4X Old World - historical 4X strategy by Civ 4 designer (formerly 10 Crowns)

[Lacrymas]

The choice between a Pagan and world religion comes down to whether you can make good use of the shrines. Technically, world religions are better because they come with a bunch of buildings and a wonder, but in some cases paganism is worth it too if you can keep dissidence low. You can get the law that enables shrines in every city, build the shrines and then change the law, but it requires quite a lot of preplanning.

 

[Desiderius]

That's a lot of Orders and Stone (and less kids due to dissent along the way), that may simply not be worth it.

 

[Desiderius]

So, uh, how exactly does one activate the Grand Vizier?

 

[Lacrymas]

So, uh, how exactly does one activate the Grand Vizier?

Only through events.

 

[Malakal]

So, uh, how exactly does one activate the Grand Vizier?

If you have a rising star character jobless it should trigger an event to give him a job and grand vizier is an option.

Its not bad honestly assuming you have governors to manage production anyway. Otherwise he will spam slingers and woodmen.

 

[Lacrymas]

GVs produce what the AI thinks is valuable and plays like any other AI nation. If you've noticed they produce a lot of woodsmen, that's probably because wood is usually a problematic resource in quite a lot of games. It really depends on how early you get forestry. Sometimes, neither the AI nor you have it for quite a while and the wood prices skyrocket. They produce slingmen a lot as well because you usually have enough stone for it, the more specialized/higher tier units require quite a lot of resources you might not have available (like the aforementioned wood) and the GV won't use your gold to buy resources to make units with for obvious reasons. Or they might not have the necessary building in the city in the case of UUs.

 

[Desiderius]

Woodsmen maybe a little underrated all told. Valuable resource + some science. Get borders popping and units set up for future upgrades and maintenance that doesn’t require stone or iron. Can control where they go by where lumbermills are placed since worker is still player controlled.

 

[Desiderius]

Saw some interesting AI behavior:

Playing Assyria buddied up to unit carpet Rome early and Persia (between us) made a demand that I *mostly* wasn’t ready for (units off fighting tribes other way) but I took the 6 legitimacy and told him to bring it to my Hunters (free Sentinel promotion) capital. Surprisingly light attack gets fended off then Rome declares on Persia.

Rome sends decent number of invaders but Persia still puts up surprising resistance to my boys back from the Tribal front. Carthage piles too and at that point do manage to grab 4 cities while leaving the capital to Rome to give them a Carthaginian front. Pillaging disappointingly light.

Pop a Diplo leader and Cunning Governor to land Alliance with Rome and find Babs on other front of (game leader but backward tech) Carthage so set up a pile on the leader to help him lower his upkeep costs.

Here’s where it’s interesting: Rome declares on Carthage, and I can see eight units around every Roman city, with archers vs Carthaginian Slingers, but it’s a phony war like they’re expecting a backstab. They don’t build roads to the front so burning zillions of Orders marching through the forest.

Anyway I make a demand on Carthage and they choose war and proceed to hold us both off. Meanwhile my growth spam bites my ass as I run out of resources to build units so no military victory as I’d hoped.

Would have thought Rome would roll underteched Carthage but they must have been prepping a backstab? Afraid of blowing too many Orders on the march?

 

[Desiderius]

(yield per citizen specialists are a trap)

 

[Desiderius]

My kid wanted to play Assyria and I like to play the default leader before trying the alternatives so got my first Zealot Leader.

First of all Zealot leader turns you into Rome (+1 fatigue for all units), you get the weird Enlist Next Kill ability that seems too expensive to be practical?,+ 60 Opinion w/state religion (which is so good with convert etc), and of course the usual anti-oneshot protection which is nice on a leader.

There are two other massive things that you don’t anticipate until you try it:

Rushing in State religion cities with Training (only way to get this) is so, so good. Ashurbanipal starts 4 Courage so you’re swimming in Shields from the beginning and the usual fat diamond in each city events cranks them out.

The other thing though is the events it triggers a couple turns after establishing the state religion with a Zealot leader

One of them gave three choices. I *didn’t* choose the one that gives +10 Legitimacy and a *cultural level* in the capital, which is insane. All three were nuts.

I restarted that game and this time got Monetary Reform as a free Law (no unhappiness from rushing and +2 happy in each city). The Civics upkeep is substantial, but still.

 

[Desiderius]

The other cool thing is Assyria starts out with Military Drill so you can just throw down Barracks from the get go if you want.

I think it depends if you’ve got a better Hunters or Champ start. You also start with Trapping so Hunters can afford to research Stoneworking first while Champs can go Ironworking into Husbandry if needed since they can make units fine without Barracks.

Current game terrain Dictated Champ into Patrons into Clerics but you don’t know until you see the map.

 

[Malakal]

I find nations starting without both ironworking and stoneworking the hardest in the game, at least on intended settings. I had games where the other tech just didnt come up as a choice for 40+ turns.

Not to mention fighting barbarians in heavily forested maps with slingers is hell, especially when you have no horses and cant even make quarries to build them.

Honestly random research lost me more games than anything. Either spend 20+ turns getting steel or not see it forever...

 

[Desiderius]

I find nations starting without both ironworking and stoneworking the hardest in the game, at least on intended settings. I had games where the other tech just didnt come up as a choice for 40+ turns.

Not to mention fighting barbarians in heavily forested maps with slingers is hell, especially when you have no horses and cant even make quarries to build them.

Honestly random research lost me more games than anything. Either spend 20+ turns getting steel or not see it forever...

If you can’t build Quarries that means you’re spamming Steadfast Warriors who cut through them like butter.

If you start with Stoneworking that’s Hunters who get Sentinel on the Slingers and Barracks to help build them.

Basically if you need Pastures go Ironworking into Husbandry and build some mines. Consider investing in Stone before it gets expensive. Basically you need money to get your wife happy (more babies) and tutor you kids but other expenses can wait. The Orders are more valuable anyway.

If you've got Camps they double with Hunters even without a specialist. Depending on terrain can go with Champs family in addition for Steadfast Slingers before Ironworking shows up. Stonecutter specialists are relatively cheap and give Civics + Science too. Worth it on mountain quarries or popping borders.

 

[Desiderius]

Use free cards for effective redraw.

 

[Desiderius]

Slums are such a great mechanic.

Their purpose is to (a) bailout a low growth city usually while (b) making sure the city is adequately defended.

(a) they come with a Worker/Citizen which low growth cities struggle with, then also make workers/militia cheaper to produce (same)

(b) keep a Militia on the slum to make sure rebels don’t spawn on it (they’ll pillage it resetting the Hamlet timer) and have a unit nearby to kill the spawn. Militia still counts toward guarding the city happiness as long as it’s in the borders.

It’s a good idea to have a unit ready in each city in any event so Slums also function as training tool. Obv sit it in Barracks (the military Shrine trains ranged BTW) and give it a General if you have one free for target practice.

Making (say an Oligarch) a General gives it +20 relations and if it has Discipline EXP/turn.

Slums don’t count toward the one Hamlet/culture level limit until they mature so make sure to max Hamlets before they do.

 

[Beowulf]

I gave this one a try recently and honestly I'm disappointed, especially after reading such a high praise here.


I have not played any of the new CiVs, so can't really imagine how poor they have to be if the Old World is lauded as their superior.
The addition of characters and their traits being a big driving force of your empire, or at least a non negligible part of the equation is a nice mechanic to have, and I enjoyed that, even if this is very rng heavy.
The soundtrack is also great, but that's where the praise ends.
The rest of the game is just bland and lacking. It has this charming "one more turn" quality, at least at the beginning, I'll give them that, but nothing really stands out and make playing it interesting.

I think I'd like it more if it had a different, fantastical setting. As it is, the thin veneer of "historicity" is quickly cast aside and reveals what lies beneath as another generic game. The art also works to it's detriment, as you are always treated to some generic illustration regardless of your current situation and the gender of your character. I couldn't get immersed in the setting like I could e.g. in Alpha Centauri, which is still unbeatable when it comes to the genre.
And the 1UPT adds significantly to the late game tedium, as you're hardly limited by the orders anyway.

 

[Malakal]

The game does lose a lot in late game, that is true. There are some mechanics that make that part bad.

Like siege/archers with their sniping range. A wall of siege engines firing from what should realistically be dozens of kilometres away is super annoying. Same for movement for armies, with enough orders one unit can zig zag around your ZOCs and hit backline from fog of war.

Also game lags a lot for me in the late game, turn processing is long and stutters.

 

[Desiderius]

The game does lose a lot in late game, that is true. There are some mechanics that make that part bad.

Like siege/archers with their sniping range. A wall of siege engines firing from what should realistically be dozens of kilometres away is super annoying. Same for movement for armies, with enough orders one unit can zig zag around your ZOCs and hit backline from fog of war.

Also game lags a lot for me in the late game, turn processing is long and stutters.

Spear/Pike units have ZOC on mounted. If you want tight formations, get Engineer promotion, or learn tge ZOC rules not to need them.

Git gud

 

[Desiderius]

very rng heavy

Filtered

Play the tutorials. Both of them, all the way through. Lot to learn but once you do its worth it.

Also recommend strong tribes so they put up more of a fight and force you to get military up.

 

[Lacrymas]

Same for movement for armies, with enough orders one unit can zig zag around your ZOCs and hit backline from fog of war.

Disable Force March in the pre-game settings if you don't like this. But it's very rare that a unit can run around the enemy to get to them from the backside. Even when it is possible, the unit will die the next turn, so you better make it count.

 

[Desiderius]

Does Enlist Next Kill get the General too? 400 Civics is a lot. I guess if you Zerg around plus Enlist it could be worth it.

 

[Desiderius]

Man, play the Game of the Week currently up. Hanno the Explorer on a water map in a build/tech-off.

Restartitis is a really good way to learn. Welp, screwed that up let me try *this* until I get a good feel for the game.

Main challenge/strength for Hanno is (a) his age at start, (b) his inheritance law, and (c) what happens when a Diplomat dies without a Diplomat heir.

(a) 38 isn’t all that old compared to other leaders, but he also starts out with an empty succession and its’s old enough that the juices start to run dry.

The temptation is to marry into a Tribal line to get generals for mercs but the more pressing issue is a compatible wife for Pleased/Friendly birth modifiers.

That means Traders capital since they produce the most Diplomats (+60 opinion). Carthage also starts with Aristocracy so the Ambassador slot is unlocked just waiting to get your wife and her family another +40 relations and she’s ready to pop out heirs before you even influence her.

(b) The inheritance law makes youngest child the heir which is really good for long-lived kings and even better it frees up older siblings to go Exploring. Exploring costs no Orders or money and with Exploration law up there’s always good options.

Once the wife ages out you can tutor up the heir and with Traders family hopefully the Regent is a Diplomat. Either way the short reign of the Regent can be used to saddle him with maluses if necessary since he’s not on the throne for long.

(c) as long as you can keep a Diplomat on the throne all the Peace and Alliances Hanno manages to secure will be easy to maintain.

Hanno gets a free Tribal Alliance that doesn’t require Pleased and Peaceful Tribes send good events instead of Raiders. Friendly Nations offer good trades and your Trader capital can spam Caravans to get them there.

Statesman and Artisans families also work well on this map.