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On the Codex, Fallout 3 is underrated and Skyrim is overrated

Kainan

Learned
Joined
Jul 24, 2020
Messages
191
Staticness fits Morrowind's setting, I didn't mind it. Imperial City otoh or Vegas or DC you would expect to be center of all kind of hustle and bustle.
 
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Sigourn

uooh afficionado
Joined
Feb 6, 2016
Messages
5,361
The problem is that the world is so totally static that travelling through it repeatedly offers nothing. When you've travelled on any given part of the map, you've seen everything it has to offer. The effect is a feeling of dull loneliness, like playing an MMORPG in which you're literally the only human player.
Hit the nail on the head.
The first time you go from Pelagiad to Balmora, or the second, or the third, or the hundredth: it is always the same empty road with one NPC standing to the side (infatuated woman). You can decide to go to Balmora through an alternative route, and you will be met with another NPC standing to the side (pilgrim).

But the experience is as boring as always. Walking through a game world, especially through one as ugly as Morrowind's, is not an engaging experience. An RPG should do its best to minimize the boring stuff. Playing Doom was a revelation to me because the game did not waste my time at all. Morrowind is the complete opposite. Boring walks to get to boring dungeons to engage in boring combat, all for the promise of "woah cool lore" that is just exposition dumps because you hardly see any of that lore in-game.

Why people orgasm over thousands of names and places you never get to see in-game, I will never understand. I'm a simple person with simple tastes. Fallout is more my thing, where names and locations are dropped to flesh out what needs to be fleshed out. I don't give a rat's ass about the name of the capital of Niggerfell. It's absurd that a game, which has the ability to show (as opposed to a book) decides not to.
 

Harthwain

Magister
Joined
Dec 13, 2019
Messages
3,448
Why people orgasm over thousands of names and places you never get to see in-game, I will never understand.
Because:

1) It represents potential.

2) It offers more directions for the player to pursue.

3) It isn't about exhausting all options.
 

Sigourn

uooh afficionado
Joined
Feb 6, 2016
Messages
5,361
Because:

1) It represents potential.

2) It offers more directions for the player to pursue.

3) It isn't about exhausting all options.
Yeah, the potential to get Oblivion, Skyrim, and who knows what decline will hit the series next.
 

Lemming42

Arcane
Joined
Nov 4, 2012
Messages
4,707
Location
The Satellite Of Love
The lore is the most interesting part of any post-Daggerfall TES game, it's pretty much the main draw. It's fun to learn about the world, especially the areas you don't see in the games - I always loved the weird shit said to be in Elsweyr like the different species born depending on moon cycles, and the Mane.

It's true that none of it comes across in-game though, even in Morrowind really. Morrowind nails the appearance of a cool alien landscape but the drudgery of the gameplay doesn't reflect the supposedly exciting world you inhabit. Redguard is the only one that gets it, since the gameplay and puzzles are often specifically tied to the strangeness of the world. The CHAA-ENG-MEE-BAK puzzle is the best thing that's ever been in any Elder Scrolls game and I'm not joking. The only time the gameplay of any other TES game really evokes the setting in a Redguard-ish way is when you have to levitate up the Telvanni towers in Morrowind, and perhaps the various Aetherius puzzles in Daggerfall.
 

Zlaja

Arcane
Joined
Aug 17, 2006
Messages
4,316
Location
Swedex

Beans00

Augur
Joined
Aug 27, 2008
Messages
484
The only people who like Fallout 3 played it when they were 12 and didn't know any better. Hence zoomers and young millennials on Reddit think it's a classic, and gen xers and old millennials on the Codex think it's garbage.
Kind of funny how every generation's favorite games are the ones they grew up with.



I'm born in 92. I'm probably the direct demographic oblivion targeted(within 2-3 years each way) and I thought it (and morrowind before it) were complete garbage.
Growing up Fallout 1-2 were my favorite games(my dad played them which is how I got into them) but for me they also stood out from other 90s/early 00's rpgs I played. I was too young and never played any ultima/wizardry(except 8 very briefly) and gold box games.
Fallout 3 to me, even if it didn't have the fallout name and butcher the lore/universe would have always been garbage. It's literally oblivion with guns and both end with basically a pokemon battle the player has no agency in.

Fallout 3 and Oblivion/skyrim obviously have a certain GTA style appeal. You walk around a mostly open world and do whatever you want in whatever order you want barring the main story. The characters are mostly silly and light hearted. The games are extremely easy with essentially zero challenge. Walk around do busy work kill shit. There's a fairly large demographic that wants nothing more then that from games. I have a friend I've known since highschool who basically only plays newer bethesda games(oblivion onward), GTA and online fps. He's a smart guy but when he plays games he plays them to turn his brain off and just walk around killing shit.

To me Oblivion and Fallout 3, even if they aren't the worst games in a vacuum. Probably represent the greatest decline in generational intuitiveness and intelligence. I say this as a 90s millennial but I never understood the appeal of playing games with the intention of shutting your brain off(anyone who says they need to use their brain for these games probably doesn't have much to begin with). Player agency and player choice(both in story and methods to complete objectives) always mattered to me more then anything else.


Over the years I haven't been that active on this site, but from what I understand this site was essentially built on shitting on Neverwinter Nights and Morrowind. Obviously people, opinions, demographics change but whenever I see someone saying they enjoy Fallout 3 or Skyrim or Dragon age or whatever other garbage the AAA rpg market spit out since the early 00's, I always think they took a wrong turn and ended up here by accident.
 

Pound Meat

Cipher
Joined
Aug 10, 2018
Messages
4,737
Location
Flavortown
Recently i played some Bethesda games (decline!) and that's my impression.
FO3 is good and even great! Exploration is better than NV, but not writing(it's ok though) Quests are not bad. Skyrim on the other hand sucks very much and I couldn't finish it . It looks worse than Oblivion, no dense forests and less npcs around . Quests are basic fetch and kill ( literally), even Oblivion was better, except in level scaling probably.
So, what gives Codex?
Don't let the NPCs get you down. Fallout 3 on PS3 was amazing. I had the game of the year edition so I got the UFO dlc and other stuff (unfortunately my system died before I could play it all) and it was amazing, certainly better than glitchy New Vegas.
 

Sykar

Arcane
Joined
Dec 2, 2014
Messages
10,938
Location
Turn right after Alpha Centauri
FO 3 was an unmitigated disaster. The story was completely nonsensical, and the world building was utterly trite, unimaginative and retarded. RPG elements became worthless because all characters end up maxing most stats and skills. It is ugly as sin and the main character is not even you, it is your daddy Liam Neeson who won't denounce you even if you just nuke an entire town, merely tells you that he is... disappointed. What a joke that game is.
 

SharkClub

Prophet
Patron
Joined
May 27, 2010
Messages
1,096
Strap Yourselves In
Fallout 3 and Oblivion are both soulless lore rape simulators. Skyrim is unironically and easily incline from them, even Fallout 4 is incline from them.

If you want a shallow but comfy slut dress up game with a gorillion mods and light RPG gameplay you play Skyrim and Fallout 4. If you want a good RPG with deep mechanics or a good story then you play anything but Fallout 3 or Oblivion. The two games serve no purpose alongside their peers (even if you don't count New Vegas and Morrowind) and are just agents of decline.
 

Sigourn

uooh afficionado
Joined
Feb 6, 2016
Messages
5,361
Well put. I don't know why anyone would play Oblivion and Fallout 3 over Skyrim and Fallout 4. The only reasonable answer is that they think their games are "hardcore" compared to them, but clearly the players aren't "hardcore" enough to play Morrowind Fallout.

Emphasis on the use of the word "hardcore" here. Don't want anyone to think I think there's anything hardcore about playing Fallout or Morrowind.
 

Ironmonk

Savant
Joined
Sep 29, 2014
Messages
378
Location
Mordor
The first bethesda game I played was Fallout 3 and I quite liked it... and it had a lot of mods and I started my nexus account to delve a little into "mod mining".

Then came Skyrim, it was fucking amazing!!! and mods... I delved deeper on "mod mining" to the point I probably spent 3x more of my time looking for mods, testing, tweaking (and also trying to make small mods to adjust a couple of things) than playing the game... then I almost grew completely tired of the gamebryo games...

A few years later, I tried Fallout New Vegas with a package of mods (more or less integrated) and again, I spent more time dealing with mods than playing the game.... I dropped it in the middle of a playthrough and NEVER tried another bethesda game. (yeah, I know it was made by other studio, but still the same engine).

And the thing is, it didn't matter how many mods I added, it felt empty and pointless all the same... always missing features that even modders couldn't add.

In the end, I rectified my impressions:
- Fallout 3 = Shit
- Skyrim = Shit coated with chocolate
- Fallout New Vegas = Shit with a cherry on top
 

Vic

Educated
Joined
Oct 24, 2018
Messages
654
I liked Skyrim as a walking sim, listening to audiobooks in the background. Imo it still looks good and it's a chill place to escape to.

Fallout 3? Dunno, I think it's just an inferior Fallout 4. It's nice to have FPS RPGs I guess.
 
Unwanted
Joined
Jan 14, 2018
Messages
50,711
Codex Year of the Donut
listening to audiobooks in the background
reminded me of one of my biggest pet peeves of these games
they expect you to stop and read all the notes/books instead of having them voiced, easily the part of the games that could most use voice acting

pick them up and have the game narrate it to you while you keep going
 

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