Muin you tell her that you couldn't kill the dragon, not when there is a chance to dispel Eilharts charm.
Data4 said:
She will survive and regen wounds, but she is still under Philipia spell. At least in Iorveth route you know that is the case. By going Roche you don't know anything about the dragon, except it is controled by Philipia.
Data4 said:
Not much happens, except Geralt says to iorweth and Triss that they have to find a cure for her somehow.
Hey VD, I got around to writing down the examples. Bear in mind this is by no means all the C&C, it's just the few examples I wrote down on my playthrough... I have tried keeping it as much to Chapter 1 and 2 as possible, but some Chapter 3 stuff slipped in as well. Sorry 
Here it is:
Now as for the endgame, it is short but riddled with choices. I was actually convinced a few of these choices were pretty poor in the consequence-department, but Storyfag pointed out what I'd missed, so I withdrew that statement. I'm not gonna spoil too many Chapter 3 things for you as you asked m not too... Suffice it to say, there are quite a number of choices; you immeaditely have two choose between two very different ways of approaching a quest, which will determined whether the next fights are armed or unarmed, as well as what info you gain from them. You will also choose the fate of several main characters, and more.
I belive I have given ample evidence that the C&C in The Witcher 2 not only beats the one in Dragon Age soundly. If you still think otherwise I emplore you to post the mass of C&C that makes DA surperior or equal to TW2 in this department... I've played DA twice, nearly three times (the combat is 1000 times better than TW2, even though it's not the best. Hell, even DA2 combat which was shit was better... As you pointed out, levels actually matter pretty damned much in DA2's shitfest. They don't that much in TW2.), and its C&C pales in comparison to TW2's. I'm not calling TW2's C&C best evar - I'm saying that compared to DA it's incredible. So naturally, praising DA's C&C very much and not TW2's is hypocritical from my perspective. If you would argue otherwise, please present concrete multiple examples from DA that beat the above.
Add to this that the context is usually much better in TW2 - you don't pick between right or wrong, and you often have to choose between two things that suck (i.e. the lesser evil). The writers do a great job of contextualising the choise and making the choices not feel forced (handing sword to Iorveth or not for example, and the time-pressure in the Stennis-choice), as they sometimes did in TW1 (AND NOW FOR EPIC CHOICE - DUN DUN DUN!).
Well, there it is.
Here it is:
Should you decide to spare Aryan, your way through the dungeon and outside the castle will be filled with more guards. If you kill him, you will meet both Silé and Shilard already in the prologue. Shilard will call off some guards for you, and you will get some info.
During the side-quest in Chapter 2 involving a hospital, rewards and story will play out very different determined by which of the choices you choose. You have the option of giving the ghost what it wants or tricking it. If you trick it, you have the option of handing over the two men to the commandant (which will net you some info about their target) or letting them go.
During the visit to the commandant, you can choose to barge in on him and Silé, which will yield you a confrontation with the two. Or, you can choose to go through a stealth mission that will yield some alternate info and some alternate rewards (one that will help you defeat the Krayan, for instance). You can also get caught during this stealth mission which will present you with a different confrontation with the commandant. Before making this choice you will be given the option of sabotaging the ballista, which will also yield a reward.
During the fist-fight quest in Chapter 2, the commandant will offer you some gold if you lose on purpose. The money value gained from the quest will be substantially larger if you do this, but you will gain an item you won't otherwise if you don't.
The choices involving Triss are obviously quite impacting. As in you get to bang her or not 
. In all seriousness though, uour involvement with Triss will decide quite a lot of things during the course of the game, depending on how you tackle it. Too many things to mention actually.
. In all seriousness though, uour involvement with Triss will decide quite a lot of things during the course of the game, depending on how you tackle it. Too many things to mention actually.Depending on the course of action you choose with the troll, the rewards and XP you gain will differ, as well as the gameplay of the quest. You can roll dice for his girlfriends head, fight him or root out the perpertrators. At the end of the quest a diplomacy or intimidate check can help you get the promised reward from the elder.
If you choose to save the dwarves during the slaughter in Chapter 2, one will find you later in Chapter 3 with quite the nice reward. But ONLY if you choose Iorveth, as the dwarf lives in Vergen.
When you go to Siles room and find blood and Triss gone, you can ask the whores what they saw. You are, however, limited to a few questions, and can only recieve limited info.
When confronting Letho with Iorveth bound"playing prisoner", Roche will come. Iorveth will shout for his sword, and you have a few seconds to decide whether to throw him the sword or not. The consequence to this particular choice is mostly flavour and information.
At a point you will have to choose between Roche and Iorveth. This choice have colossal repercussions for both gameplay and story. You will be fighting for two different aspiring kings, you will be doing two entirely different sets of quests in two different quest hubs. This choice is pretty much as big as they come. It actually reminds me about BG2's Vampires or Thieves in its design, but is obviously way bigger in the consequence-department.
The impressive thing is that there are major and minor choices within these two different quest hubs too. If you choose Iorveth, you can choose to let a mob lynch Prince Stennis or save him, which will completely change the story. During this choice there is a sub-choice. You can only hear three or four versions of the story (out of 8 or 9) before the mob forces your hand.
As said, there is also choices of minor variety. I mainly have Iorveth examples here, but for example, you can choose to spare the troll, which will yield an insane ally for a later battle. In this choice are several sub-choices. You can choose to spare the mercernaries harrassing the troll for extra support from them, or kill them for some phat lewt. You also have the choice of drinking with the dwarves or not when you first meet them in the bar, which will yield different outcomes. You will get the help of the dwarves in an upcoming quest if you drink with them, for example.
Now as for the endgame, it is short but riddled with choices. I was actually convinced a few of these choices were pretty poor in the consequence-department, but Storyfag pointed out what I'd missed, so I withdrew that statement. I'm not gonna spoil too many Chapter 3 things for you as you asked m not too... Suffice it to say, there are quite a number of choices; you immeaditely have two choose between two very different ways of approaching a quest, which will determined whether the next fights are armed or unarmed, as well as what info you gain from them. You will also choose the fate of several main characters, and more.
I belive I have given ample evidence that the C&C in The Witcher 2 not only beats the one in Dragon Age soundly. If you still think otherwise I emplore you to post the mass of C&C that makes DA surperior or equal to TW2 in this department... I've played DA twice, nearly three times (the combat is 1000 times better than TW2, even though it's not the best. Hell, even DA2 combat which was shit was better... As you pointed out, levels actually matter pretty damned much in DA2's shitfest. They don't that much in TW2.), and its C&C pales in comparison to TW2's. I'm not calling TW2's C&C best evar - I'm saying that compared to DA it's incredible. So naturally, praising DA's C&C very much and not TW2's is hypocritical from my perspective. If you would argue otherwise, please present concrete multiple examples from DA that beat the above.
Add to this that the context is usually much better in TW2 - you don't pick between right or wrong, and you often have to choose between two things that suck (i.e. the lesser evil). The writers do a great job of contextualising the choise and making the choices not feel forced (handing sword to Iorveth or not for example, and the time-pressure in the Stennis-choice), as they sometimes did in TW1 (AND NOW FOR EPIC CHOICE - DUN DUN DUN!).
Well, there it is.
Oh, and VD, fuck the haters. I wouldn't spend my time arguing at length with you in this manner if I didn't consider your opinion well-voiced. I may not agree with you, but you mostly present your opinion without too much bullshit. I think the only time I've ever really considered your style illegitimate was when you refused to believe my lack of english-skills were the reason for my stumbling in our discussion about your style of argumentation. I still laugh at your presumption as to my skills in that thread
As others have said, you write some very good reviews (your review for Dragon Age and Fallout 3 were pretty accurate in spite of not sucking up to Kritikal Kodex Konsensus).
So if you want to write a review, I see no reason not too... It's not like this site is heavy with content these days.
As others have said, you write some very good reviews (your review for Dragon Age and Fallout 3 were pretty accurate in spite of not sucking up to Kritikal Kodex Konsensus).
So if you want to write a review, I see no reason not too... It's not like this site is heavy with content these days.
Did not know that. I stand corrected.
Havoc said:
Also,
the sequence when looking for Triss plays out differently depending on this.
If you give Iorveth the sword, Margot lives, the other whore is killed and you get to witness Triss´ dialogue with Philippa.
If you don´t give him the sword, Margot commits suicide, the other whore is alive and you get to witness Triss´ dialogue with Dethmold.
Though maybe that´s what Grunker had in mind with the flavour + information bit.
Obviously, if you opt to go Iorveth route and didn´t give Iorveth the sword, you don´t have the option to "play prisoner" with him since he´s already arrested.
If you give Iorveth the sword, Margot lives, the other whore is killed and you get to witness Triss´ dialogue with Philippa.
If you don´t give him the sword, Margot commits suicide, the other whore is alive and you get to witness Triss´ dialogue with Dethmold.
Though maybe that´s what Grunker had in mind with the flavour + information bit.
Obviously, if you opt to go Iorveth route and didn´t give Iorveth the sword, you don´t have the option to "play prisoner" with him since he´s already arrested.
pocahaunted
Arcane
Roguey said:
Nah, it's actually unworthy of a dignifying response as he's being way too bullheaded about the issue.
Assuming a relativistic compromise there's no way his logic makes any sense - DA2's C&C isn't even in the same league as TW2's despite both games being very much railroaded. He bashes TW2's quest design for not being open ended, while praising DA2's C&C? How come both games aren't being scrutinized equally? No, neither game is the pinnacle of C&C due to the story-driven nature of both games, except TW2's various binary choices do lead to different amalgamations of outcomes, with quests actually being altered depending on previous choices, whilst DA2's choices result in nothing but fluff and model swapping.
You can't seriously expect your opinion to be taken as gospel when your logic is so flawed, I reckon that stating his thoughts once would suffice - if he actually believes what he's saying, instead of being biased for whatever reason - but continuously repeating the same unfounded argument, trying to prove a point against rabid fanboys gets tiring pretty damn fast.
Data4
Arcane
Re: Act 3 dragon fight-- Thanks!
I honestly wasn't expecting her to recover from that impalement. It looked pretty damned fatal to me, which is why I thought the choices were "Mercy kill" or "Fuck that bitch!"
Data4
Arcane
pocahaunted said:
I may have missed something, but I think VD was comparing TW2's C&C with DA:O. If you read his DA2 review, he pretty much tore it a new one.
VentilatorOfDoom said:
I like that sort of stuff, but does it significantly change the flow of your return to town? Or maybe even stuff later in the game? I don't know myself because I only saw one side yet. A good exemple of C&C I got from the top of my head is to spare or devour Okku in MotB. Sparing him lets you recruit him as a companion and devouring him will give you an essence and the possibility to get One-of-Many a bit later, but these are the immediate consequences. Later you are invited by the tribe of monsters and they will attack you if you spared Okku, but praise you and teach you new spirit eater skills if you devoured him. That choice here doesn't only change the story but also your party composition and your potential character abilities.
pocahaunted
Arcane
Then maybe I fail at reading comprehension. Stil,l DAO's C&C isn't very different from purely fluff, even if the game was bigger in scope and for a story-driven game, the plot was pretty weak anyway.
Total amount of content items:Grunker said:
ye good ol' times
2004: 20
2005 : 6
nextgen popamole Codex
2010: 22
2011 : 8 (as of June 4th with several content items already finished but not yet published and several more in the works)
to all bros (and sis) doing the dirty work 
Vault Dweller
Commissar, Red Star Studio
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Note to idiots:
- I'm not comparing the Witcher 2 to anything yet. I mentioned that I haven't finished the game yet several times. I did say that so far the game appears to be very linear (except for the fork) and that so far the choices & consequences were weak and explained why.
- On the subject of C&C. Yes, I did praise the DA design and I criticized DA2. Yet, DA2 has a lot more choices and consequences than DA. DA2 is littered with choices. The problem is that these choices and their consequences (like leave your sister at home, take her with you, have the templar in your party to save her) aren't worth shit. Conclusion: quality > quantity.
On the subject of quest design in the Witcher 2: it's very weak (so far). It's not just the armor of courage quest. I've already mentioned quests like find Margo or bring the drunk to his 3 friends. Here is another one:
go to the barge, talk to the guards, they let you in, the prisoner is almost dead, Triss needs to heal him, you have to tap LMB really quick to do your part in the healing process, talk to the prisoner, you have several options including persuasion and intimidate. My persuasion was low so I failed the check, I played the quest through than reloaded. My intimidate was high and I succeeded. You learn a bit more, but it has no effect or consequences. The rose of remembrance quest is unlocked! CHOICE: go with Triss (reward: sex with Triss) or go on your own. Unless I'm mistaken, even though you're free to run around the woods, you can't get the rose until the quest says that you can. Some looters show up, you don't have an option to intimidate them or use the mental sign. You fight and kill them. You talk to Triss, who invites you to throw everything away. CHOICE: agree and you'll have to talk to Roche; disagree (i.e. no, must clear the name no matter what) and we move straight to the dwarf buddy phase. Go to your dwarf buddy and tell him to hook you up with Iorweth. You couldn't do that before, but now it's time. The game says you can, so go for it. Etc.
Um, do I really have to explain that it's linear asfuck Final Fantasy?
- I'm not comparing the Witcher 2 to anything yet. I mentioned that I haven't finished the game yet several times. I did say that so far the game appears to be very linear (except for the fork) and that so far the choices & consequences were weak and explained why.
- On the subject of C&C. Yes, I did praise the DA design and I criticized DA2. Yet, DA2 has a lot more choices and consequences than DA. DA2 is littered with choices. The problem is that these choices and their consequences (like leave your sister at home, take her with you, have the templar in your party to save her) aren't worth shit. Conclusion: quality > quantity.
On the subject of quest design in the Witcher 2: it's very weak (so far). It's not just the armor of courage quest. I've already mentioned quests like find Margo or bring the drunk to his 3 friends. Here is another one:
go to the barge, talk to the guards, they let you in, the prisoner is almost dead, Triss needs to heal him, you have to tap LMB really quick to do your part in the healing process, talk to the prisoner, you have several options including persuasion and intimidate. My persuasion was low so I failed the check, I played the quest through than reloaded. My intimidate was high and I succeeded. You learn a bit more, but it has no effect or consequences. The rose of remembrance quest is unlocked! CHOICE: go with Triss (reward: sex with Triss) or go on your own. Unless I'm mistaken, even though you're free to run around the woods, you can't get the rose until the quest says that you can. Some looters show up, you don't have an option to intimidate them or use the mental sign. You fight and kill them. You talk to Triss, who invites you to throw everything away. CHOICE: agree and you'll have to talk to Roche; disagree (i.e. no, must clear the name no matter what) and we move straight to the dwarf buddy phase. Go to your dwarf buddy and tell him to hook you up with Iorweth. You couldn't do that before, but now it's time. The game says you can, so go for it. Etc.
Um, do I really have to explain that it's linear as
Vault Dweller
Commissar, Red Star Studio
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My sentiments exactly.Gragt said:
Vault Dweller
Commissar, Red Star Studio
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Many thanks.Grunker said:Hey VD, I got around to writing down the examples. Bear in mind this is by no means all the C&C, it's just the few examples I wrote down on my playthrough... I have tried keeping it as much to Chapter 1 and 2 as possible, but some Chapter 3 stuff slipped in as well. Sorry
* * * SPOILERS BELOW * * *
Like what? How does this choice affect the game? How does the info change your understanding of the events or unlock something in the future. Basically, if you're saying that this choice affects more than the color of the shirt, will you kindly elaborate?
More specifically? How do different choices affect the gameplay? I agree that unlike most quests, it's a quest with decent multiple solutions (praise the lord), but does it go beyond that?
How do these choices affect the gameplay? What do they change?
Hardly different from "decline the reward, accept the reward, ask for better reward" options.
Haven't seen it yet but will take your word for it.The choices involving Triss are obviously quite impacting. As in you get to bang her or not
Which troll? The DLC?
It's the same shit as saving some people in prologue and getting a reward from them in chapter 1. It's a delayed reward, not a consequence.
*sigh* And how do these amazing options affect the gameplay?
As been mentioned, you either get the riot or the celebration, plus Margo/the other whore variation, but it's still flavor only.
Is there any real difference which whore is killed? No. Not because you don't care which character dies, but because your gameplay remains absolutely the same.
Agree. I said the same thing. It's worth noting that this fork (and other occasional choices) in BG2 hasn't made the game stand out when it comes to C&C, mostly due to the linearity of anything else.
Black_Willow
Arcane
Sadly, none of the choices in TW2 can turn it into racing game or arcanoid clone, so the choices don't affect the gameplay.
kanenas
Educated
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VentilatorOfDoom said:Vault Dweller said:Flying Spaghetti Monster said:
I simply posted my impressions without making any fuss about it. Is that too much for you to handle?
Btw, bros, I was asked to review this everyone's favourite RPG for the Codex. I'll gladly pass on the honor to someone more worthy and keep my ill-informed opinion to myself. Any volunteers?
As unworthy and ill-informed as your opinion might be, you can't weasel out now.
So a few wankers prefer to attack the person instead of exchanging opinions, entering debate etc? On the Codex? Who would have thought.
Here's an example:
If you choose to not give Iorweth his sword he gets captured and hauled away to the prisoners barge. Loredo is appeased. If you give him his sword instead, he starts to kick ass and since Loredo doesn't get his most valuable prisoner he starts a progrom. The city burns and dwarves and elves are killed by the lynch mob. (you can save a few though)
So did you make the choice to use that next-gen gaming mouse you linked in that newspost?
Did it have a consequence in the gameplay?
Vault Dweller
Commissar, Red Star Studio
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Black_Willow said:
It also affects quite a few other encounters.Gragt said:
Black_Willow
Arcane
So what does it have to do with my post?Vault Dweller said:
EDIT
And how on earth do those "C&C" affect gameplay?
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