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4X Old World - historical 4X strategy by Civ 4 designer (formerly 10 Crowns)

mediocrepoet

Philosoraptor in Residence
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Codex 2012 Codex+ Now Streaming! Enjoy the Revolution! Another revolution around the sun that is. MCA Project: Eternity Divinity: Original Sin 2
You can have a unit take a 25% penalty off the top just because their family's pissed at you
finally something i didn't know. and quite interesting too. but also rather silly, considering those dynamics, as a general i'd be motivated to show off on the field, gather fame and power, and topple the asshole ruler i hate, not just the emo way of giving up and die.

You don't think the Roman senators conspired and sometimes sent leaders out to die and otherwise turned on eachother for personal benefit?

I think that mixing the two sides of the game was done quite well and it's cool that you really need to try and keep your people on your side while dealing with foreign powers. It also actually gives you a reason to use powers like having rivals jailed or murdered, or trying to take control of the church(es), etc. Or trying to decide if someone's weak and griping or if they're actually getting ready to shove a knife in your guts.
 
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of course, i was just nitpicking. the game is clearly the new standard for 4x: mixed with crusader kings. and i demand a whole civ made like this, but i guess it'd also need a thousand more events and "surfacing and sunsetting" families system, not really easy and immediate to implement. i just can't see the world to be dominated throughout history just by rockefellers and rothschild. oh wait...
 

mediocrepoet

Philosoraptor in Residence
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Codex 2012 Codex+ Now Streaming! Enjoy the Revolution! Another revolution around the sun that is. MCA Project: Eternity Divinity: Original Sin 2
of course, i was just nitpicking. the game is clearly the new standard for 4x: mixed with crusader kings. and i demand a whole civ made like this, but i guess it'd also need a thousand more events and "surfacing and sunsetting" families system, not really easy and immediate to implement. i just can't see the world to be dominated throughout history just by rockefellers and rothschild. oh wait...

Yeah that'd be pretty cool. I think this only works because of the smaller focus though. Maybe if they kept iterating on it and then had a back catalog of content to mash together or something, sort of like Total Warhammer did.
 
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no one is going to try since all the recent civlikes have been the most horrible trainwrecks ever, civ itself included and spearheading the decline. it's an aaa budget project without the aaa appeal. either that or lent it to some turboautist like the "caveman 2 cosmos" guys.
 

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Augur
Joined
Aug 11, 2015
Messages
273
Old World is quite moddable but unfortunately it looks like it never got the critical mass of autists interested in the game to produce any sweet large-scale mods. I'd love to see a fan scenario set in Three Kingdoms -era China or a Dune total conversion mod, which seems like a good fit for the game's mechanics.
 

Hydro

Educated
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Mar 30, 2024
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I have a weird feeling I had been following this game but it had sort of a 2D visuals and had ended up being a disappointment. What is it I am confusing it with?
 

Lacrymas

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Pathfinder: Wrath
I have a weird feeling I had been following this game but it had sort of a 2D visuals and had ended up being a disappointment. What is it I am confusing it with?
One of the Heroes 3 clones or maybe Millennia.
 

Hydro

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K thanks bros. I’m confusing things probably.

The game looks good enough, I like its focus on a narrower historic period. What do you think holds it from being a superb game?
 

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Augur
Joined
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K thanks bros. I’m confusing things probably.

The game looks good enough, I like its focus on a narrower historic period. What do you think holds it from being a superb game?
Inexplicably lousy graphical performance and ahistorically feminist genderbending characters, most egregiously reflected in half your generals being women.
 

Beowulf

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I have a weird feeling I had been following this game but it had sort of a 2D visuals and had ended up being a disappointment. What is it I am confusing it with?
Not this by any chance?

2D and extremely disappointing fits the bill. It also can be put into the same historical era.
 

Hydro

Educated
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I have a weird feeling I had been following this game but it had sort of a 2D visuals and had ended up being a disappointment. What is it I am confusing it with?
Not this by any chance?

2D and extremely disappointing fits the bill. It also can be put into the same historical era.

Yes, thanks. Somehow these two mixed inside my head. They even have a similar description on Steam with the difference being their creators responsible for Civ 4 and Civ 5 respectively. 2d looks awesome though.
 

Tigranes

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Jan 8, 2009
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K thanks bros. I’m confusing things probably.

The game looks good enough, I like its focus on a narrower historic period. What do you think holds it from being a superb game?

It is a superb game and I highly recommend it. Much prefer to Civ and wish it would become the new standard, but we won't even get a sequel, I think?

It can be a bit more limited without the scope of Civ, but that's a necessary price to pay. I also appreciate how you can play multiple victory conditions with a single settlement, though often that's due to abuse of tile purchasing.
 
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i didn't manage to understand why sometimes i could absorb on founding/buy out later entire settlements (capua, south of rome, and the city to its east) and sometimes not (capua, south of rome, and the city to its south). worst is that when it lets you buy all the tiles except the main one, forcing you to waste an ungodly amount of resources in order to revert ownership. it's probably only a matter of distance, but then explicitly state so and show me the limits.
 

Lacrymas

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Pathfinder: Wrath
It can be a bit more limited without the scope of Civ, but that's a necessary price to pay. I also appreciate how you can play multiple victory conditions with a single settlement, though often that's due to abuse of tile purchasing.
The abuse people used to do was building villages or shrines to get the border extension, then demolish them and build them on the newly gained tiles to extend the borders yet again. This has been removed by you not being able to demolish tile improvements which extend your borders anymore.
 

mediocrepoet

Philosoraptor in Residence
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Codex 2012 Codex+ Now Streaming! Enjoy the Revolution! Another revolution around the sun that is. MCA Project: Eternity Divinity: Original Sin 2
It can be a bit more limited without the scope of Civ, but that's a necessary price to pay. I also appreciate how you can play multiple victory conditions with a single settlement, though often that's due to abuse of tile purchasing.
The abuse people used to do was building villages or shrines to get the border extension, then demolish them and build them on the newly gained tiles to extend the borders yet again. This has been removed by you not being able to demolish tile improvements which extend your borders anymore.
It's probably telling that that sort of cheese abuse never even occurs to me, much less be something I do. I approach most games in more of an "RP" mindset and stuff like that is purely gamey.
 

Desman

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Jan 12, 2023
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Only played a couple of hours so far and i have no idea what i'm doing but i like it (still reading guides/wikis).

It's a bit "gamey" like all 4x but in a good way (reasonable abstraction) unlike new CIV6 where nothing make sense and you feel like playing a really dumbed down boardgame.
Presentation is great (music, portraits, map etc...) and unlike CIV6 it doesn't look a shitty mobile game (uninstalled CIV6 after like 30 minutes). This game is clearly a labour of love.

Characters events are kinda funny... my favourite heir is now gay and he has a dog :shittydog:
 

Humanophage

Arcane
Joined
Dec 20, 2005
Messages
5,515
I have been playing it for about a week, and I am liking it. Had my first victory on The Great (highest level) with Hittites on the Seaside map (basically pangaea, which is usually better for AIs). The main downside is the obscene micro with workers. You end up having to control like 25 workers for mundane things like tile improvements.

Overall impressions
Strong points:
- The AI is not bad on Divine. OK with tactics, backstabs you when you're at your weakest.
- Exploring is pretty fun. It is important to understand the geography, both for the resources, the potential diplomacy, and of course for the mountain choke points.
- The war is time-consuming but dramatic. Sometimes every next turn seems like a massive shift in fortunes. It also rewards resilience. I lost a couple of fairly serious cities, but kept fighting and managed to retake them with the help of allies.
- The unit system is solid and enables some degree of tactics like formations with zone of control, knocking units about with elephants, AoE strikes, etc. I want to try building up a good defence formation.
- I enjoyed the economic system. It offers a fair challenge on the highest level because you get real resource scarcity, and you need to pick between a small number of impactful but mutually exclusive options (e.g. which families to choose for first cities).
- I appreciate how the economy is a major component of the game and not just a footnote to war. It seems viable to only wage defensive wars and to concentrate on the economy.
- The starting characters offer significant diversity for early game, which is usually the most fun part in 4X.
- The pace of the game is pretty solid in terms of turns. The endgame is relatively short if you know you're victorious.
- The character interaction and events can be amusing. They also shake up the gameplay, like for example you can get a self-governing city.
- I really liked the portraits, great style. Apart from the aging, they also have charming Might and Magic 6 expressions sometimes. It's so much better than the tedious 3D portraits.
ihXYDMn.png
fwzQoSQ.png

regular/in love

Weak points:
- The micro is insane. The limit on the number of cities reduces the micro a bit, but the workers drive it up beyond any reason.
- The interface for building improvements is subpar for that level of micro despite some inventive approaches (like sticky windows).
- The AI is a little too easy to manipulate via diplomacy and generally too generous. My very friendly ally literally gifted me a city. Come on man, it's the last difficulty level. But then it's consistent with the description of their attitude.
- The improvement map is very hard to read. Why couldn't they just add little icons instead of words.
- No way to fully zoom out.

Mini-AAR
I did try several games before but kept restarting because it's fun to try new positions and I was learning. I decided to stick with Hittites because they were the first faction I tried. Hittites seem a bit less mainstream than the others except maybe Kush. One of the big considerations was that one of their leaders (Suppiluliuma) is a tactician, which seems like an amazing profession because it freezes the enemy (super valuable whilst the barbarians only have 1-2 units). He also looks like a mixture of that famous wog muscular chad and Nikolai Tsiskaridze.
Evh7uyW.png


I went with traders as my first family as it gives a huge monetary boost early on while the resources are cheap. The families for Hittites synergise really well: you get these traders, artisans who create literature that gets a bonus from traders, and landowers for early expansion since they can buy tiles. I had a fair start with pastures. Pastures are solid because they're required for Judaism, which is the easiest religion to found. Rushing for Zoroastrianism is unreliable (maybe it's different for other civs). Here's the starting location (Hattusa). Having a good amount of food also means that you can create caravans fast as a trading family. They both bring a ton of money and give a solid diplomacy boost. I like it how the cities are quite full of character based on their geography. Like you can see a desert city in a mountain overpass, a mountainous city in a lush river valley, and a steppe city with pastures.
bJVIcjE.png


On this type of map, you always start in the middle. It's supposed to simulate the idea that all real historical civilizations in the area are surrounded on all sides except for a coast or two. The other civs were Assyrians, Egyptians, Babylonians, and the Greeks whom I discovered much later. The terrain is mountainous and has some tracts of land where you can't really found any cities. This makes it more defensible. There is an intense rush for city sites early on, so when I saw a half-dead Babylonian unit stealing a site from me, I just declared war and took the site. The rest of the game, I was dealing with the Babylonians as my main enemy. I like it how an event like that sets in motion the whole narrative.

Another weird and important event was establishing a national alliance with Egypt. Egypt had been extremely nice to me. At one point they just flat out gifted a city for no reason, which was bizarre. Then they also returned an old city that Babylon conquered from me. On the other hand, I saved them from Greece. Greece was beating them at one point, but I made the Greeks declare war on Assyrians, distracting them from the annihilation of Egyptians. This really saved Egypt from conquest. Anyway, here is a GIF with expansion. Blue = Greece, red = Egypt, brown = Babylon, yellow = Assyria, teal = Hittites. Overall, I mainly achieved victory via diplomatic manipulation as the Babylonians would have been too tough to beat alone without Egypt.
ACiqJGB.gif


Here are some economic dynamics. Since it was my first full game, I wasn't sure how resources play out in the long run. Interestingly, the AI wasn't really outproducing me by much, which is always the case in Civ on Immortal/Deity. The one big exception was science. It's also nice how reactive the prices are. You can see how iron reflects the period of intense warfare, and then it goes down in price.
KcCoRGK.png
rZqMzsP.png


f4k4JGT.png
3qAcKjZ.png


A table with my cities at turn 50 and at the end. Some of these are Babylon's key cities but Hattusa is my native metropolis.
QcRxkxO.png

gpvUar1.png


For some additional immersion, I listened to a few lectures on Hittites, like these on their religious practices (in Russian).

Not sure which civ I will try next. Probably Greece or Kush.
 
Last edited:

Lacrymas

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2015
Messages
18,831
Pathfinder: Wrath
RE: micro with workers - you can automate those once you have a specific tech. They'll create improvements at the end of the turn if you have enough orders left over.
 

3 others

Augur
Joined
Aug 11, 2015
Messages
273
- The character interaction and events can be amusing. They also shake up the gameplay, like for example you can get a self-governing city. I really liked the portraits, great style. Apart from the aging, they also have charming Might and Magic 6 expressions sometimes. It's so much better than the tedious 3D portraits.
ihXYDMn.png
fwzQoSQ.png

regular/in love
Dynamic portraits is one of those little pieces of flair that I haven't seen mentioned anywhere, but it is a subtly wonderful addition to the game. The characters age gradually (apart from a few discrete age thresholds) and their expression changes depending on their disposition towards you. And they do a really good job with it, too. Seeing your brother's frownful face in a pop-up event you just feel he's a resentful, envious prick, probably up to no good no matter what he's proposing at this moment.

There's a built-in portrait editor in the game if you're interested in how it works under the hood.
 

Hydro

Educated
Joined
Mar 30, 2024
Messages
582
Played it a bit, didn’t really click with me. I had an impression that despite there’s seemingly an abundance of events each turn few of them really matter.

Which map and difficulty settings would you recommend to give it another try? I played the default difficulty and the middle east map.

Honestly I’d rather this game was in spehs. None of these nations makes sense history wise, so why even bother.
 

Lacrymas

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2015
Messages
18,831
Pathfinder: Wrath
Most events are actually quite impactful, depending on difficulty settings. The lower the difficulty, the less valuable some events become, especially those giving you resources. As for map settings, it's really up to the individual. I like a 3 player FFA if I'm just starting out because I find only 1 opponent uneventful and with not much recourse if the AI decides to attack you before you are ready. You can try games of the week to see different scenarios and feel out what appeals to you.
 

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