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On the Codex, Fallout 3 is underrated and Skyrim is overrated

Kainan

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Jul 24, 2020
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Recently i played some Bethesda games (decline!) and that's my impression.
FO3 is good and even great! Exploration is better than NV, but not writing(it's ok though) Quests are not bad. Skyrim on the other hand sucks very much and I couldn't finish it . It looks worse than Oblivion, no dense forests and less npcs around . Quests are basic fetch and kill ( literally), even Oblivion was better, except in level scaling probably.
So, what gives Codex?
 

Late Bloomer

Educated
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Apr 7, 2022
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Recently i played some Bethesda games (decline!) and that's my impression.
FO3 is good and even great! Exploration is better than NV, but not writing(it's ok though) Quests are not bad. Skyrim on the other hand sucks very much and I couldn't finish it . It looks worse than Oblivion, no dense forests and less npcs around . Quests are basic fetch and kill ( literally), even Oblivion was better, except in level scaling probably.
So, what gives Codex?

You actually think people here like either of those two games? Much less show support for Skyrim? There are like 3 of us who like Skyrim here.
 

Kainan

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Btw my favorite Beth games are Morrowind and Daggerfall( and now FO3). But Skyrim looks like total shit. I saw some FO4 videos before and it looked like heavy decline shit too.
 

Kainan

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You actually think people here like either of those two games? Much less show support for Skyrim? There are like 3 of us who like Skyrim here.
That was my impression. Skyrim is better than Oblivion etc. At least has no level scaling etc. But it's really shitty in truth.
FO3 otoh? Almost great. According to Codex? Total shit. So...
 

Wayward Son

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Fallout 3 is like if you put a dumpster fire out with liquid manure. Skyrim is like an empty plate with some meh dishes on the table but a whole kitchen of ingredients to make your own shit
 

Lemming42

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I think they're both okay games, especially modded. Skyrim mostly captures what works about Bethesda's formula and wisely encourages the player to fuck off and just explore the world on their own. Fallout 3 is much the same, but only if you manage to get over the absolute disgrace of their treatment of the Fallout setting. Harold as a tree is one of the all-time nadirs. I think Vault Dweller's review on NMA from way back in the day is pretty much right on the money.

Fo3's quest structure is often pretty solid, even if nothing that's actually happening makes any sense. Also mandatory mention of the Tenpenny Tower quest - it's not well-written, but it has the balls to subvert the player's intentions, which I don't think any other quest in any Fallout game does. Only really works on a first playthrough when you're not expecting it, but it's at least more interesting in theory than the usual Fallout quest style of "will you save this child (GOOD KARMA), or shoot them in the face (BAD KARMA)?". I also like the idea behind the Wasteland Survival Guide quest, where if you pass sufficient skill checks, you can pass the quest without actually doing anything by just bullshitting Moira and having her end up writing a completely useless book - I can't immediately think of anything similar in the other, generally much better Fallout games.
 

Fedora Master

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Fallout 3 is like if you put a dumpster fire out with liquid manure. Skyrim is like an empty plate with some meh dishes on the table but a whole kitchen of ingredients to make your own shit

More like a whole kitchen of dildos.
 

Kainan

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Fallout 3 is like if you put a dumpster fire out with liquid manure. Skyrim is like an empty plate with some meh dishes on the table but a whole kitchen of ingredients to make your own shit
Both are terrible games not worth wasting time on. The only positive thing about Skyrim is a total conversion Enderal, which is quite an alright game.

This is what I'm talking about. Often this slight praise for Skyrim (modded!) but FO3 is of course, total shit and shouldn't even be looked at.
However Skyrim seems to me even worse than Oblivion. It seems reduced in every way, even combat. But especially quests which are literally fetch and kill every one so far.
 

Konjad

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Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
This is what I'm talking about. Often this slight praise for Skyrim (modded!) but FO3 is of course, total shit and shouldn't even be looked at.
However Skyrim seems to me even worse than Oblivion. It seems reduced in every way, even combat. But especially quests which are literally fetch and kill every one so far.
Skyrim is worse than Oblivion, but so is Fallout 3.
 

Kainan

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The only problem is BoS treatment (though they try to justify it) and the writing is nothing special but not bad.

I think they're both okay games, especially modded. Skyrim mostly captures what works about Bethesda's formula and wisely encourages the player to fuck off and just explore the world on their own. Fallout 3 is much the same, but only if you manage to get over the absolute disgrace of their treatment of the Fallout setting. Harold as a tree is one of the all-time nadirs. I think Vault Dweller's review on NMA from way back in the day is pretty much right on the money.

Fo3's quest structure is often pretty solid, even if nothing that's actually happening makes any sense. Also mandatory mention of the Tenpenny Tower quest - it's not well-written, but it has the balls to subvert the player's intentions, which I don't think any other quest in any Fallout game does. Only really works on a first playthrough when you're not expecting it, but it's at least more interesting in theory than the usual Fallout quest style of "will you save this child (GOOD KARMA), or shoot them in the face (BAD KARMA)?". I also like the idea behind the Wasteland Survival Guide quest, where if you pass sufficient skill checks, you can pass the quest without actually doing anything by just bullshitting Moira and having her end up writing a completely useless book - I can't immediately think of anything similar in the other, generally much better Fallout games.
I didn't get to do that quest but Tenpenny location is great. A bunch of locations and quests are unique and memorable more so than NV. But NV has better factioning and writing. Just those intro lines in NV "maybe the Khans shoot people in the face" or how was it, is better than pretty much anything I saw in FO3.
 

Krivol

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Apr 21, 2012
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Recently i played some Bethesda games (decline!) and that's my impression.
FO3 is good and even great! Exploration is better than NV, but not writing(it's ok though) Quests are not bad. Skyrim on the other hand sucks very much and I couldn't finish it . It looks worse than Oblivion, no dense forests and less npcs around . Quests are basic fetch and kill ( literally), even Oblivion was better, except in level scaling probably.
So, what gives Codex?

Look, if F3 was named After Bombs DC and had nothing to do with Fallout, I would give it 7 or 7.5 out of 10. There are interesting places, scavenging is fun, and repair is important. Not a good RPG, but a playable game with terrible writing, stupid worldbuilding, and boring fights. But it's Fallout, the bar is set quite high and they devastated the lore.
Skyrim - OTOH - is a moddable funpark where you can go back in time to the moment when you were attacking plants with your stick, imagining that plants are dragons and your stick is a sword. It could be a better game with proper quests, better writing, worldbuilding, and a system (Requiem mod fixes that). I believe hardcore fans of Morrowing hate Skyrim (and Oblivion) much more than I do.
 

Kainan

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Isn't Oblivion that, a moddable funpark? It's more colorfull, has more forests more npcs more quests etc. I don't get how this monochromatic shit Skyrim is more popular.
 

Lemming42

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Oblivion's somehow pretty boring, maybe because the core mechanics just don't work. I do think it has some inventive quests that are conceptually cool, and better than anything in Skyrim - entering the painting, and going into the guy's dream world and shit like that - but they don't really come off. The only similarly interesting quest I remember in Skyrim is where you see the past via the body of that random priest and witness the destruction of a temple, but that doesn't quite work either.
 

Glop_dweller

Cipher
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Sep 29, 2007
Messages
977
FO3 is similar to an hypothetical sequel to Dances With Wolves—starring Sylvester Stallone and Eddie Albert, or a sequel to Book of Eli starring Wesley Snipes and Powers Boothe; both with a runtime of 80 minutes.
It does not matter what they produce, it's a Farcry from Fallout; nothing at all like it should have been.

This is why FO3 is bad; it's not like what it should of been. Its own merit never gets judged, because it loses hands down.... as it should.
 
Last edited:

JarlFrank

I like Thief THIS much
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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
I believe hardcore fans of Morrowing hate Skyrim (and Oblivion) much more than I do.

As you said, if Fallout 3 wasn't named Fallout, Fallout fans wouldn't hate it as much.

I'm a hardcore Morrowind fan and Oblivion was the worst betrayal of my entire gaming life. Never have I been as disappointed in a sequel as when Oblivion came out, and it turned me into the bitter jaded fuck I am now.
Skyrim is a step up from Oblivion, but it's still meh. The Elder Scrolls as it appeared in Morrowind is dead and gone. It will never come back. And Oblivion is to blame.

The only real continuation of The Elder Scrolls series are Tamriel Rebuilt and Project Tamriel, bigass Morrowind mod projects that implement the rest of Tamriel's landmass in Morrowind's engine, staying true to the lore established in that game.

Bethesda's official sequels are mere fan fiction. Only TR and PT are canon.
 

Robotigan

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Jan 18, 2022
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235
Theme/Funpark is referring to a very specific kind of content structure. It has nothing to do with the writing, worldbuilding, combat flow, game difficulty, etc. It only has to do with how the player is intended to navigate through the playable parts of the game. It has nothing to do with the quality either. You've probably played and enjoyed many themeparks. A themepark is a game that allows the player to freely move between content areas or "rides" but once you enter the ride you're more or less playing through a linear section in the way the developers wanted you to, i.e. enjoying the ride. This is actually a pretty good content structure that many games take advantage of because it allows developers to craft better-paced, reliably engaging levels without linearizing the entire game.

In fact a lot of RPGs use this content structure such as World of Warcraft where I think the term originated, but it's also rather prevalent in Owlcat, Bioware, and Obsidian games. Basically every RPG with heavy narrative emphasis wants to use it because it enables them to marry the flexibility of player choice with the control they need to tell intricate questline stories. Ironically, Skryim and other Bethesda titles are some of the RPGs where I don't think the descriptor works so well. You could technically apply it considering most dungeons/quests in the open world have a clearly intended route. However, considering that the term was invented to contrast WoW to older "sandboxy" MMORPGs like Ultima Online and Bethesda is about as sandboxy as single-player RPGs get, I think it's better to think of their games as not-themeparks for the sake of consistency.
 

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