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On the Codex, Fallout 3 is underrated and Skyrim is overrated

Butter

Arcane
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The only people who like Fallout 3 played it when they were 12 and didn't know any better. Hence zoomers and young millennials on Reddit think it's a classic, and gen xers and old millennials on the Codex think it's garbage.
 

Robotigan

Learned
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Jan 18, 2022
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The only people who like Fallout 3 played it when they were 12 and didn't know any better. Hence zoomers and young millennials on Reddit think it's a classic, and gen xers and old millennials on the Codex think it's garbage.
Kind of funny how every generation's favorite games are the ones they grew up with.
 

Glop_dweller

Prophet
Joined
Sep 29, 2007
Messages
1,188
The only people who like Fallout 3 played it when they were 12 and didn't know any better. Hence zoomers and young millennials on Reddit think it's a classic, and gen xers and old millennials on the Codex think it's garbage.
Kind of funny how every generation's favorite games are the ones they grew up with.
Not always so. I bought Oblivion when it released—because they had announced FO3. I had never heard of Bethesda before. I was very impressed with Oblivion... until exiting the starter dungeon, and interacting with the world's NPCs.
Even then it never occurred to be that they would make another Oblivion clone instead of a proper Fallout title. I was impressed with the engine, and had seen it used for Kohan: Kings of War, and with Loki, so I knew it could handle the Fallout series. Then they released those awful screenshots, and we all knew that the predictions were going to be spot on. :(

FO3_prediction.jpg


As for Elder Scrolls... I had never heard of the series at all. When I discovered them, I found out that I liked them best in reverse order; each one better than the next.

It's not nostalgia, it's the wrong people leaving the studio, and the wrong people replacing them. Their products get worse with every iteration.
 
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EtcEtcEtc

Savant
Joined
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Messages
404
The only people who like Fallout 3 played it when they were 12 and didn't know any better. Hence zoomers and young millennials on Reddit think it's a classic, and gen xers and old millennials on the Codex think it's garbage.

Fallout 3 isn't a classic but it's also not the abortion so many here make it out.

People hate it because they act as if it's existence is an affront to the original games -which are still there- and kept Van Buren or some idealized form of Van Buren from existing - which it didn't. Before Fallout 3 the last Fallout game was Brotherhood of Steel for Playstation 2. There was going to be a Brotherhood of Steel 2. Fallout 3 is objectively better.
 

Late Bloomer

Scholar
Joined
Apr 7, 2022
Messages
3,062
Played some more Skyrim today. What a bunch of fetch quests. Bring a guy a drink, take a potion across the street, some guy lost a sword. I can't take much more of this shit. And these vikings all look alike i can't tell who's who. The houses all look the same too.
Two of the three quests you mentioned are given by redguards. The other is the court mage who unless you modded it has a hood on that covers everything but his face. He is the only NPC in Whiterun that uses a robe. If you are talking about the rest of the Nords, then you are also wrong. There is a large variety of looks both in skin tone, hairstyle and overall shape. And yet all the vikings look alike? How about giving it an honest effort? If by the houses looking the same you mean the materials used to build them, yes they do. As the should. Otherwise, each house/establishment in Whiterun is actually a unique interior and not copied from any other Whiterun house/establishment. You simply couldnt be more wrong.
 

Glop_dweller

Prophet
Joined
Sep 29, 2007
Messages
1,188
People hate it because they act as if it's existence is an affront to the original games -which are still there- and kept Van Buren or some idealized form of Van Buren from existing - which it didn't.
For my part it is simply not appropriate gameplay for the series, and poor writing, humor, and quest design... It's not Fallout.

It's quite simply a case of 'One of these kids is not like the other one':


Before Fallout 3 the last Fallout game was Brotherhood of Steel for Playstation 2. There was going to be a Brotherhood of Steel 2. Fallout 3 is objectively better.
FO3 is objectively a sequel to FOBOS.
 
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Jack Of Owls

Arcane
Joined
May 23, 2014
Messages
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Location
Massachusettes
At least I was able to finish FO3 and Oblivion because they seemed so novel at the time and I approached them as open world 1st-person action/adventure games rather than RPGs. By the time Skyrim came along I was already bored with all things vanilla Gamebryo and even FNV seemed a little stale though I did go on to enjoy these games modded. However, I didn't even finish my recent attempt at a playthrough of Viva New Vegas. Just shows you. Going to give Kingdom Come Deliverance a go now that I have a card that can handle the HD pack properly.
 

Jack Of Owls

Arcane
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Messages
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Location
Massachusettes
The only people who like Fallout 3 played it when they were 12 and didn't know any better. Hence zoomers and young millennials on Reddit think it's a classic, and gen xers and old millennials on the Codex think it's garbage.

Fallout 3 isn't a classic but it's also not the abortion so many here make it out.

People hate it because they act as if it's existence is an affront to the original games -which are still there- and kept Van Buren or some idealized form of Van Buren from existing - which it didn't. Before Fallout 3 the last Fallout game was Brotherhood of Steel for Playstation 2. There was going to be a Brotherhood of Steel 2. Fallout 3 is objectively better.
That's the bottom line: too much emotional baggage and that spergy sense of the betrayal for most codexers to ever like FO3. On its own, it was an okay open world game once separated from the canon of the original fallout games.
 

Lemming42

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The Satellite Of Love
Fo3's problem isn't necessarily violating Fallout canon/lore (let's be real, Fallout 2 already took a big shit all over the setting and tone of Fallout) but the fact none of it makes sense on its own. Personally I could handle the various inconsistencies with the previous games if it was a well-written story on its own merits, but it's a big clusterfuck, the apex of which is a gigantic running battle through the streets of Washington between two factions who have the exact same goal in mind (turn on the purifier). The BoS splinter cell insist that the purifier must be turned on. Autumn, having taken over the Enclave, insists that the purifier must be turned on. His motivation for this is completely unclear, and - given that he doesn't have the modified FEV, nor was necessarily even aware of it - seems to just be altruism and a genuine desire to introduce fresh water to the Wasteland, same as BoS. Because both sides are in full agreement, a brutal war breaks out during which the BoS deploy a super-mech. The war ends when a 19 year old walks into the besieged purifier and tells Autumn to stand down, which he does, stepping aside to allow the youngster to turn on the purifier, which he was about to do himself. That's the tip of the iceberg, of course - you've also got stuff like the Super Mutants reproducing by dragging captives to their vault, even though it's an entire plot point that humans can't enter the vault without being fried by radiation, and the only other way in is a secret back entrance that's been successfully guarded by kids for 200 years (and it's not explained how these kids replenish their numbers), etc.

To be honest, people overstate the actual incosistencies between Fo3 and the other games anyway - Lyons' Pride is explained in-universe, both by Elder Lyons himself and by the Outcasts (aka the real BoS). The presence of Super Mutants is explained, and why they're more violent and less intelligent than the Master's army. The presence of another Enclave cell on the other side of the country is explained, and there's nothing in Fallout 2 that directly suggests such a thing can't exist. The problem isn't that it doesn't fit into the Fallout setting, it's that all this content is really badly written and oftentimes feels like the writers are desperately forcing it in because they're meant to be making a Fallout game, but stripping it of all context in the process - the BoS must be there because they're "iconic", but we want to write a story about paladins vs orcs, so we'll have to make them a splinter group who believe in a strict code of honour. We need Super Mutants because they're another thing that people remember from Fallout, but again, we want to write about paladins vs orcs, so we'll make them orcs (with a shoddy "oh yeah, there was a bit of FEV sent to a vault on the other side of the nation, but it was shittier FEV" explanation). We want the Enclave because they looked cool in Fo2, but they were destroyed in that game, so we'll say "aahhh well Malcolm MacDowell has his own special group across the country". Iconography taken from Fallout but drained of all meaning and forced into one-dimensional, tonally wrong cardboard cutouts of themselves.
 

luj1

You're all shills
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The only people who like Fallout 3 played it when they were 12 and didn't know any better. Hence zoomers and young millennials on Reddit think it's a classic, and gen xers and old millennials on the Codex think it's garbage.

Its garbage because its garbage
 

wishbonetail

Learned
Joined
Oct 18, 2021
Messages
671
Most settlements in F3 don't grow anything and do not have livestock save for that single brahmin in Megaton. How do they live in Megaton around a radiactive bomb and what do they eat? IDK
You wouldn't want to live in a tower when everyone and their mom has rocket launcher. How does Tenpenny tower still stands? IDK.
Little lamplight is a cave inhabited for hundreds of years by moss-eating, inbread children, but still they look human. How's that possible? IDK.
Rivet city is a rusted sea vessel in a radioactive water, whith rocket launchin mutants in the vicinity, with nothing to eat and drink. They all should be dead. How do they still alive?. IDK
Big city. There is literary nothing in there, aside from couple of ruins, no farms, no livestock, no nothing. But still these teens do have time for their teen problems. Is that plausible? IDK
Arefu is a couple of huts on a bridge. G'luck hauling water all the way up there. No pipes from river, no farms, no power, and their main problem is twilight vampires. How do they live? IDK

F3 is enjoyable if you are braindead.
Skyrim is not much better. Most of the armor and clothes in the game is from some porn movie. When i saw a guard in a chain mail t-shirt on his bare body, smith in leather straps, called armor, flashing his manly nipples, woman in evening dress in blistering cold jumping into the pond on her way to work, I just uninstalled that shit.

Okay, kudos to Bethesda for trying to transfer Fallout to 3d but F3 is just a template for New Vegas.
 
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Duraframe300

Arcane
Joined
Dec 21, 2010
Messages
6,395
Most settlements in F3 don't grow anything and do not have livestock save for that single brahmin in Megaton. How do they live in Megaton around a radiactive bomb and what do they eat? IDK
Or you know, just the pure fact that after all the time the settlement has been up the bomb is just laying there in the middle of town, naked and accessible to everyone . And on top of that they immediately instruct some random douchebag that just walked into town with disarming it.

Most of my *attempts* to play F3 just end right there.
 

Kainan

Learned
Joined
Jul 24, 2020
Messages
191
Played some more Skyrim today. What a bunch of fetch quests. Bring a guy a drink, take a potion across the street, some guy lost a sword. I can't take much more of this shit. And these vikings all look alike i can't tell who's who. The houses all look the same too.
Two of the three quests you mentioned are given by redguards. The other is the court mage who unless you modded it has a hood on that covers everything but his face. He is the only NPC in Whiterun that uses a robe. If you are talking about the rest of the Nords, then you are also wrong. There is a large variety of looks both in skin tone, hairstyle and overall shape. And yet all the vikings look alike? How about giving it an honest effort? If by the houses looking the same you mean the materials used to build them, yes they do. As the should. Otherwise, each house/establishment in Whiterun is actually a unique interior and not copied from any other Whiterun house/establishment. You simply couldnt be more wrong.
You are crazy. The game is a castrated Oblivion in every way, from the interface to even graphics. And I'm supposed to give it an honest effort when the devs didn't give any either. FO3 every quest was at least minimally interesting but here they couldn't care less so why would I.
 

Kainan

Learned
Joined
Jul 24, 2020
Messages
191
Houses all do look the same that's the first thing I noticed. Like these vikings didn't invent paint yet. Even the inn/store signs thats supposed to draw attention have zero colors on them.
 

Serus

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Jul 16, 2005
Messages
6,717
Location
Small but great planet of Potatohole
FO3 is similar to an hypothetical sequel to Dances With Wolves—starring Sylvester Stallone and Eddie Albert, or a sequel to Book of Eli starring Wesley Snipes and Powers Boothe; both with a runtime of 80 minutes.
It does not matter what they produce, it's a Farcry from Fallout; nothing at all like it should have been.

This is why FO3 is bad; it's not like what it should of been. Its own merit never gets judged, because it loses hands down.... as it should.
Suggesting that Book of Eli was a good movie...
I'd gladly see a Book of Eli version with Sylvester Stallone and Wesley Snipes (Sly as the good guy of curse). Running 80 minutes. Chances are good that it would be better than the original. If I think more about it, this Costner movie could use the same treatment, overrated as 100 fucks.
 

Zibniyat

Arcane
Joined
Jun 22, 2014
Messages
6,536
Recently i played some Bethesda games (decline!) and that's my impression.
FO3 is good and even great! Exploration is better than NV, but not writing(it's ok though) Quests are not bad. Skyrim on the other hand sucks very much and I couldn't finish it . It looks worse than Oblivion, no dense forests and less npcs around . Quests are basic fetch and kill ( literally), even Oblivion was better, except in level scaling probably.
So, what gives Codex?

I am glad to see someone recognising how even in graphics department Skyrim was a step backward in at least some areas (foliage and general flora being such cases). Quests too, Skyrim's one were atrocious, fetch/kill quests.
 

Ravielsk

Magister
Joined
Feb 20, 2021
Messages
1,561
The problem is that both FO3 and Skyrim are sort of threshold games that are on the very edge of awful despite being made up of all the right ingredients to be great. Had Bethesda actually analyzed them honestly (a.k.a not based on some slapdash review of the first ten hours) they could have easily pulled back and made exceptional games using just what was in both games with relatively minimal effort. In fact with FO3 we got exactly that with New Vegas where a bunch of fairly minimalist edits to the core FO3 mechanics turned the game into a (arguable) masterpiece. And that was done in 18 months(more like 15 but whatever) on a minimal budget.

Problem is that Bethesda never pulled back because they base their design ethos on dishonest feedback from journos who play the first 10 hours(poorly might I add) and do not even attempt to speculate how the game might be in the following 10. So instead they kept making more and more games that have decent-ish first ten hours but completely fall apart after that because nothing is really made or designed for any kind of long term engagement. So their games became this schizophrenic mess that is no good beyond the ten hour mark and are best in small chunks with multiple characters but are simultaneously made to be finished on one singular character. FO76 was the ultimate end result of this where the game is straight up garbage because its gameplay loop is not good for even those 10 hours. And I suspect that Starfield will be no better.
 

Stoned Ape

Savant
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Jan 9, 2018
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The belly of the whale
I've played neither and am totally satisfied by my decision. I'm just here to offer my sympathy to those less fortunate than I who have been subjected to such a horrific experience, especially those who seem to be suffering a weird variant of stockholm syndrome caused by their trauma. Hope you guys get better soon!
 

Kainan

Learned
Joined
Jul 24, 2020
Messages
191
No. FO3 was great even then. I only didn't play bc Codex said it was shit. Skyrim otoh is just total shit
 

EtcEtcEtc

Savant
Joined
Jan 16, 2017
Messages
404
People hate it because they act as if it's existence is an affront to the original games -which are still there- and kept Van Buren or some idealized form of Van Buren from existing - which it didn't.
For my part it is simply not appropriate gameplay for the series, and poor writing, humor, and quest design... It's not Fallout.
That's fine but there's a huge gap between the reality which is that it's a medicore game - and the general opinion round here which is that it's THE WORST GAME EVER.

It's absolutely a game wearing a Fallout suit, Bethesda just took the surface level stuff - and it absolutely has medicore writing humor and quest design. But the reason for all the vitriol isn't that it's medicore, it's that it's FALLOUT AND HOW DAR ETHEY

Many of y'all - not all, mind you - but many of y'all are unable to critically engage with anything. It's either all shit or it's "incline".

Also, I find it funny that the same people who hate Oblivion/Fallout 3/Skyrim are the same people who champion Morrowind and act like there's this huge gap in quality between them. There isn't. Morrowind is just the other games without the quest compasses.
 

Lemming42

Arcane
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Messages
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The Satellite Of Love
You're about to be killed for saying that last part, but it's true, I've said it on here before. The only difference is that Morrowind's worldbuilding is leagues ahead of the rest, but in terms of actual gameplay, it's identical - walking around a huge world with fuck-all of interest in it, doing mundane quests, raiding copypaste dungeons over and over, and becoming unstoppable by level 5 (about an hour and a half into the game). I'm not really sure at this point why Morrowind is often held apart from the Oblivion/Fo3/Skyrim set of games when it's cast in the exact same mould and plays the exact same. At best, it's the FNV to Skyrim's Fo3.
 

Harthwain

Magister
Joined
Dec 13, 2019
Messages
4,904
"Skyrim is overrated"? On Codex? Obvious troll is obvious.
 

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